TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Silahtar]

Science, Industry and Technology Minister Ozlu: "We will announce the national warplane's calendar soon"

Özlü: Savaş uçağı projesini yakında açıklayacağız
İlk yerli otomobille ilgili modelin önümüzdeki günlerde açıklanacağını belirten Bilim, Sanayi ve Teknoloji Bakanı Faruk Özlü, "Türkiye bir savaş uçağı projesi üzerine çalışıyor. Takvimle ilgili açıklamalarımız yakında olacak" diye konuştu.

TBMM Genel Kurulunda, vergi dilimi nedeniyle ekim, kasım ve aralık aylarında ücretleri bin 300 TL'nin altına düşen asgari ücretliler için aradaki farkı telafi etmeyi öngören Gelir Vergisi Kanunu'nda Değişiklik Yapılmasına Dair Kanun Teklifi'nin maddeleri görüşüldü.

Teklifin birinci maddesi üzerinde milletvekillerinin sorularını yanıtlayan Özlü, kendi dönemlerinde asgari ücretin net yüzde 121 artış gösterdiğini vurguladı.

Yerli otomobil ve yerli uçakla ilgili bir soru üzerine Özlü, "Bu konularda çalışıyoruz. Önümüzdeki günlerde ilk yerli otomobille ilgili modeli açıklayacağız. Türkiye bir savaş uçağı projesi üzerine çalışıyor. Takvimle ilgili açıklamalarımız yakında olacak." açıklamasını yaptı.

http://www.yenisafak.com/ekonomi/ozlu-savas-ucagi-projesini-yakinda-aciklayacagiz-2554349

 

[Glass]

how many tf-x will we have by 2023?

 

[kartal1]

how many tf-x will we have by 2023?

This is sarcasm right? As far as I know 2023 is the first flight of TFX. Maybe some prototypes untill then but I dont think by 2023 we will have some in invertory.

 

[Glass]

but by 2025 we will have a couple of them in our inventory right ?

 

[kartal1]

but by 2025 we will have a couple of them in our inventory right ?

I hope so. We must hope the things dont go like Altay regarding the serial production.

 

[neosinan]

No It is highly unlikely to have Tfx in inventory before 2030. After maiden flight, Fighters at least need 5 years to refine it's design.

 

[Glass]

14 years till they are in our inventory dayum

 

[bsruzm]

Allah'ım ölmeden görsem neye benzediğini...

Hopefully, we also see it before 2023, it's first flight

 

[kartal1]

Allah'ım ölmeden görsem neye benzediğini...

Hopefully, we also see it before 2023, it's first flight

Inshallah

 

[Pax Ottomana]

2023 is closer than many of us realize. It's almost 2017 already. A fighter is an extremely complex product that consists of many specialized parts and subsystems, from radar to engine. I do believe that Aselsan can and will field a good AESA for it by then. But unless we buy off the shelf or license-produce, I don't see TEI putting together a capable engine (2 of them per aircraft) in 6 years. It's simply not that kind of company.

Engine is arguably the most important part of the aircraft. It's a maker-or-breaker sort of thing and unless we solve that problem we're not going to have our own fighter.

Best option for Turkey would be to simply purchase the design and intellectual/sales rights of an older but sufficient engine like the P&W F100. Of course it'd have to be a variant without the compressor stall problems that the early F-100s suffered from.

Two of these in a tandem configuration will throw in 46,000 lbs of thrust, enough to power the TFX and then some.

If the P&W or the US Senate won't agree to selling the engine's intellectual rights to Turkey, them Turkey should consider a European or Russian alternative. But we have to do this now and not wait until it's 2022 and the problem slaps us right in the face!

This would allow Turkey to "get the ball rolling" and put together a completed fighter on schedule. TEI and Tubitak can then be tasked with making improvements on the existing engine to power serially produced TFX batches.

 

[Baybars Han]

2023 is closer than many of us realize. It's almost 2017 already. A fighter is an extremely complex product that consists of many specialized parts and subsystems, from radar to engine. I do believe that Aselsan can and will field a good AESA for it by then. But unless we buy off the shelf or license-produce, I don't see TEI putting together a capable engine (2 of them per aircraft) in 6 years. It's simply not that kind of company.

