TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[FuturePAF]

The WS-10 powers hundreds of frontline J-10s, J-11s, J-16s and J-20s. Plus there are more types of turbofans powering another stealth fighter, heavyweight transport and drones. The Chinese industry is already proven many times over.

The Kaveri has never powered anything that flew and is basically the only project in India. Why bring up India at all?

Pakistan as the first operator of both the F100-229 by Pratt and Whitney as well as the WS-10B, they will be the best parity to give Turkey as clear indication of the capabilities and limitations of Chinese engines and how they compare to the F100 engine.

The fact that Pakistan bought the J-10 should be an initial indication to Turkey that the WS-10B is a capable engine in the 30,000-32,000 lb. class.

Any indication the WS-10C (155 kn /35,000 lb.) will cleared for export when the WS-15 is ready for mass production. It could be very attractive for the TF-X program.

 

[merzifonlu]

There is chance that Erdogan will lost in next election, what do you think on the opposition party leader ? Will they have much softer approach to Western nation and USA, unlike confrontational type of Erdo foreign politics? Erdo is also quite hard to Kurdish in Syria where they are western allies and incremental to defeat ISIS during Syrian civil war

Do not repeat USA lies here! The "Kurds" in Syria are none other than the terrorist PKK. Likewise, neither the USA nor the PKK has fought against ISIS. The USA allowed Russia and Iran to massacre civilians in Syria, what are you talking about?!

The deterioration in relations has nothing to do with Erdogan. This is a process that has been going on since the 1990s. No matter who comes to power in Turkiye, Turkiye's policy will not change.

 

[GiantPanda]

Because the engine which India is developing for AMCA will be the true 5th generation engine.

Let's see, India spent the better part of four decades on a medium engine and got only a couple of prototypes that never flew.

Now you will suddenly develop a "true" 5th gen engine with an Indian industry that never even put a turbojet into production like Iran was able to do with the Owj.

Good luck. We'll see where the AMCA engine is in a couple of years versus the WS-15 and WS-19 projects under way to power China's 5th gen.

Pakistan as the first operator of both the F100-229 by Pratt and Whitney as well as the WS-10B, they will be the best parity to give Turkey as clear indication of the capabilities and limitations of Chinese engines and how they compare to the F100 engine.

The fact that Pakistan bought the J-10 should be an initial indication to Turkey that the WS-10B is a capable engine in the 30,000-32,000 lb. class.

Any indication the WS-10C (155 kn /35,000 lb.) will cleared for export when the WS-15 is ready for mass production. It could be very attractive for the TF-X program.

Yes, Pakistan would be a good source for experience. It might even be an user of another Chinese powerplant in the WS-13 for the later JF-17 blocks.

As far as I know, the WS-10 family of engines is cleared for export with J-10CE. The fact they had put multiple variants of the WS-10 on display at the Zhuhai airshow including the 2D and 3D TVC variants would indicate that. And I would imagine the same for WS-13 family.

 

[Indos]

Do not repeat USA lies here! The "Kurds" in Syria are none other than the terrorist PKK. Likewise, neither the USA nor the PKK has fought against ISIS. The USA allowed Russia and Iran to massacre civilians in Syria, what are you talking about?!

The deterioration in relations has nothing to do with Erdogan. This is a process that has been going on since the 1990s. No matter who comes to power in Turkiye, Turkiye's policy will not change.

If that is the case, and most Turk have the same opinion with you which will be reflected by your politicians, regardless Islamist or Nationalist, then your position with USA is Vulnerable, possible embargo can be imposed to your country

My suggestion is better to use Chinese engine and do detail design based on China engine. Regarding to local engine, Turkish has also had similar confident with their Altay program, and look what happen to the program now...........

10 years from now is not long by the way

 

[Oublious]

TF1118? Please give your guesses. I am really curious.

TF: turbofan?

TF should be Turbo fan but the rest nobody now.

@LeGenD


please clean the topic from indian engine stories...

this picture is on the website of TRmotor...

Projeler | TR Motor Güç Sistemleri

www.trmotor.com.tr

 

[merzifonlu]

My suggestion is better to use Chinese engine and do detail design based on China engine. Regarding to local engine, Turkish has also had similar confident with their Altay program, and look what happen to the program now.

It's probably already included in the plan.

We did not burden the arms industry out of our own pleasure. We did this because we never trusted the USA. Since the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq, that is, since the 1990s, the USA has consistently and persistently positioned itself against Turkey in every event.

Do you know when relationships were permanently and irreparably broken? In the 1990s, when we found out that USA helicopters were delivering weapons to the PKK!

 

[Indos]

It's probably already included in the plan.

We did not burden the arms industry out of our own pleasure. We did this because we never trusted the USA. Since the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq, that is, since the 1990s, the USA has consistently and persistently positioned itself against Turkey in every event.

Do you know when relationships were permanently and irreparably broken? In the 1990s, when we found out that USA helicopters were delivering weapons to the PKK!

