The best ruler of the Indian Subcontinent - Aurangzeb Alamgir

[W.11]

How many work of literature was written during their time ?

what i know of the muslim rulers is, for the firast time in indian history did a guy from a different faith tried to preserve the lterature of another faith, for instance, ramayana, mahabharatha were translated from sanskrit into persian, hence unparallelled in the indian history, this happened, the muslim rulers gave india the gift of history, which was noot the case in pre islamic period of india.

COmpared to muslim rulers, how many buddhist texts were preserved in india itself before the muslims came?, we know that pali literature only survived in burma and srilanka, the mahayana texts survived in china and tibet, but india where most of these texts were compiled totally vanished. (most of these buddhist text now provide valuable information regarding early indian historiography)

Similar thing happened to all the non brahmanical literature of prakrits which seldom survive and only sanskrit literature was preserved by the hindus, we speak predominantly a language whose ancestor was prakrit/middle indo aryan, so how come a hindu talks about literature, when his hindu ancestors didn't preserve his own mother tongue literature and preferred an alien sanskrit, now compare that to muslims who were the first writters in khariboli, the oldest literature of hindi/urdu presevred in india is probably the literature of amir khusrow.

Brahmanical hindu fanatics were so abhored by vernacular prakrits, that they considered it a low level language compared to much refined sanskrit, it is because of the muslim rulers that the vernacular literature even survived.

regards

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

@Andhadhun I think we agree on some points and disagree on some points. Let's leave it at that. But I appreciate your various points of views and especially your knowledge especially with regards to history.

 

[Andhadhun]

Naseeruddin Shah has a Hindu wife. He didn't convert her. Javed Akhtar has talked against Islam plenty of times.

Then why does Naseeruddin shah's children have ARABIC names ?

Javed Akhtar talking against Islam was in his own defense. But speaking up for islam and its heroes was for his communities defense. NOT in the defense of TRUTH. Notice the difference ?

I see your point. Some Middle Eastern countries are discriminatory and people should start voicing their concerns about their discriminatory laws. But we don't have a strong UN and since those countries are just independent entities, we can't do anything about it for now.

They certainly deserve a fair trial.

This has nothing to do with the UN.

It has everything to do with our culture of abandoning Hindus during time of trouble. Not having a spine to stand up for our own people.

Forget fair trial, they do not even have a fair voice speaking up for them.

what i know of the muslim rulers is, for the firast time in indian history did a guy from a different faith tried to preserve the lterature of another faith, for instance, ramayana, mahabharatha were translated from sanskrit into persian, hence unparallelled in the indian history, this happened, the muslim rulers gave india the gift of history, which was noot the case in pre islamic period of india.

WRONG.

Muslims invaders BURNT our books on history, schools, Universities and LIberaries. Only a few like the Rajatarangini or Mushika-Vamsha survived.

Sanskrit literature survived due to the oral tradition and the widespread use of sanskrit PAN India.

Copy pasting and stealing Hindu literature is not creating a legacy.

COmpared to muslim rulers, how many buddhist texts were preserved in india itself before the muslims came?, we know that pali literature only survived in burma and srilanka, the mahayana texts survived in china and tibet, but india where most of these texts were compiled totally vanished. (most of these buddhist text now provide valuable information regarding early indian historiography)

WRONG. Buddhist texts survived because most of them had copies OUTSIDE India. Outside the path of the barbaric muslim invaders.

Non of the survived in India. Hindu scriptures had a better survival rate due to oral tradition as a backup.

Similar thing happened to all the non brahmanical literature of prakrits which seldom survive and only sanskrit literature was preserved by the hindus, we speak predominantly a language whose ancestor was prakrit/middle indo aryan, so how come a hindu talks about literature, when his hindu ancestors didn't preserve his own mother tongue literature and preferred an alien sanskrit, now compare that to muslims who were the first writters in khariboli, the oldest literature of hindi/urdu presevred in india is probably the literature of amir khusrow.

Sanskrit literally means the language of the learned. So naturally all literature were in sanskrit.

Parkrit literally means the language of the layman or poor sanskrit. Like Malayalam or Bengali or Pali.

There is nothing Alien about sanskrit.

