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TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

You know I'm always quite critical concerning the time-frame and goals of the TFX/MMU and even more a potential Pakistani involvement, however this ... ?? :what:

How reliable is this statement?


1645522888929.png
 
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Deino said:
You know I'm always quite critical concerning the time-frame and goals of the TFX/MMU and even more a potential Pakistani involvement, however this ... ?? :what:

How reliable is this statement?


View attachment 817481
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I think Kotil's speaking style here is a sincere expression of emotion rather than a formal one. I prefer not to get caught up in these rumors until the official announcement is made.

As we all know very well, there is an intense diplomatic effort to make the risk sharing of the TFX(MMU) project multinational. In this context, harmonizing the new generation fighter jet under the vision of Pakistan AZM, within MMU has been one of the main working topics for a long time. Air force and aviation industry representatives of Pakistan and Turkiye have been carrying out this process recently with high-level delegations and subcommittees. I'm sure this kind of collaboration won't come as a surprise to anyone on the forum, but unless there's an official statement, it's good to be skeptical of such speculations.

The most important indicator for the people following these developments is that the MMU project is now in the PDR phase. Very briefly, if such a partnership is to become official, my view is that we should hear it 'officially' within 2022, by 2023 at the latest. I don't think that the political will (or even more the force command) in Turkiye can afford any slightest delay in the project, other than technical issues.

///

(For other subject matters in the image) Recently, the flank (and other placements) radars has also been discussed in Turkish defense circles. In the live broadcast of CNNTurk, Kotil did not go into details by first showing the flank radar location under cocpit and then saying confidential information.

As far as I know, this new engine cooling matters will become a common and most important necessity in new generation jet turbofans. We know that some other innovative solutions are being worked on in engine too, but many issues are in the rumor stage for us, both because the engine project is not as concrete as MMU project yet; and because the open source information flow in the project has really decreased/controlling recently.
 
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HRK said:
Just FYI ....

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal. @JamD
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Replied here
JamD said:
I don't like to repeat myself so here are a bunch of posts from the past year basically confirming collaboration with Turkey. Obviously, I didnt give a source but now you guys can be sure. @HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @kursed know exactly what I am talking about.


Also, Kotil is a very good salesman on top of being an engineer. He says what you want to hear. He is obviously blowing Pakistan's involvement out of proportion to make the Pakistanis around him happy and excited. Dr.Riaz next to him is PAF and has worked on our attempt at Azm. He may have played a role in the collaboration with Turkey. However, I maintain that we collaborated too late to be anything more than an advance customer.
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Yep. Temel Kotil and the other Turkish officials there are simply relaying Turkey's sales pitch to Pakistan.

IIRC, we haven't seen an official agreement re: MMU yet, but I think it's quite possible.

As @JamD pointed out, we probably missed the most valuable leg of the project, but it seems Turkey is still open to a relatively sizable co-production deal if we do finally commit. I can see our share being as high as 33%, which is quite a lot for a NGFA, and will catalyze a lot of growth in our industry.

Let's see, fingers crossed.

PS: Temel Kotil did inadvertently reveal the scale of our utility helicopter requirement, i.e., "quite large." The fact that TAI feels like it could pitch the local production of the T625 suggests this is a pretty big program.
 
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Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:
Yep. Temel Kotil and the other Turkish officials there are simply relaying Turkey's sales pitch to Pakistan.

IIRC, we haven't seen an official agreement re: MMU yet, but I think it's quite possible.

As @JamD pointed out, we probably missed the most valuable leg of the project, but it seems Turkey is still open to a relatively sizable co-production deal if we do finally commit. I can see our share being as high as 33%, which is quite a lot for a NGFA, and will catalyze a lot of growth in our industry.

Let's see, fingers crossed.

PS: Temel Kotil did inadvertently reveal the scale of our utility helicopter requirement, i.e., "quite large." The fact that TAI feels like it could pitch the local production of the T625 suggests this is a pretty big program.
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Just to make it crystal clear for everyone here: currently Pakistan is ANALYZING TFX in order to decide if Pakistan wants to buy in or not. This is my most recent information. This should tell you about our level of involvement in TFX. I know Kotil's statement has caused/will cause a firestorm on twitter and this forum - probably his intent too - but he is only being a good salesman and generating buzz. Dr. Riaz is having to play along lol.

EDIT: At the risk of adding to the firestorm, things may have changed from analysis to the decision to join (my info above being out of date), which would mean Kotil's statement is more factual than I think.
 
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MuslimRAJPUT said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1500047752499191809
Work on the Rolls Royce Engine has commenced.
Turkey has begun developing their national engine.
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Very sensible approach finally - there was issues around the intellectual property for the jet engine have some associated with Qatar which was not understandable to me at the time - but either way - it looks like that has been resolved.

Rolls-Royce is now involved in engines for the Tempest, TFX and the Japanese F-X stealth fighter. All of this guarantees the success of Tempest and helps build new intellectual property within Rolls-Royce.. Compare this with the EU lead FCAS programme where Airbus/Dassault are at each others throats arguing over who does what - and who owns which intellectual property and what is secret or not( ... doing anything with the French is a PAIN ) ... FCAS are hoping that Safran and the German MTU can design an engine for the FCAS - good luck with that !!!!

BAe is involved in Tempest and TF-X for airfame + concept design ...

Lenoardo UK is involved in Tempest and TF-X via the Jaguar radar programme ...

The UK can build productive relationships that help progress complex projects - the French cannot - nor can the Germans.

I do expect Tempest to suceed and I do expect it to clean up in the EU interms of weapons orders as they will have to deal with a restrictive french product or a more open working relationship with the Tempest platform and its partners ......
 
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