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The Arab civilisation then and now

The topic here is Arab civilization, not Greek. The discussion was about the lack of credit to Arab (and Muslim) civilization. Mention of Greek civilization was in the context of Western coverage of Arab/Muslim civilizations.

I cannot see how the Arab's differ in this regard. People tend to interpret things in their own way. If Europeans are not giving credit to Arab contributions, it is likely the other way around as well. I'm sure the Chinese, Japanese, Indians don't give enough credit to Arabs in their published works. And perhaps Arabs undervalue others in their books on such topics.

Why should the west be held to a different standard?

Secondly this applies to nation's as well. You see German's, French, Canadian's and American's arguing all the time at what their respective countries have achieved.
 
Such discussions are bull$hit IMO because past is PAST, what matter are NOW and us, not what our fathers did in past.

This is true, we are in our own no matter our great-grandparents were brilliant in the past, but it is still important to defend the legacy of your great-grandparents since your enemies are trying to do everything to erase it. :coffee:
 
I cannot see how the Arab's differ in this regard. People tend to interpret things in their own way. If Europeans are not giving credit to Arab contributions, it is likely the other way around as well. I'm sure the Chinese, Japanese, Indians don't give enough credit to Arabs in their published works. And perhaps Arabs undervalue others in their books on such topics.

Why should the west be held to a different standard?

Secondly this applies to nation's as well. You see German's, French, Canadian's and American's arguing all the time at what their respective countries have achieved.

First of all the Arabs must stop taking credit for the Hindu numerals, that we use today --

But such small things will miss his 'Islamophobia' filter --
 
Rarely have I seen a post with so many inaccurracies... I don't have time to comment on every single line but I will make it brief.


**********​



Khawarezmi is an Iranian scientist.



Which calendar is this? The most accurate calendar of the era was/is the Jalali calendar (Iranian calendars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which is solar and is largely based on the works of Khayyam (an Iranian).

The arabic calendar is lunar and has no relation to the Western (solar) calendar. I'm assuming the text is referring to the Gregorian calendar reform.

ASTRONOMY



Which Arab astronomers in Maragheh? It was managed by Naser al-Din Tusi (Maragheh observatory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).



Biruni is an Iranian. (Ab)



Fazari was Iranian (Ibr), Farghani was Iranian (Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Kath) and Zarqali was spanish (converted to Islam) (Ab).

Maragheh (located in Iran) which has been mentioned twice now has nothing to do with Arabs. It was during the Il Khani (Persianate Mongol) era.



Zakariyya Razi was an Iranian (Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).



Ibn Sina was Iranian (Avicenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).



Ibn Khatib/Khatima's origins are clear from the text. There is no "al-Maglusi" that showed the capillary system. His name was al-Majusi and he was Iranian ('Ali ibn al-'Abbas al-Majusi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).



The architectural style of Samarkand mentioned above is distinctly Iranian and furthermore has nothing to do with Arabs. It's a timurid construction (i.e. during Tamerlane era).



Ibn Batuta was a berber, however he was not a scientist and many of his stories have been doubted.



Moorish origin.




Ibn al-Awam was a spaniard.



Peach and Apricot originated in Greater Iran. Sugar is from India and Coffee is from Ethiopia. Olive is from the Mediterranean region and was there since the ancient era. I don't see how Arabs contributed to food production.




The Banu Musa brothers were Iranian (Ban).



Ibn Haytham is claimed to be Arab by some arabs but majority of historical commentators consider him to be Iranian. He was not under Arab era, but during the Iranian Buyid dynasty.



This is ludicrous. The Rubaiyat is written in Persian and this text is claiming that it's the most widely read of Arab literature?



Farabi was Iranian (Al-Farabi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Avicenna is already mentioned above as an Iranian scholar. Ibn Khaldun was berber although he claimed he was Arab due to political reasons. But his book is filled with praise and fascination with berbers. Read more about it here: Ibn Khaldun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is lots more that I did not comment on, you may excuse me but I simply don't have the time.

Rarely have I seen a post with so many inaccurracies... I don't have time to comment on every single line but I will make it brief.

Learn to quote text properly. I had to remove my user name or this part here "
" from your post to get the quote to appear via your name in the response.

