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TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

7 billion is only an estimate, large projects are bound to go over budget. And the company making it (TAI probably) will expect to make a profit per sale too.

Plus are we going to order 200?
Bu sabit yatırım maliyeti herhalde ayrıca üretilen her birim uçağın artı maliyeti olacak, her uçakta kullanılacak avionics,metal, motor, kablo ıvır zıvır maliyeti Buna dahil değildir.
35 milyon sabit maliyete artı 15 milyon parça maliyeti koyun.

Of course I don't know:) I wish 200 tfx were ordered.
 
Isn't Malaysia more advanced than Turkey in terms of technology?


No, we are more advanced but what we certainly can learn from them is making chips. They are 2 or 3 decade further then us period. When it comes to defence technology we are the most advanced in the Islamic world.

7 billion is only an estimate, large projects are bound to go over budget. And the company making it (TAI probably) will expect to make a profit per sale too.

Plus are we going to order 200?


First it was 10 billion...
 
According the wiki for 250 tfx fighters program costs 15-20 billion dollars.
Unit costs 100 million.
Hazreti wiki said like this..I'm not guilty:)
 
Thats just an estimation, nothing more
As in Altay
You pay an amount to make research about a project "Altay" and it costs est, "500 million"
Ok now you gave that 500 and you got a Tank, no you say "Who is gonna produce it for me*"
If you produce it yourself, you will spare that 500 milyon for every tank, it costs less as long as you produce
If you pick a company to produce it for you, they will take the schemes and produce it for you "probably cheaper for first batches", but for example if you give an order of 250, it will cost 5 mil, but if that order is for 500 tanks than the cost will be like 4m for a tank,
 
Thats just an estimation, nothing more
As in Altay
You pay an amount to make research about a project "Altay" and it costs est, "500 million"
Ok now you gave that 500 and you got a Tank, no you say "Who is gonna produce it for me*"
If you produce it yourself, you will spare that 500 milyon for every tank, it costs less as long as you produce
If you pick a company to produce it for you, they will take the schemes and produce it for you "probably cheaper for first batches", but for example if you give an order of 250, it will cost 5 mil, but if that order is for 500 tanks than the cost will be like 4m for a tank,
According the Ali KOÇ for Altay it has been spent almost 1 billion dollars by state and private companies.

İt is said that Turboprop HURKUS even costs 10 million.
 
PAKİSTAN PARTNER OLUR MU
Milli Muharip Uçak Projesine partner ülke olarak Pakistan da dahil edilmek isteniyor. Daha önce Çin ile birlikte savaş uçağı üreten Pakistan ile de bu kapsamda iyi niyet anlaşması üzerinde çalışma yürütüldüğü öğrenildi. Bu anlaşmanın da, gerekli çalışmaların tamamlanması halinde, İDEF’te imzalanabileceği belirtildi.

Will Pakistan be a partner?
It is being wanted to put Pakistan as a partner country in the National Fighter Aircraft project. It is learnt that the work is on-going to sign a good-will understanding (MOU maywith Pakistan, which has produced fighter aircrafts in cooperation with China before. This understanding, provided the necessary work is completed, may be signed during IDEF.

Hayirli olsun...May it bring (K)hair

*Personal note: As for the financial part, the sub-continental Muslims made the down payment long time back!!!
 
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According the Ali KOÇ for Altay it has been spent almost 1 billion dollars by state and private companies.

İt is said that Turboprop HURKUS even costs 10 million.
Just forget the numbers
What i mean is that, we pay some money for the research and development and have the rights of a product
and than we look for producers and that is totally different process
 
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Defence Turkey: The PDR (Preliminary Design Review) stage has been initiated within the scope of TF-X program, how will the following process proceed?


We launched a tender for a process comprising the PDR stage. PDR stage defines a process in which the design emerges and matures. Our greatest ambition is to accomplish the PDR Stage on-time. Upon accomplishment of this stage, all details of the aircraft will be revealed without putting a question mark in anyone’s mind. We are expecting to finalized the PDR stage by the end of 2019 or at the beginning of 2020.Then we will have the CDR (Critical Design Review) stage ahead and a long path towards the prototype production. The tender has been launched and the main contract is only comprised of the PDR stage for now. I believe that we will be able find out crucial inputs in this activity that is focused on design. You may address the question as to why we did not prefer a contract that included the prototype manufacturing as well. As an inexperienced country in this field, we deemed it more convenient to sort the program into phases in order to both reduce the risks and to monitor the contractor company’s performance better, and thus proceeding by staging the process in accordance with the performance of the company. As you know, a Foreign Cooperation Partner (YFI) to conduct technical cooperation has been selected at this stage. We decided to proceed by enhancing the acquired capabilities as part of the TF-X program.

