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The Battle Of Chawinda

ok CHINDIT ....let's see what u got to say about the BATTLE of LONGEWALA.... well i have seen ur BOLLYWOOD movie and it was amazing the mighty indian army killed so many pakistanis that my god i think there was no single man left alive in PAKISTAN.... all i am saying is u stop throwing ur crap at us and we stop throwing our crap at u both sides over hyped the events....u in 1971(THE CIVIL WAR THAT INDIA GOT INVOLVED IN) and us in 1965....
 
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ok CHINDIT ....let's see what u got to say about the BATTLE of LONGEWALA.... well i have seen ur BOLLYWOOD movie and it was amazing the mighty indian army killed so many pakistanis that my god i think there was no single man left alive in PAKISTAN.... :crazy:

Dude Chill out!!! Its a Movie!!! Movies are made for the sole purpose of entertainment.. Not to be referred to for historical facts!!!!

Peace Out!!:whistle:
 
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Its pretty funny How only one sided the whole forum gets and the moderator deletes all pics that show anything not captured from India. I thought the rules were about being fare and not just to show one side!! :disagree:

Anyways.. Google is always there to show the other side!! :coffee:
 
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WHATEVER r u seriously just going around posting sh*t everywhere i mean no seriously... google it up yes true infact why not i go to BHARAT RAKHSAHKAHAK or whatever and see the "FACTS" for myself...
 
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Major (General) Akhtar Hussain Malik was GOC 12th Division, he was the overall commander for Operation Grand Slam in the Indo-Pakistan war of 1965. He did successful handling of the initial phase of the operation, then Ayub Khan handed over command to General Yahya Khan in mid operation, resulting in delay and eventual failure of the operation. Some says General Yahya Khan was new to area, failed to understand plan and he took 72 hours to take further practical decisions.
Akhtar Hussain Malik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Qudrat Ullah Shahab had been a Minister of Information, Secretary to the President (Ayub Khan), and an Ambassador in Holland, and he was very informed and well connected person. He said that:

"At a time when Major (General) Akhtar Hussain Malik was to take over Akhanoor to pave the way to take Srinager, the capital of Kashmir, he was wrongly removed from the command, and General Yahya Khan was put in his position"

Pakistan Army senior officers did'nt want to defend at Chawinda they want to settle defence line near Gujranwala on some Canal. It was Brigadier Abdul Ali Malik who planed to defend indians on front and said i will not let indians to move on inch further. His logic was "If we can'nt defend here then its over".
Abdul Ali Malik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Both were brothers. But keeping Religious belief on one side we see that they did good job and proved their loyalty as solider and citizen to PAK ARMY and PAKISTAN. Most importantly, I feel shame as Muslim that traitors like Ayub Khan & General Yahya Khan missed the opportunity that resulted as a great failure in 1971.

Major General Iftikhar Khan Janjua. Hero of Rann of Kutch. He died in a helicopter crash, in Kashmir, while in command of 23rd Infantry Division during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. Till date he remains the only General ranking officer who was killed during operations.
Iftikhar Janjua - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
These three belongs to Qadiani community.
 
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india attacked with 600 tanks (1 st armoured division and 1st armoured brigade) and pakistan only had 5 tanks regiments in the area. so common sense if both the sides had lost 60 tanks each y didnt the indians capture sialkot? zafarwal? shakargargh? wat stopped them? indian losses were no less than 200 tanks destroyed for only 34 losses to pakistan.
 
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The Battle of Chawinda was an interesting battle and remains an interesting battle. It was reported here in the Australian press as the largest tank battle to be fought since the Second World War and as a Pakistani victory (The Australian Sept. 14, 1965). I imagine that there are differing views on this.

I have been privately researching the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War, naturally including the Battle of Chawinda, and the state of both Pakistani and Indian armed forces at that time and that is the reason for my joining the Pakistan Defence forum.

Note: I would have posted a link to the Sept. 14, 1965 edition of The Australian but I cannot do so as yet as this is my first post on the forum and I need 29 posts before I can link a URL in a forum post.
 
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The Battle of Chawinda was an interesting battle and remains an interesting battle. It was reported here in the Australian press as the largest tank battle to be fought since the Second World War and as a Pakistani victory (The Australian Sept. 14, 1965). I imagine that there are differing views on this.

I have been privately researching the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War, naturally including the Battle of Chawinda, and the state of both Pakistani and Indian armed forces at that time and that is the reason for my joining the Pakistan Defence forum.

Note: I would have posted a link to the Sept. 14, 1965 edition of The Australian but I cannot do so as yet as this is my first post on the forum and I need 29 posts before I am to link with a URL in a forum post.
honestly speaking those were the days when the both nation were not matured enough to have a moral courage to accept their own defeats or accept others successes. Nor was media very good back in those days. So its very hard to get the real pint of views with out BS. But i guess the written books of the formal soldiers can be taken into account.
 
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I realise that a bias will usually exist from either country's perspective, but as long as I get to the actual facts of the matter that is all that is necessary. Extravagant propagandist claims can usually be seen through pretty quickly provided one has enough information. War memoirs of the soldiers and airmen involved can and will always be useful.
 
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The Battle of Chawinda was an interesting battle and remains an interesting battle. It was reported here in the Australian press as the largest tank battle to be fought since the Second World War and as a Pakistani victory (The Australian Sept. 14, 1965). I imagine that there are differing views on this.

I have been privately researching the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War, naturally including the Battle of Chawinda, and the state of both Pakistani and Indian armed forces at that time and that is the reason for my joining the Pakistan Defence forum.

