The Bara sit in/protest at the Peshawar Governor House

[Safriz]

wrong. you enter a house and kill relatives, just because some of their boys have joined terrorists.... this is whats wrong !!

and we are not even sure about this in this case...

Or another scenario is that people fired at Pak army and then went into these houses posing all innocent..Terrorists have no shame,they will hide under their own children;s beds...
I have heard many similar accounts from 1971 war..Mukti bahini would fire at Pak army and then run inside their houses and hide behind their wives,and then come out again,do the same..to a point where army had no choice but to break into the house,and kill the rat...
Then exactly the same situation,the next hour,the wife or relatives would come out of the house with the dead terrorist.. poising all innocent and complaining how "brutal" pak army has been...

 

[Leader]

Or another scenario is that people fired at Pak army and then went into these houses posing all innocent..Terrorists have no shame,they will hide under their own children;s beds...
I have heard many similar accounts from 1971 war..Mukti bahini would fire at Pak army and then run inside their houses and hide behind their wives,and then come out again,do the same..to a point where army had no choice but to break into the house,and kill the rat...
Then exactly the same situation,the next hour,the wife or relatives would come out of the house with the dead terrorist.. poising all innocent and complaining how "brutal" pak army has been...

FC is denying that it was their men. they stated that terrorists were wearing their uniforms who killed these people.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

You people might be wondering why a pashtun nationalist like me is not reacting emotionally to this incident. Well the thing it is not the first incident of civilian casualties at the hands of Pak army, they are so many that i am now used to it.. This incident has came to our notice, because bara of khyber agency is just few kilometers from Peshawer and the family members didnt remain silent and protested with bodies of victims in front of governor house with presence of media. Most of blunders of Pak army and security agencies are not reported at all by our illiterate and isolated folk of FATA. Moreover media is banned from entering into FATA by pak army. Wazirs have told me that american drone attacks are more precise, they target only militants. While Pak army bombardments are messy and indiscriminate.
I blame tribals for this. When their loved ones are killed by security agencies, they respond by joining taliban ranks to get revenge which further stimulate pak army resulting in more blood shed. They should understand that Pakistani public might have sympathies for angry baloch nationalists but have no sympathies for talibans. They can no longer live as lawless tribals with no go areas, it is 21st century, pen should be their zewar along with gun. Right now there is no note worthy intelligentsia from FATA, to raise the plights of tribals to national platforms. They should first start with throwing off cruel colonial FCR and inclusion of their areas in KPK. Then they need to eliminate religious extremism from their society and retain only Pashtuniyat with moderate islam. With "qalam" and appropriate use of "talwar, no one would dare to butcher them like cows

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

wrong. you enter a house and kill relatives, just because some of their boys have joined terrorists.... this is whats wrong !!

and we are not even sure about this in this case...

Pak army soldiers are humans, they are irritated and fed up from continuous militancy and many of them might be thinking like @Safriz who approve of teaching lesson to all tribals.

Some tribals are stirring up,

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

...............................................

 

[Hyperion]

Dude, this is the first logical post from you!

I'll report back on situation of NW and SW in a month.

You people might be wondering why a pashtun nationalist like me is not reacting emotionally to this incident. Well the thing it is not the first incident of civilian casualties at the hands of Pak army, they are so many that i am now used to it.. This incident has came to our notice, because bara of khyber agency is just few kilometers from Peshawer and the family members didnt remain silent and protested with bodies of victims in front of governor house with presence of media. Most of blunders of Pak army and security agencies are not reported at all by our illiterate and isolated folk of FATA. Moreover media is banned from entering into FATA by pak army. Wazirs have told me that american drone attacks are more precise, they target only militants. While Pak army bombardments are messy and indiscriminate.
I blame tribals for this. When their loved ones are killed by security agencies, they respond by joining taliban ranks to get revenge which further stimulate pak army resulting in more blood shed. They should understand that Pakistani public might have sympathies for angry baloch nationalists but have no sympathies for talibans. They can no longer live as lawless tribals with no go areas, it is 21st century, pen should be their zewar along with gun. Right now there is no note worthy intelligentsia from FATA, to raise the plights of tribals to national platforms. They should first start with throwing off cruel colonial FCR and inclusion of their areas in KPK. Then they need to eliminate religious extremism from their society and retain only Pashtuniyat with moderate islam. With "qalam" and appropriate use of "talwar, no one would dare to butcher them like cows

@Safriz stop with your bullshit on multiple threads. You don't want tribals to stand up and ask for their rights. Fear from deep within that day never comes.