China is also far away from you, unlike Indonesia, South Korea, and Japan. Unlikely you will have war with China. It is very comfortable for Turkish by seeing China advancement. Turkey defense industry has now very advanced, but we know for sure that turbofan engine is still dominated by US, Europe, Russia, and China. China has already used the engine for their J20.

Turkey can keep developing its turbofan engine program, but for this TFX I believe it is very farsighted if Turkey choses China engine if China allow it. I believe China will allow it considering they know your relationship with USA is not good, they will want to see Turkey getting closer to Chinese.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Let's see, India spent the better part of four decades on a medium engine and got only a couple of prototypes that never flew.

Now you will suddenly develop a "true" 5th gen engine with an Indian industry that never even put a turbojet into production like Iran was able to do with the Owj.

Good luck. We'll see where the AMCA engine is in a couple of years versus the WS-15 and WS-19 projects under way to power China's 5th gen.



Yes, Pakistan would be a good source for experience. It might even be an user of another Chinese powerplant in the WS-13 for the later JF-17 blocks.

As far as I know, the WS-10 family of engines is cleared for export with J-10CE. The fact they had put multiple variants of the WS-10 on display at the Zhuhai airshow including the 2D and 3D TVC variants would indicate that. And I would imagine the same for WS-13 family.

Those 4 decades of research is the reason why India is in the position to develop a 110kN engine in less than 10 years don’t forget that India is 6th nation in the world after US , Russia , France , UK and China to develop cutting edge Cryogenic engine technology

 

[GiantPanda]

Those 4 decades of research is the reason why India is in the position to develop a 110kN engine in less than 10 years don’t forget that India is 6th nation in the world after US , Russia , France , UK and China to develop cutting edge Cryogenic engine technology

Please stop. India has never put a jet engine to production so come back in 10 years okay? By then, I fully expect Turkey to be ahead with the TFX engine.

Your cryo engine technology gave India a grand total of exactly 2 launches last year. China had 55. Just stop.

 

[Hold the door]

China is also far away from you, unlike Indonesia, South Korea, and Japan. Unlikely you will have war with China. It is very comfortable for Turkish by seeing China advancement. Turkey defense industry has now very advanced, but we know for sure that turbofan engine is still dominated by US, Europe, Russia, and China. China has already used the engine for their J20.

Turkey can keep developing its turbofan engine program, but for this TFX I believe it is very farsighted if Turkey choses China engine if China allow it. I believe China will allow it considering they know your relationship with USA is not good, they will want to see Turkey getting closer to Chinese.

We don't trust China.

We are not close with China, but if they solve our engine problem in the first blocks, we will get closer.

At worst, we produce the F110 ourselves until we build the domestic engine.

 

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1597100058809634817

 

[GiantPanda]

We don't trust China.

We are not close with China, but if they solve our engine problem in the first blocks, we will get closer.

At worst, we produce the F110 ourselves until we build the domestic engine.

Perhaps, as suggested here, it might be Turkey's relationship with Pakistan and its experience with WS-10 in the J-10CE that'll decide if the WS-10 might be a solution.

This is from an article on the PAF pilots who trained on the J-10:

PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

This is what I got from the text above via Google Lens: J-10 is not light weight. Just becos it's single engine doesn't make it really small. J-10 is classify under medium weight fighter.

defence.pk

All the PAF pilots enjoyed basic handling, and confidence-building maneuvers in advanced handling missions, and in clean and tanked configurations both. This was followed by training in air combat tactics and instructor training for some of the PAF aircrew. The crews were taken aback after engaging afterburner (AB). The kick was bigger than the F-16. “There was an unbelievable amount of thrust when I opened up the afterburner for the first time. The J-10C can produce 29,000 lb thrust, which is 10,000 lbs excess thrust than the JF-17 produces, and as much power as two and a half Mirages put together. A single Mirage produces 14,000 lb thrust,” Sqn Ldr Jibran Rashid said. The speed increment was so fast that post-take-off procedures had to be executed in rapid succession to remain with the aircraft.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Best thing we ever did. There is no chance we will ever get hold of this aircraft, it’s choke full of US subsystems. And engines.

We would have spent years and lots of money and not gotten anything. Like the T129.
Americans as a matter of policy going forward aren’t going to allow Pak to obtain aircraft or attack helos.

Indeed. Can you guess how much Pakistan paid for the deposit on the T129?

 

[ESAx]

Turkiye has technology to develop its own turbofan engine which is similar to GE F110

İts not the trust level that will challenge TEI. TEI is confident that we will reach this level 35.000lb. İf we increase the radius of the TF-6000 turbofan engine by 15 cm, we will have reached the level of 35.000lb thrust. But there are some new technologies that will challenge TEI.

For example converging diverging nozzle technology and TEI is currently working on this technology

since the TFX is 5th gen stealth Fighter Jet program we need a new generation Engine. İt must be stealth

 

[Trango Towers]

Hei why are you always so emotional in talking with other member ? Chill out buddy. Here we are doing the conversation and discussing thing in respectful manner. I just saw your other "emotional" post in J31 thread LOL

That's emotional? Calling someone out with a slave mentality si not emotional. And I think I hit a raw nerve with you as you are emotional. Have a nice emotional day. Now jog on