Most of your arguments are made against their ethnicity. Doesn't the beginning of the article mention that:

To be Arab, then as now, was not to come from a particular race or lineage. To be Arab, like American, was (and is) a civilization and a cultural trait rather than a racial mark. To be Arab meant to be from the Arabic-speaking world — a world of common traditions, customs and value — shaped by a single and unifying language.

Sure many of those people were not racially Arab, but they were culturally & linguistically Arab.
 
Learn to quote text properly. Most of your arguments are made against their ethnicity.

I'm correcting the false claim that they were Arabs and in many cases that they were part of "Arab civilization".

Sure many of those people were not racially Arab, but they were culturally & linguistically Arab.

No, they were not. They were culturally and linguistically proud of their ethnic, cultural and linguistic origins particularly the Iranians. Why are you concocting falsehood?
 
Keep bringing up the IVC thread like a loser, it doesn't matter to me.

I mention the IVC thread to point out your pattern of "debating" which consists of personal insults when you don't have any facts to back you up.

You seem to have a lot of hatred for the Europeans, anyone reading your post will figure it out for himself or herself.

Predictable refuge into insults.

Where have I written ANYTHING racist against Europeans? Show me. I dare you!

I only complained against bigotry and prejudice no matter who does it.

I cannot see how the Arab's differ in this regard. People tend to interpret things in their own way. If Europeans are not giving credit to Arab contributions, it is likely the other way around as well. I'm sure the Chinese, Japanese, Indians don't give enough credit to Arabs in their published works. And perhaps Arabs undervalue others in their books on such topics.

You are right that all cultures overvalue their own contributions.

Why should the west be held to a different standard?

Because Western media dominates the globe and sets the agenda in a lot of ways. It may be unfair, but as the dominant leader, any misrepresentations by the West tends to have more global impact. With power and leadership comes responsibility.
 
I mention the IVC thread to point out your pattern of "debating" which consists of personal insults when you don't have any facts to back you up.

If my posts were insulting, then your posts were insulting too. You don't have any facts to back you up either, all of you have done is waste my time. I tend to have very polite & respectful discussions unless people provoke me.

Predictable refuge into insults.

That was not an insult, go look up the meaning of the word "insult".

Where have I written ANYTHING racist against Europeans? Show me. I dare you!

Did I say you had written anything racist? Can't you read? I said "you seem to have a lot of hatred for the Europeans, anyone reading your post will figure it out for himself or herself".

I only complained against bigotry and prejudice no matter who does it.

In my opinion, your own remarks were bigoted & filled with prejudice.

Our discussion is over.

**********​

I'm correcting the false claim that they were Arabs and in many cases that they were part of "Arab civilization".

No, they were not. They were culturally and linguistically proud of their ethnic, cultural and linguistic origins particularly the Iranians. Why are you concocting falsehood?

I am not concocting falsehood. Read the beginning part of the article quoted once again below.

To be Arab, then as now, was not to come from a particular race or lineage. To be Arab, like American, was (and is) a civilization and a cultural trait rather than a racial mark. To be Arab meant to be from the Arabic-speaking world — a world of common traditions, customs and value — shaped by a single and unifying language.

Read this hadith quoted below.

A man once visited the Prophet's mosque in Madinah. There he saw a group of people sitting and discussing their faith together. Among them were Salman (who came from Persia), Suhayb who grew up in the Eastern Roman empire and was regarded as a Greek, and Bilal who was an African. The man then said:

"If the (Madinan) tribes of Aws and Khazraj support Muhammad, they are his people (that is, Arabs like him). But what are these people doing here?"

The Prophet became very angry when this was reported to him. Straightaway, he went to the mosque and summoned people to a Salat. He then addressed them saying:

"O people, know that the Lord and Sustainer is One. Your ancestor is one, your faith is one. The Arabism of anyone of you is not from your mother or father. It is no more than a tongue (language). Whoever speaks Arabic is an Arab."

Source
 
Did I say you had written anything racist? Can't you read? I said "you seem to have a lot of hatred for the Europeans, anyone reading your post will figure it out for himself or herself".

This is what you wrote:

I consider your posts on this thread as being prejudiced & racist.

And once again....

In my opinion, your own remarks were bigoted & filled with prejudice.

You seem to have trouble remembering your own posts, let alone someone else's. Basically, you just take cheap shots at people when you can't debate properly.