Brahmanical hindu fanatics were so abhored by vernacular prakrits, that they considered it a low level language compared to much refined sanskrit, it is because of the muslim rulers that the vernacular literature even survived.

regards

Prakrit was a low level language and that it has nothing to do with "brahmins". Folk songs and ballards are not Literature. That is what survived in the absence of any real works.

It is nauseating to hear you speak blatant lies and Hinduphobic propaganda as history.

 

[Behram Khilji]

It was thanks to Aurangzeb that Mughals rule ended.

His bigotry was what helped Hindus finally realize that it was unacceptable to have Muslims rule. Before him, the Mughals were relatively religiously tolerant and that is why they survived.

I think all Indians owe Aurangzeb a debt. If he had not turned out to be the old version of the Taliban, Hindus would not have rebelled as they did.

True Hindus found it unacceptable to have Muslim rule, so like always another foreign force came to take over, this time the British.

Do tell me where did the actual Hindu benefit in this to lead his her own destiny?

 

[W.11]

WRONG.

Muslims invaders BURNT our books on history, schools, Universities and LIberaries. Only a few like the Rajatarangini or Mushika-Vamsha survived.

Sanskrit literature survived due to the oral tradition and the widespread use of sanskrit PAN India.

Copy pasting and stealing Hindu literature is not creating a legacy.

that what im asking, how did only hindu literature survive and not any composition made by the buddhists? it shows that indian literature was mainly hindu religion driven, rest of the non hindu literature didn't survive because brahmins/hindu kings were not keen on preserving non hindu literature. Rajatarangini, do you know was translated by the muslim rulers, so much of bad muslims.

A Persian translation of Rajatarangini was commissioned by Zain-ul-Abidin, who ruled Kashmir in the 15th century CE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajatarangini#Translations

So muslims were not selective when it came to literature, they were not selective on preserving only islamic literature while they discarded all non muslim literature

regards

Prakrit was a low level language and that it has nothing to do with "brahmins". Folk songs and ballards are not Literature. That is what survived in the absence of any real works.

It is nauseating to hear you speak blatant lies and Hinduphobic propaganda as history.

Prakrit was a courtly language so surely it was not the language which was so low as to have only composed folk songs, but it was the sanskrit which underplayed the importance of the language because the language was being used by lower castes compared to the brahmins, most of the earliest indian inscriptions are in prakrits, why? just because few literary works survive doent mean that prakrit was pushed aside as a low language/ unsuitable for any literary work, what about buddhist philosophical works, mostly written in parkrits, what about jain literature, how such a low language was able to compose such high level philosophical work?

here is milinda panha, considered as one of the finest literary works from classical india, how such a low level language was able to make such high level philosophical contribution?

it seems to show that a big chunk of indian literature/secular ones was lost because of hindu fanatic brahmanical india.

regards

 

[Andhadhun]

True Hindus found it unacceptable to have Muslim rule, so like always another foreign force come to take over, this time the British.

Do tell me where did the actual Hindu benefit in this to lead his her own destiny?

British did immense damage but their rule gave Hindus time to consolidate, understand and plan for a better future. It also it weakened Islamic rule permanently over India ensuring Hindus could establish self governance without a major risk of loosing it ever again. This was the biggest and greatest gain.

It also give Hindus an opportunity to reform the ills that had crept into the society and culture and practices. To go back to the basics of Hinduism and rebuild from there.

Maybe these would have been possible under the Maratha empire too, but that is speculation.

 

[Robbie]

True Hindus found it unacceptable to have Muslim rule, so like always another foreign force come to take over, this time the British.

Do tell me where did the actual Hindu benefit in this to lead his her own destiny?

As a Hindu, we don't use the word 'true Hindu'. Using 'true' Hindu means there's an opposite as well which is derogatory to people. Secondly, who defines what a 'true' Hindu is and dish out labels?

For the topic at hand. The Marathas took over from the Mughals and the British took over from the Marathas. It's a chain and evolution of thought that ultimately led to another fight with the British and ultimately led to Indians choosing democracy for running the nation.

That's the real outcome of this. The chain of thought and struggle that led almost all Indians to conclude that the will of the people is final. We don't have rulers any more. We have Governments. That's why when one person - Indira Gandhi - decided to become the next 'ruler' of India and become a dictator, the country stopped her almost immediately.