 

[Leader]

Pak army soldiers are humans, they are irritated and fed up from continuous militancy and many of them might be thinking like @Safriz who approve of teaching lesson to all tribals.

Some tribals are stirring up,

authority comes with responsibility, but I do understand that 10 years of war is depressing, psychological problems do arise but this incident is not related to it, its related to the strategy army has adopted...

P.S.

An FIR has been registered against PTI Khyber Leaders for protesting along side with the Bara protesters....

 

[KRAIT]

@Monkey D Luffy I agree with you that even security forces gets frustrated,. Reason is years long of exposure to violence, loss of friends, being away from family for long time takes its toll on these soldiers and what makes them snap is Courts freeing all the terrorists and extremists and all their efforts go to waste.

So now, a cycle is created, the soldiers take justice in their own hands, people get agitated as collateral damage occurs and unlawful behavior makes things work, they oppose and often turn violent and the soldiers attack them too. So this vicious circle creates an unstable system.

To reduce this, many strategies have to be applied. It includes strengthening the relations between the people and the govt. and security forces, proper address of the problems of the tribal people, strict disciplinary actions against the soldiers who break laws etc. It also needs other measures like education, employment generation, providing basic necessities and ensuring development in the region.

I am not defending any criminal but we should look at all aspects. Personally I think SC should take immediate steps and question the security agencies.

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

really sad event ,
govt need to address the grievences of the people on priority bases ,

 

[RescueRanger]

[MENTION=29079]
I am not defending any criminal but we should look at all aspects. Personally I think SC should take immediate steps and question the security agencies.

Legally that can't really happen, as the military comes under martial law and it would a court martial that would have to see to any punishment or discipline any soldiers. Police, IB, some FC(Constabulary) and Internal Security Wing of Rangers will come under MOI: Ministry of Interior and can be brought to book by the SC and civilian court system.

Even then the SC has to be careful it does not go in guns blazing, there is a past history of it over stepping its bounds and (all froth, no action) if you get my drift.

That said, this is a very sad but to be expected episode.
@faujihistorian excellent post sir @Hyperion yes i totally agree with both yourself and Monkey D Luffy on this

@OP, someone was saying that journalists cannot enter into FATA, that is incorrect. Journalists can enter the area just need to apply for a NOC like everything else. Recently the government has been stricter on the control of journalists travelling to tribal areas due to the french and Swiss "photo journalists" case.

 

[haviZsultan]

This picture really depresses me. We do not ever think how our policies may be creating future terrorists and supporters and sympathizers of Afghanistan.

Dude, this is the first logical post from you!

I'll report back on situation of NW and SW in a month.

@Safriz stop with your bullshit on multiple threads. You don't want tribals to stand up and ask for their rights. Fear from deep within that day never comes.

I think Luffy may be on the verge of a monumental change.

FC is denying that it was their men. they stated that terrorists were wearing their uniforms who killed these people.

I agree that we should think about this. There are cases when militants in military uniform have conducted attacks. This article should be noted here:

Militants in military uniform

Of late it has been noticed that terrorists have been using military uniform for gaining access and attacking their targets. There are many examples in which militants have dressed in uniforms used by security personnel to either ease their way to the outer cordons of secure installations or to wield an air of authority that initially masks their intent. Shia passengers in four buses were shot dead in Mansehra by terrorists in commando uniforms. In Kohistan in February, on a similar attack on Shia bus passengers, the gunmen were also in military uniform, as were the militants who in October 2009 attacked GHQ in Rawalpindi. Similarly, militants who intruded in PNS Mehran air base in May 2011 and in PAF air base Minhas Kamara in August this year also took advantage of military uniform for gaining access in to their targets.

