The Benefits of an Indo-Pak Alliance

[amarnath]

@ amarnath....

the truth has till today INDIA is not over the fact that PAKISTAN is a country.....the day you accept that i think the biggest of our problems would be behind us!!! INDIA thinks by giving us our DUE share of the WATER & LAND it is actually doing us a FAVOUR...it is not!!! it is like BRITISH go around telling all the colonies you should be grateful we gave you INDEPENDANCE!!


@ muse

well our leaders are corrupt and that cannot be changed in the 60s the situation was diffrent.....we have the potential to become EQUALS but its all about some good leaders...however all PAKISTANIS are left saying is WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL....our leaders are corrupt and inept!!! all we need is a revolution!!! all we need is a decade with a good leader and we will be leading the world....

however, people like you and me sir just talk...that is the problem of pakistanis NONE of the pakistanis are nationalistic in practical but are only in the "heart & mind"

i guess that diffrence lies in the NRIs(non resident indians) and Non Resident Pakistanis.....

Sir I say If Every Indian and pakistani think like you do.. we would have been the superpower ages ago... But Not only pakistani leaders are currept, so are your Indian counterparts..lol.... Good to hear that from you...

 

[A1Kaid]

I once read the book "Kashmir: The Storm Center of the World" by Indian nationalist and intellectual Raj Madhok.

In chapter 12 "The Chinese Factor", he made a very interesting point about the Sino-Indian War, and how Pakistan could have formed a friendship with India at the time...


An excerpt from Raj Madhok's book "Kashmir: The Storm Center of the World"




"As the Chinese offensive mounted and India's unpreparedness became woefully exposed, the government of India was forced to request the USA, the UK and other friendly countries for help to meet the Communist advance. Realizing the magnitude of the threat and its dangerous implications for the entire free world, the USA and the UK responded magnificently. Pakistan too should have come to the help of India both because the Chinese Comrnunist expansion was as much a threat to her as to India and also because she had been given arms aid by the USA on the specific understanding that she would use it against Communist expansion and aggression whether it came from the USSR or from China. But Pakistan not only did not make any friendly gesture to India but what was worse, she vehemently protested to the USA and the UK for having extended military aid to India.

This attitude of Pakistan must have come as a shock and an eye-opener to the USA. It only confirmed the Indian view that Pakistan had obtained military aid from the USA only for use against India and not for assisting the free world in containing Communist expansion.

By behaving as she did, Pakistan lost an excellent opportunity of reversing the trend of Indo-Pak relations since 1947. Had Pakistan openly and unreservedly come to the aid of India in her time of need, there might have been created the necessary fund of goodwill and proper atmosphere for the settlement of all Indo-Pak disputes including the one regarding Kashmir in a friendly spirit of give and take. But in view of later developments, there are reasons to believe that Pakistan stood committed to China not to go to India's help and that some secret deal about the distribution of Assam territory had been arrived at between the two before China started the invasion. That explains the refusal of Muslims in Assam to evacuate Tezpur when evacuation of its civil population was ordered by the authorities."


Here is an online source of the book: http://www.kashmir-information.com/Storm/chapter12.html


He makes a very interesting point.


What Raj Madhok argues is in the 1962 Sino-Indian War, Pakistan should have come to India's rescue (militarily) against China. He mentions Chinese expansionist policy is as much as a danger to Pakistan as India, which today we can say that is incorrect. Though perhaps their is merit in relations between Pakistan and India would have substantially improved, and such a gesture could have averted the 1962, 71, and other wars...


IMHO, Pakistan did the right thing my forming an alliance with China. In fact, IMHO one of the greatest diplomatic and strategic thinking was made by Pakistan and that was to form the Sino-Pakistan alliance.

Only a few nations in the world hold such an exclusive partnership and treasure.

 

[Zob]

with respect to Raj Madhok.....i think he is forgetting that by 62 it had already been 12 years since the PLEBISICT was already promised by NEHRU....and does he honestly think INDIA is sooooo nice that this "GOODWILL" gesture would have made india love us and just wake up and say hey i give up KASHMIR...i think i am falling for you....woohoooo....


i am sorry INDIA will never take us as a friend....

 

[third eye]

I do not expect these sorts of ignorant, stereotypical rants from a senior member like yourself Third Eye. You need to be a good example for your countrymen here, too many of whom get into trouble because of this mentality.