 

[Behram Khilji]

British did immense damage but their rule gave Hindus time to consolidate, understand and plan for a better future. It also it weakened Islamic rule permanently over India ensuring Hindus could establish self governance without a major risk of loosing it ever again. This was the biggest and greatest gain.

It also give Hindus an opportunity to reform the ills that had crept into the society and culture and practices. To go back to the basics of Hinduism and rebuild from there.

Maybe these would have been possible under the Maratha empire too, but that is speculation.

Maybe so, but before the British there were Muslims & Before them were Rajput's another foreign invader group like Gujjaras, Kushans etc.

All in all where did the local Hindu benefit and & how was he the master of his destiny.

Yes British were very bad, they didn't allow wives to be burnt with bodies if husbands, they gave you modern education, industry & railway.

They were so bad, that to this day every Indian dreams of being in Britain.

As a Hindu, we don't use the word 'true Hindu'. Using 'true' Hindu means there's an opposite as well which is derogatory to people. Secondly, who defines what a 'true' Hindu is and dish out labels?

For the topic at hand. The Marathas took over from the Mughals and the British took over from the Marathas. It's a chain and evolution of thought that ultimately led to another fight with the British and ultimately led to Indians choosing democracy for running the nation.

That's the real outcome of this. The chain of thought and struggle that led almost all Indians to conclude that the will of the people is final. We don't have rulers any more. We have Governments. That's why when one person - Indira Gandhi - decided to become the next 'ruler' of India and become a dictator, the country stopped her almost immediately.

No such thing as a true or better Hindu but hundreds of castes are just for the fun of it, wow.

 

[W.11]

There is nothing Alien about sanskrit.

how many people today speak sanskrit in india, even the brahmin majority doesnt speak sanskrit today, let alone the 1.3 billion indians, so for indians, sanskrit s practically an alien language, even during ancient period, no one spoke sanskrit, only upper caste brahmins did.

regards

 

[Andhadhun]

that what im asking, how did only hindu literature survive and not any composition made by the buddhists? it shows that indian literature was mainly hindu religion driven, rest of the non hindu literature didn't survive because brahmins/hindu kings were not keen on preserving non hindu literature. Rajatarangini, do you know was translated by the muslim rulers, so much of bad muslims.

Oral tradition and due to singular effort of Raja Bhoj who choose to consolidate Hindu scriptures and literature and texts.

Buddhist converted to islam, Hindus did not. Converts had no need to protect and save their texts. Hindus did even when they were alone. (brahmins).

So what if muslim copy pasted rajatarangini ? Does that absolve them of destroying millions of other books ?

How dare you blame the Hindus for the sins of the muslim invaders. Hindus did not have the concept of "iconoclast" or destroying others work of art and literature.

So muslims were not selective when it came to literature, they were not selective on preserving only islamic literature while they discarded all non muslim literature

What islamic literature ?

Prakrit was a courtly language so surely it was not the language which was so low as to have only composed folk songs, but it was the sanskrit which underplayed the importance of the language because the language was being used by lower castes compared to the brahmins, most of the earliest indian inscriptions are in prakrits, why? just because few literary works survive doent mean that prakrit was pushed aside as a low language/ unsuitable for any literary work, what about buddhist philosophical works, mostly written in parkrits, what about jain literature, how such a low language was able to compose such high level philosophical works?

There is no language called Prakrit. The very fact that you claim such a language shows your ignorance.

It is a name given to set of CRUDE SANSKRIT texts with poor spelling and poor grammar and intermingling of various vernacular words. Work of non scholars or poorly educated men.

Sanskrit was the language of scholars. Of men of learning. Nothing to do with caste since all the three castes were diwija and learnt sanskrit.

There is nothing "high level" about buddhist philosophy and discourses. They are just Hindu philosophy dumbed down for the common man.

here is milinda panha, considered as one of the finest literary works from classical india, how such a low level language was able to make such high level philosophical works?

it seems to show that a big chunk of indian literature/secular ones was lost because of hindu fanatic brahmanical india.

regards

Milind Panha is just another buddhist text in the form of a conversation between a buddhist sage and a king. The style copied from Hindu puranas all of which are in the form of various conversations.