We are not in doubt that we will unveil the first prototype in 2023; once we have identified the basic parameters of the aircraft, we have operational requirements, then we will gradually introduce evolutionary processes that will fulfill these requirements stage by stage. The acquirement of additional capabilities and retrofits are aimed for the following stages: regarding the software, hardware and various aero-dynamic structural components of the aircraft, which is to be acquired after the identification of the main parameters as well as with the F-35 JSF program. We plan to clearly define our operational conditions in the initial stage and then build a fully operational Fighter Jet by proceeding stage by stage.

Defence Turkey: When is the engine selection planned to take place as part of the program?

We will be frequently discussing the criteria on the engine selection within the year ahead. All parties of decision makers mutually agreed on a twin-engine aircraft last year. Similar to platform development, engine development also consists of various stages. We are delighted about the integration of the unique engine to our Indigenous Fighter Jet, but this may sound a bit assertive. Therefore, throughout the development process of the aircraft, the selection of a certain engine already proved itself and whether or not to use this type of an engine throughout the prototype stage, are still being discussed.

We have specific options in this stage; it may be possible to combine two concepts. This implies that when we select the engine we may be able to integrate it at the prototype phase, we may conduct the process with the same company by outlining the following stage and combining it with the unique engine development phase during the prototype stage. Such a strategy may also come up on the agenda.

Defence Turkey: Dear Undersecretary, will the approach for completely domestic participation continue in the production of the critical technologies, especially within the scope of the TF-X program? Or do you aim to cooperate with foreign companies through joint development, joint production models regarding certain technologies, as also seen in the main program?

We aim to attain the critical technology entirely with home production modality. We learned the hard way that obstacles emerged when the sub-systems and critical technologies are not developed through local resources. We experienced in the past and present that we may confront various problems and restrictions in the procurement of the technologies due to external dependency. Mostly, this disadvantage is being utilized as type of repression. Within this scope, during the development stage, it may be possible to procure identified components or systems from the parties with which we have good cooperation with or from parties willing to cooperate, but we will not give up our ultimate goals of home production. Even though we have quite good cooperation for the time being, we may not know how they will proceed in the future. We will particularly focus on the indigenization of critical technologies and will pave the way for a basis for the activities to this end.

Defence Turkey: Have there been any discussions about including different countries in this program, and to possibly turn the program into a multi-national one? Is a different picture emerging throughout the PDR stage and what type of infrastructure activities are occurring that may relate to this?

We have a positive stance regarding this issue. The financing of complex and complicated programs like this one is quite high, then again, we are aware of the fact that there are a limited number of countries all over the world attempting to conduct such a major program. We need to approach the issue from this perspective. In case a chance for very long term cooperation is possible and if the countries with which we have long-standing cooperation are interested in the program, we may consider their participation. We have no prejudice in this respect.

http://www.defenceturkey.com/en/con...se-for-the-future-independence-of-turkey-2654

kbPoaq.jpg


Defence Turkey: TÜBİTAK BİLGEM assumed a critical role in the development of the mission computer of the aircraft as part of the T-FX program. What are your comments on the project team established to this end and on the latest status of the activities conducted?


Avionic systems based on advanced level integrated modular avionic architecture started to be used in modern air platform systems as they are scalable, and as they enable technology retrofit and diminish the life cycle costs. The advanced avionic architecture in the 5th Generation Modern Fighter Jets such as F-35/JSF enables the effective utilization of decision support and mission systems through the real time central sensor and data fusion used for increasing the operation and mission performance.

Within the scope of the Indigenous Fighter Jet (TF-X) development program, since 2015, TÜBİTAK BİLGEM has been contributing to the design activities executed for the avionic architecture and systems with its team that has expertise in avionic software and hardware, radar, electro-optical systems and electronic warfare.