The Pakistan Army exists because of the same reason the Indian or Australian or French Armies are there. To defend their nation and not because of 'hostility and hate' so please refrain from much retardation in the future. If you don’t think the Pakistan Army can exist without India, then ask yourself what makes the Indian Army so different in regards to Pakistan? Such arrogance does not do you credit.

Consider this a friendly warning.

My apologies if I have ruffled feathers.

Just penned down my thoughts as they came. It comes easy to suggest options as Mush did when you don't own a piece of property. I could give wonderful & outof the box suggestions on Cyprus to the chagrin of Turks & Greeks.

Acceptance of realities is the first step to move froward. J&K also should be divided as Punjab & Bengal were. India has accepted the fact that there are parts of J&K that will never be hers.

Someone who has spent yrs in uniform doing what his patriotism called upon him to do will have probs accepting suggestions that imply undoing yrs & generations of blood sweat & tears.

No offence meant.

 

[notsuperstitious]

PAKISTAN & INDIA alliance is NEVER possible...because india wants us to PLAY the role of LITTLE brother...while we want to be TREATED as EQUALS.....i think that is our core issue since 1947!!!!


we don't mind AFGHANISTAN & IRAN....so we have no issues with them....as for PUPPET well its simple CHINA is our friend & the US buys of our POLITICAL LEADERS....but as for the public we hate the US and have no issues with the CHINESE!!

Little brother? Such terms are useful as they are difficult to define and can always be used to claim victimhood.

 

[IceCold]

I did not expected four pages of expression over some one's personal opinion but then again.....

 

[Kasrkin]

Just penned down my thoughts as they came. It comes easy to suggest options as Mush did when you don't own a piece of property.

We have parts of Kashmir too, almost 45% of it and we've never denied their Disputed Territory status and we've never said they should be excluded from any final solution with India. You need to stop pretending that Pakistan is con-man trying to rip you off of something you own (you don’t actually) through peaceful negotiation.

Acceptance of realities is the first step to move froward

I and others are tired of saying this but the reality is that Kashmir is NOT part of India. It is Disputed Territory that has been choking the chances of peace between our countries for more than half a century. You’re the one who is ignoring realities here. The reality is NOT that Pakistan and Pakistanis are some utterly irrational, obsessed, ‘hateful’ and inhumane people who want a piece of India. The reality is that Kashmir is a bleeding political, religious and cultural frontier in the region, it is a DISPUTE that needs to be addressed, and ‘my way or the highway’ is not a way of addressing it. Disputes are addressed by first being acknowledged by the parties and then solved through negotiation/mediation. India is adverse to the latter and even you apparently can’t do the former. You rather it’s us Pakistanis and our ‘unfair’ demands about impartial mediation and rigorous negotiations that is the sole problem in the region.

Its not about you ruffling feathers, its about you encouraging vulgar and primitive stereotyping. There are many responsible ways of expressing even your views. I hope I got the message across.

 

[third eye]

We have parts of Kashmir too, almost 45% of it and we've never denied their Disputed Territory status and we've never said they should be excluded from any final solution with India. You need to stop pretending that Pakistan is con-man trying to rip you off of something you own (you don’t actually) through peaceful negotiation.

I and others are tired of saying this but the reality is that Kashmir is NOT part of India. It is Disputed Territory that has been choking the chances of peace between our countries for more than half a century. You’re the one who is ignoring realities here. The reality is NOT that Pakistan and Pakistanis are some utterly irrational, obsessed, ‘hateful’ and inhumane people who want a piece of India. The reality is that Kashmir is a bleeding political, religious and cultural frontier in the region, it is a DISPUTE that needs to be addressed, and ‘my way or the highway’ is not a way of addressing it. Disputes are addressed by first being acknowledged by the parties and then solved through negotiation/mediation. India is adverse to the latter and even you apparently can’t do the former. You rather it’s us Pakistanis and our ‘unfair’ demands about impartial mediation and rigorous negotiations that is the sole problem in the region.

Its not about you ruffling feathers, its about you encouraging vulgar and primitive stereotyping. There are many responsible ways of expressing even your views. I hope I got the message across.

What Pk has is 45 % or thereabouts of Kashmir. What I am refering to Jammu & Kashmir. Pk stand has always been to ignore the ' Jammu " part of the state and focus on the " Kashmir" part of it. The reasons are obvious.

Whatever we may write or disuss I cannot see anything changing onthe ground. Just the way this is an emotional issue in Pk, no Govt in India can ever give away any part of J&K or share its control.

This is a reality we have to accept. We have tried all possible options including war & possesion of nukes.

If there are any other options, we could discuss them.