Note: I would have posted a link to the Sept. 14, 1965 edition of The Australian but I cannot do so as yet as this is my first post on the forum and I need 29 posts before I can link a URL in a forum post.

Hi mate welcome

It's controversial both countries have different versions of the story .
I'm glad you are taking the initiative to research this topic best of luck for that and I hope you will share the conclusion of your research .
 
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Hi mate welcome

It's controversial both countries have different versions of the story .
I'm glad you are taking the initiative to research this topic best of luck for that and I hope you will share the conclusion of your research .

Thanks, Sam. Yeah, as I have said, if one has enough information it ought to be a fairly simple matter to see through the more extravagant claims. It becomes a matter of gathering all the facts together and weighing it all up. I'll certainly let the troops know what I find. But it is an interesting war to study.
 
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Redhawk

1.The Battle of Chawinda and the '65 War was well covered by the Australian press. This indeed was the biggest tank battle post-WW II.IA's Chieftains and Centurions against PA's aging Shermans,Chafee light tanks and the modern Patton M-47sandM-48s.

2. IA's Sialkot sector stretching from River Ravi to River Chenab was under Lieut Gen Dunn, Commander 1 Corps.Dunn had set up his HQ at Kaluchak near Jammuon 04 Sep..The task allotted to him was to advance up to the Marala Ravi Link canal bypassing Sialkot built-up area.Thereafter move to the line Daska-Mandhali.Having failed to reach the bar at LHR Gymkhana through a blitzkrieg,obviously IA Chief Choudhury now intended to reach road Gujranwalla-Wazirabad cutting off LHR from RWP.He was given 1 Armd Div under Rajinder Singh, 6 Mtn Div under Korla, 14 Inf Div under Ranjeet Singh and 26 Inf Div under Thapan. Thapan's ops was code named "Nepal".

3. PA had established a Corps HQ, their first, under a valiant officer Lieut Gen Bakhtiar Rana. Rana was a practical down to earth soldier.However, his HQ located at Raiwind was not fully functional. Abrar Husain's 6 Amd Div, 15 Div under Tikka and 8 Div under a shell-shocked ASC Brigadier were facing Dunn. Later 1 Armd Div less a Bde was also moved in this sector pulling out of Khem Karan.

4. Whereas IA's 1 Corps was sloppy in moving to battle locations, Rana's formations were quick to move into defenses anticipating Indian attacks.In a four phased op, 26 Inf Div and 6 Mtn Div crossed the international border at 2300 hrs night 07/08 Sep. This was the northern/right hand advance of Dunn to create imbalance in Rana's defensed.Dunn needed to create a bridgehead across the international boundary to act as the spring board for further ops towards MRL.To meet this northern advance of Dunn, PA could deploy only 6 Bal,newly raised 22 Baloch under Barlas, 13FF (R&S) under Taqseenuddin, and a regt of Chafees and ancient Sherman tanks manned by reservists of a TDU. The right extreme of PA defenses was manned by 2 Bal deployed in their cantt peace location.But the Indian advance was stopped at road Chaprar-Sialkot by intelligent employment of the R&S bn and valiant fighting by 6 Bal.Not only that,the Indians were continuously harassed by sporadic attacks here and there.

5. Dunn's next move was towards the key ground, Chowinda-Philora. International boundary was crossed at first light 08 Sep.However, repeated, regrouped and readjusted assaults from various directions between 08 to 12 Sep failed to achieve any significant gain for Dunn.From13 to 20 Sep he devoted himself in regrouping his forces which had suffered major losses in men and eqpt.Historically Chawinda tank battles took place between 08 to 12 Sep.

6. Having regrouped,Dunn again moved north.He again made desperate efforts to break through between the city and Ravi. In Sialkot at that juncture had collected three amazing artillery officers - Tikka, the Div Arty Comdr whose name I forget unfortunately and Ata commanding 8 Med Regt.Perhaps the last resource that Rana could free was 4 Bal, an old and proud bn with 50% HM and 50% PM. It was withdrawn from Philora defenses and deployed in anti-para drop role on MRL.Actually this was Rana's last proper infantry reserve.Even the Pathan Lashkar tribesmen under Political Agent shad disappeared. Indians had entrenched themselves with bn HQs at Muhadipur and Tilakpur villages making regular forays into are Mile 8 Chaprar-Sialkot Road. Their forward elements were in occupation of a row of villages running north to south.These were Najwal, Panwal,Philora Wadda and Philora Nikki - all on the west of the road axis.

7. Half an hour before last light on 22 Sep, 4 Bal launched a very noisy and open assault on Indian positions held by 1 Madras, 10 Mahar and 5/11 GR. In fact the entire 52 Mtn Bde of 26 Inf Div.The attack looked like highly charged Saracens rushing on the Crusaders yelling the Islamic war cry, Nara e Taqbir/Allah o Akbar.Just before the assault artillery of two Divs and Corps had pounded the objective to shreds. The left attacking Coy reached and took position in Philora Nikki. The right attacking Coy rushed across the road Chaprar-Sialkot and was threatening the Bn HQ of 10 Mahar at Mahadipur when their FOO became a casualty.Infantry signal sets had become dead in the terrible artillery bombardment. There was no way to withdraw own artillery barrage over Mahadipur to carry forward the attack to that location.In fact the forward elements of the attacking companies had rushed forward more than two miles chasing the fleeing enemy.

8.Any study of the Battle of Chawinda must consider the background and particularly the battle plans of both Gen Rana and Gen Dunn.
 
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8.Any study of the Battle of Chawinda must consider the background and particularly the battle plans of both Gen Rana and Gen Dunn.

Indeed. Are the battle plans for Chawinda of Generals Rana and Dunn available online?
 
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