TÜBİTAK BİLGEM will be assuming the main responsibility in the Integrated Processing Unit (IPU) technology development project providing advanced modular avionic technologies to the Indigenous Fighter Jet. The IPU unique mission computer to be developed by TÜBİTAK BİLGEM is in a sense a super computer which will be the brain of the Indigenous Fighter Jet.

The IPU mission computer containing multi-core processors, high performance graphic processors and digital signal processors will be designed and developed through indigenous and local resources as part of this program. The interchangeable cards are placed within a rack mechanic structure as modules. GZiS, our avionic operating system developed by TÜBİTAK BİLGEM will be integrated with the IPU by adding new features.

Since the IPU unique mission computer will be running the process of the data received from sensors such as the radar and electro-optics of the aircraft through its data processing capability, it will be beyond a standard mission computer. All avionic functions, signal and data processing functions related with the communication, electronic warfare, radar and mission management will be capable of functioning over the hardware modules integrated with each other as software.

Another novelty in the critical technology is the re-configurability of the IPU mission computer in-flight. This feature will enable more allocation of the IPU hardware modules to the avionic software specific to the task during the execution of various missions such as surveillance and electronic warfare.

The functional integration of the Indigenous Fighter Jet’s mission systems increases efficiency and effectiveness, yet high speed and reliable network infrastructure is required. Within the context of the IPU project, the high speed deterministic avionic network technology will be domestically designed and developed.

Our expert avionics team from TÜBİTAK BİLGEM has been working on the identification of the fifth-generation fighter jet avionic architecture and IPU mission computer, coalescing with TAI’s Project Team for almost two years. The contract negotiations for the development of the IPU mission computer are being conducted with TAI. Within this period, until the signing of the contract, TÜBİTAK BİLGEM has built a project team through its own resources composed of 20 engineers and has launched the activities for the development of certain critical technologies of the program. 23 teammates currently are charged with on the Real Time Operating System (RTOS) which will establish the software infrastructure of the Mission Computer. Soon this number will reach 28 staff and it will increase further in time. The fruit of our team’s efforts of over ten years - the RTOS was integrated to the Digital Flight Control Computer (DFCC) of the Hürkuş Aircraft at the Demirkuş Testing Environment. The following phase of this project is its certification of airworthiness over Hürkuş-B and outfitting with mass production of Hürkuş Aircrafts. This will be an important step on our way to TF-X program. Our other integration activity, similar to DFCC, is being executed over the SARP Stabilized Advanced Remote Weapon Platform and I would like to underline that this study is about to be completed as well.

Defence Turkey: What kind of technological advantages will this Indigenous Mission Computer bring to the end-user? It is one of the critical technologies of the T-FX program, please share some details.

With its high technology, this IPU indigenous mission computer will play crucial roles in fulfilling the future operation and mission requirements of the Indigenous Fighter Jet. The sensor data coming through the high speed avionic network of the mission systems such as radar, electronic warfare, communication, electro-optical monitoring, targeting and weapon systems of the Indigenous Fighter Jet will be centrally processed and integrated at the IPU computer. Then this integrated data formed will be conveyed into reliable and accurate information and transmitted to the pilot. Thus, the lighten pilot’s work-load consist of controlling the aircraft and examining the data arriving separately will be reduced, thus this process will assistance the pilot to focus his main battle missions. Due to the high speed, reliable, high capacity and integrated modular avionic based IPU indigenous mission computer, detecting the hazard and responding period will be minimized and thus the superiority will be achieved against hostile units.

The Mission Computer will fuse the data obtained from non-aircraft sources through wireless data links and its high performance data processing capability, providing pilots a high level of situational awareness as the aircraft is able to see threats before they are visibly seen. The architecture of the Mission Computer will be configured in accordance with the flight phases and enable the utilization of the computer sources at an optimum level and also enable system recovery in cases of breakdown. The software architecture of the Mission Computer will enable the retrofit of ageing hardware components without being changed or with minimum change.

http://www.defenceturkey.com/en/con...urkey-s-technology-management-eco-system-2657
 

It would be financially a disaster because the costs would be to high.
Indigenous products is nice but you need to keep an eye on the costs and exporting and thus making money from TFX would be a relieve to the Turkish tax payer.
 

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