However, after the attack on GHQ in October 2009 by the militants who were dressed in army uniform it was decided by the GHQ that all shops selling different items of military uniforms in the local market will be closed to deny unauthorized persons to purchase these items freely. But this decision was never implemented. There are thousands of shops in the country supplying all the items of army, navy, rangers, coast guards and police which include rank badges, unit shoulder signs, caps, cap badges, arm bands, belts, boots, stitched uniforms and availability of cloth for any type of uniform. There are also tailors in the local market where one can get uniform stitched/altered. In a barber shop one can also get military style haircut. Similarly, all types of military cloth and stitched uniforms, boots, belts and caps etc, are also available in huge quantity for open sale in the local ‘Lunda Bazar’ in every city of the country.

It is pertinent to note that no item of PAF uniform is allowed for selling in the local market. All uniform items of the PAF are controlled stores and new items are issued to PAF personnel only after their uniform items are rendered unserviceable through fair wear and tear. PAF personnel have to return these unserviceable items are put before a ‘Board of Officers’ for converting them in to cleaning rags after tearing them in to small pieces. Hence, there are no chances of misusing any item of PAF uniform.
I would request the Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) Pak Army General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani to take notice of this security lapse on the part of the concerned in the Pakistan Army to take action on the same pattern as taken by the PAF.

Sqn Ldr (retd) S Ausaf Husain
Karachi

Do check this as well:

Gunmen kidnap seven Pakistani soldiers in Punjab | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

This most recent attack claimed/suspected by tariq afridi was indeed by militants who were wearing uniforms. Another case would be the massacre in Gilgit Baltistan or more specifically in Kohistan of buses going to Gilgit.

However a proper inquiry should take place and there is a chance army could be responsible. As Luffy said, indeed army is very frustrated. When the militants just capture 10-20 militants and slay them in cold blood its quite obvious. Furthermore the FC commandant for Bara has been replaced. But there are indeed many more such incidents.

Airstrikes, artillery bombardment, helicopter gunships should actually be banned. Even India never used these in Kashmir.

 

[Safriz]

@Monkey D Luffy
Why do you think all rockets on Peshawar airport were fired from Khyber agency? And the militants most probably came from there or by local support...
So there you go..who started it?

 

[notsuperstitious]

In a protracted war, relations between army / paramilitaries and locals will deteriorate.

Its important that policing must be made more efficient and central foces work along with the police for military action. Army / paras are just not trained for policing job, that includes managing and handling the locals, effective information gathering and the like.

I do belive in FATA effective policing is not possible because of the unique tribal structure. This is the biggest problem. Its probably easy for me to say, but all of pakistan should be under the same system and tribalism should become weaker or more compatible with modern governance.

 

[RescueRanger]

In a protracted war, relations between army / paramilitaries and locals will deteriorate.

Its important that policing must be made more efficient and central foces work along with the police for military action. Army / paras are just not trained for policing job, that includes managing and handling the locals, effective information gathering and the like.

I do belive in FATA effective policing is not possible because of the unique tribal structure. This is the biggest problem. Its probably easy for me to say, but all of pakistan should be under the same system and tribalism should become weaker or more compatible with modern governance.

The concept of the Frontier and FATA is a outdated gora system that needs to be overhauled and rid off.

 

[Star Wars]

This picture really depresses me. We do not ever think how our policies may be creating future terrorists and supporters and sympathizers of Afghanistan.



I think Luffy may be on the verge of a monumental change.



I agree that we should think about this. There are cases when militants in military uniform have conducted attacks. This article should be noted here:



Do check this as well:

Gunmen kidnap seven Pakistani soldiers in Punjab | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

This most recent attack claimed/suspected by tariq afridi was indeed by militants who were wearing uniforms. Another case would be the massacre in Gilgit Baltistan or more specifically in Kohistan of buses going to Gilgit.

However a proper inquiry should take place and there is a chance army could be responsible. As Luffy said, indeed army is very frustrated. When the militants just capture 10-20 militants and slay them in cold blood its quite obvious. Furthermore the FC commandant for Bara has been replaced. But there are indeed many more such incidents.

Airstrikes, artillery bombardment, helicopter gunships should actually be banned. Even India never used these in Kashmir.

I Believe the main problem in fighting with militants is that You don't recognise one until they decide to fire at you. I have noticed most of them are in civilian clothing(salwar kameez type thingy). The Army actually might be forced to be shot first to realise whom to shoot at. Same problems happen in Kashmir , civilian deaths are impossible to avoid in these cases... Not to mention this is a Major disadvantage...