So, once again, show me where I wrote anything racist against Europeans!
 
I am not concocting falsehood. Read the beginning part of the article quoted once again below.

You claimed that the scientists that I mentioned, in particular the Iranian ones, were "linguistically and culturally Arab". This is utter nonsense. Provide evidence for this claim. I'm willing to go through each and every one if you so desire because I have in depth knowledge of their biographies.
 
Rarely have I seen a post with so many inaccurracies... I don't have time to comment on every single line but I will make it brief.

They should be named alighor's inaccurracies.:lol:




Khawarezmi is an Iranian scientist.

A lie.

Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi Alcrdobla, an Iraqi Muslim scholar dubbed as Khwarizmi, Abu Ja'far said that he was born about 164 e 781 m (which is uncertain), and was told that he died after 232 AH after 847 AD) and it was said he died in 236 AH. Is one of the early Muslim mathematicians, where his work contributed to a significant role in the progress of mathematics in his time

He worked at the the House of Wisdom in Baghdad and gain the confidence of the Caliph Mamoun and appointed at the Hikma house, he also was entrusted with drawing a map of the world. And before his death in 850 AD / 232 AH Akhawazrma left many of the books in the science of astronomy and geography of the most important algebra book, which is the most important book written has been translated into Latin in the year 1135 AD has subsequently entered words such as algebra and algebra zero zero to Latin languages​​.

His life

His family moved from the city of an algorithm (called'' Ckheoa'' in the current era, in the Republic of Uzbekistan) to Baghdad in Iraq, And he accomplished most of his research, between 813 and 833 in the House of Al-Hikma, which was founded by Caliph al-Ma'mun. Where Caliph al-Ma'mun appointed him as the head his of wardrobe books, and entrusted with the collection of Greek books their translation. Algorithm has benefited from the books that were available in a closet safe studied mathematics, geography, astronomy, history, as well as his knowledge of Greek and Indian. And dissemination of all his works in Arabic, which was the language of science in that era. Tabari and he calls in its history: Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi Alqtrpley, relative to the village of Qtrpl outskirts of Baghdad.

The encyclopedia (British version students), Encyclopedia Microsoft Encarta, and the Encyclopedia of Columbia University, and others - all together identify him as an Arab.

1- ^ Hogendijk, Jan P. (1998). "al-Khwarzimi". Pythagoras 38 (2): 4–5. ISSN 0033–4766.‎

Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
Complete Dictionary of Scientific Biography | 2008 | 700+ words | Copyright
Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

mathematics, astronomy, geography.


Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
Complete Dictionary of Scientific Biography | 2008 | 700+ words | Copyright
Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

mathematics, astronomy, geography.

Only a few details of al-Khwārizmī’s life can be gleaned from the brief notices in Islamic bibliographical works and occasional remarks by Islamic historians and geographers. The epithet “al-Khwārizmī” would normally indicate that he came from Khwārizm (Khorezm, corresponding to the modern Khiva and the district surrounding it, south of the Aral Sea in central Asia). But the historian al-Tabarī gives him the additional epithet “al-Qutrubbullī,” indicating that he came from Qutrubbull, a district between the Tigris and Euphrates not far from Baghdad,1 so perhaps his ancestors, rather than he himself, came from Khwārizm;

All that can be said concerning the date and order of composition of al-Khwārizmī’s works is the following. The Algebra and the astronomical work, as we have seen, were composed under al-Ma’mũn, in the earlier part of al-Khwārizmī’s career. The treatise on Hindu numerals was composed after the Algebra, to which it refers. The treatise on the Jewish calendar is dated by an internal calculation to 823-824. The Geography has been tentatively dated by Nallino (“al-Khuwārizmī,” p. 487) to soon after 816-817, since one of the localities it mentions is Qiman, an Egyptian village of no importance whatever except that a battle was fought there in that year; but the inference is far from secure. The Chronicle was composed after 826, since al-Tabarī quotes it as an authority for an event in that year.5
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2830902300.html
 
This is what you wrote:

And once again....

You seem to have trouble remembering your own posts, let alone someone else's.

So, once again, show me where I wrote anything racist against Europeans!

You seem to have a lot of trouble understanding English.

The post you quoted was in response to your earlier post. Let me show you the words you should focus on below in "bold".