LOL at calling it "finest literary work". Only a fool or a propagandist would call it that.

Brahmins are not muslims. They are educated peaceful men who shun non veg and life a chaste life. To accuse time of destroying anything is laughable. Its downrigh pathetic.

 

[W.11]

No such thing as a true or better Hindu but hundreds of castes are just for the fun of it, wow.

lower castes weren't even allowed to enter the temple, from one video about teli ka mandir, i learnt that how there were water sprouts installed outside the temple so that the ''sacred holy'' water which hindus used inside temple to wash linga or something could reach the lower caste without them needing to enter the temple.

regards

 

[Andhadhun]

how many people today speak sanskrit in india, even the brahmin majority doesnt speak sanskrit today, let alone the 1.3 billion indians, so for indians, sanskrit s practically an alien language, even during ancient period, no one spoke sanskrit, only upper caste brahmins did.

regards

Nobody speaks Latin either. Same with Aramaic. That does not make them Alien.

Does not mean no one spoke latin or Aramaic in the past. Again a foolish claim prompted by prejudice and hate. All education in India was in sanskrit and all the three caste got educated.

lower castes weren't even allowed to enter the temple, from one video about teli ka mandir, i learnt that how there were water sprouts installed outside the temple so that the ''sacred holy'' water which hindus used inside temple to wash linga or something could reach the lower caste without them needing to enter the temple.

regards

Dalits are not lower caste. They are OUT castes.

 

[Sharma Ji]

how many people today speak sanskrit in india, even the brahmin majority doesnt speak sanskrit today, let alone the 1.3 billion indians, so for indians, sanskrit s practically an alien language, even during ancient period, no one spoke sanskrit, only upper caste brahmins did.

regards

After the BJP came to power in 2014, there has been a great sanskrit revivalism. They're doing a lot, culturally, and promoting our heritage. Most of it never makes the news apart from some leftists venting their rage on twitter. and trying to spin everything negatively.

 

[Robbie]

British did immense damage but their rule gave Hindus time to consolidate, understand and plan for a better future. It also it weakened Islamic rule permanently over India ensuring Hindus could establish self governance without a major risk of loosing it ever again. This was the biggest and greatest gain.

It also give Hindus an opportunity to reform the ills that had crept into the society and culture and practices. To go back to the basics of Hinduism and rebuild from there.

Maybe these would have been possible under the Maratha empire too, but that is speculation.

I actually think that British slowed down the process of reversion to the basics of Hinduism. Though speculation, I think that process would have been far faster under Marathas.

To contextualize, since independence, the reduction of caste consciousness and discrimination has been slow. Though political parties have, of course, done as much as possible to fan differences, I'd venture it really only picked up post-2000s with the emergence of new industries (Indians from all over working together) and Indians travelling a lot within the country (for education and jobs). This reduction of physical and mental distances has led to a large number of inter-caste marriages.

 

[W.11]

There is nothing "high level" about buddhist philosophy and discourses. They are just Hindu philosophy dumbed down for the common man.

your abhorance for your own fellow indians, declaring them as common men and the abhorance for the buddhist/non hindu brahmanical literature just proves my point, majority of indian literary tradition was based on prakrits, which were the courtly languages and the languages where most secular indian works were composed in, a tradition which is now almost extinct except few examples, thats one of the reasons why all the history of india is lost beccause only brahmanical works got preserved and the secular works didn't.

Hegemony of sanskrit came later with hegemony of brahmins when it replaces prakrits of the earlier periods.

regards

Nobody speaks Latin either. Same with Aramaic. That does not make them Alien.

latin is the language of christianity, and so is sanskrit for hindu brahman religion.

most of the annals, secular works, courtly works in europe were composed in their vernacular languages like english, french etc.

regards

After the BJP came to power in 2014, there has been a great sanskrit revivalism. They're doing a lot, culturally, and promoting our heritage. Most of it never makes the news apart from some leftists venting their rage on twitter. and trying to spin everything negatively.

ofcourse BJP will, as it promotes hindu nationalism, and its chief language sanskrit.

regards