Did I say you had written anything racist? Can't you read? I said "you seem to have a lot of hatred for the Europeans, anyone reading your post will figure it out for himself or herself".

You seem to have a lot of hatred for the Europeans, anyone reading your post will figure it out for himself or herself.

The quotes above are pretty much the same.

In my opinion, your own remarks were bigoted & filled with prejudice.

Focus on "seem" & "in my opinion". The word "seem" means to "give the impression or sensation of being something or having a particular quality". I assume you already know the meaning of "in my opinion".

Is it clear now? Now, did you understand what I mean? You give off the impression of being a racist.
 
Developereo and Phoenix. Keep it civil or I won't hesitate to make harsher measures on you both. Stay on topic because you are Off-Topic.
 
They should be named alighor's inaccurracies.:lol:






A lie.

Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi Alcrdobla, an Iraqi Muslim scholar dubbed as Khwarizmi, Abu Ja'far said that he was born about 164 e 781 m (which is uncertain), and was told that he died after 232 AH after 847 AD) and it was said he died in 236 AH. Is one of the early Muslim mathematicians, where his work contributed to a significant role in the progress of mathematics in his time

He worked at the the House of Wisdom in Baghdad and gain the confidence of the Caliph Mamoun and appointed at the Hikma house, he also was entrusted with drawing a map of the world. And before his death in 850 AD / 232 AH Akhawazrma left many of the books in the science of astronomy and geography of the most important algebra book, which is the most important book written has been translated into Latin in the year 1135 AD has subsequently entered words such as algebra and algebra zero zero to Latin languages​​.

His life

His family moved from the city of an algorithm (called'' Ckheoa'' in the current era, in the Republic of Uzbekistan) to Baghdad in Iraq, And he accomplished most of his research, between 813 and 833 in the House of Al-Hikma, which was founded by Caliph al-Ma'mun. Where Caliph al-Ma'mun appointed him as the head his of wardrobe books, and entrusted with the collection of Greek books their translation. Algorithm has benefited from the books that were available in a closet safe studied mathematics, geography, astronomy, history, as well as his knowledge of Greek and Indian. And dissemination of all his works in Arabic, which was the language of science in that era. Tabari and he calls in its history: Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi Alqtrpley, relative to the village of Qtrpl outskirts of Baghdad.

The encyclopedia (British version students), Encyclopedia Microsoft Encarta, and the Encyclopedia of Columbia University, and others - all together identify him as an Arab.

1- ^ Hogendijk, Jan P. (1998). "al-Khwarzimi". Pythagoras 38 (2): 4–5. ISSN 0033–4766.‎

Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
Complete Dictionary of Scientific Biography | 2008 | 700+ words | Copyright
Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

mathematics, astronomy, geography.


Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
Complete Dictionary of Scientific Biography | 2008 | 700+ words | Copyright
Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

mathematics, astronomy, geography.

Only a few details of al-Khwārizmī’s life can be gleaned from the brief notices in Islamic bibliographical works and occasional remarks by Islamic historians and geographers. The epithet “al-Khwārizmī” would normally indicate that he came from Khwārizm (Khorezm, corresponding to the modern Khiva and the district surrounding it, south of the Aral Sea in central Asia). But the historian al-Tabarī gives him the additional epithet “al-Qutrubbullī,” indicating that he came from Qutrubbull, a district between the Tigris and Euphrates not far from Baghdad,1 so perhaps his ancestors, rather than he himself, came from Khwārizm;

All that can be said concerning the date and order of composition of al-Khwārizmī’s works is the following. The Algebra and the astronomical work, as we have seen, were composed under al-Ma’mũn, in the earlier part of al-Khwārizmī’s career. The treatise on Hindu numerals was composed after the Algebra, to which it refers. The treatise on the Jewish calendar is dated by an internal calculation to 823-824. The Geography has been tentatively dated by Nallino (“al-Khuwārizmī,” p. 487) to soon after 816-817, since one of the localities it mentions is Qiman, an Egyptian village of no importance whatever except that a battle was fought there in that year; but the inference is far from secure. The Chronicle was composed after 826, since al-Tabarī quotes it as an authority for an event in that year.5
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2830902300.html

You seem to be a confused individual.

The person we are talking about is this: Mu.

There is absolutely no doubt where he came from, and several of his works were written in Persian.
 
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