Engine is arguably the most important part of the aircraft. It's a maker-or-breaker sort of thing and unless we solve that problem we're not going to have our own fighter.

Best option for Turkey would be to simply purchase the design and intellectual/sales rights of an older but sufficient engine like the P&W F100. Of course it'd have to be a variant without the compressor stall problems that the early F-100s suffered from.

Two of these in a tandem configuration will throw in 46,000 lbs of thrust, enough to power the TFX and then some.

If the P&W or the US Senate won't agree to selling the engine's intellectual rights to Turkey, them Turkey should consider a European or Russian alternative. But we have to do this now and not wait until it's 2022 and the problem slaps us right in the face!

This would allow Turkey to "get the ball rolling" and put together a completed fighter on schedule. TEI and Tubitak can then be tasked with making improvements on the existing engine to power serially produced TFX batches.

I think the engine will be a British company engine. It looks impossible to make an indigenous fighter engine this quickly, it even took the Chinese years to make one and I dont know if its even ready for the J-20 yet.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I think the engine will be a British company engine. It looks impossible to make an indigenous fighter engine this quickly, it even took the Chinese years to make one and I dont know if its even ready for the J-20 yet.

Yes, it's true that Rolls-Royce wants to sell engines (off-the-shelf) for TFX, the same engine (EJ2000) hat powers the Eurofighter.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...engine-for-turkish-made-fighter-jet/76890154/

But as I understand it, they don't want to give up the engine's intellectual rights to TEI/Turkey. This model of procurement is of course fast, but it would keep Turkey from making modifications to the engine and has the potential of serious issues with replacement/spare parts (during wartime) as well as exporting the TFX in the future. It's a bad idea.

 

[neosinan]

Nobody sells their turbojet/turbofan engine design. It is that simple. You can have all the money but that wouldn't happen. Eg; China

RR is offering to build a manufacturing plant in Turkey and They also planning r&d center in Turkey (independent from the deal) . If all the critical Spare part can be manufactured in Turkey that would be best deal Anybody can get. I think SSM is working toward this sorta solution.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I think you're referring to the the Saturn AL-117 engines? China isn't trying to buy the Russian engine's design, it's trying the copy it and call it its own. With China being one of Russia's biggest customers as well as a long-term strategic partner against the US/the West, they have a special and complex relationship. That's not the case between Turkey and the West.

There's nothing in this world that doesn't have a price tag, certainly no jet engine. I'm not suggesting that Turkey go and try purchasing the top-of-the line jet engine technology. I'm suggesting we buy off an "older but sufficient" design. Sufficient for the purposes of ensuring adequate propulsion for the first few TFX fighters, and sufficient for establishing a baseline technology level in engine know-how that we can build upon, saving us valuable time.

If we go with what the Brits are selling, the Brits will have pretty much full control. As for an R&D center, it doesn't add up to anything other than "goz boyama" like we say in Turkish. The devil's hidden in the details and we need to be able to read in between the lines and look at the effects of what we're doing today at 10-20 years down the road. If we BUY an older design, it'll undoubtedly also give us an R&D center as the purpose, by definition, is to meet today's needs AND build upon that technology for the future needs.

If we want to be independent, we must do it on our own. Brits may allow us to build some parts for their engines, but it'll come with a certain set of conditions attached. Conditions that may and probably will tie Turkey's hands at some point in the future. Considering Turkey's complex geopolitics, we must always opt for the option with the least strings attached. That's why it's better to simply buy an older tech and then nationalize it, build upon it.

Ergo, do with the jet engine what we did with the T-129, Firtina and Altay...

 

[sehnaz]

I think you're referring to the the Saturn AL-117 engines? China isn't trying to buy the Russian engine's design, it's trying the copy it and call it its own. With China being one of Russia's biggest customers as well as a long-term strategic partner against the US/the West, they have a special and complex relationship. That's not the case between Turkey and the West.

There's nothing in this world that doesn't have a price tag, certainly no jet engine. I'm not suggesting that Turkey go and try purchasing the top-of-the line jet engine technology. I'm suggesting we buy off an "older but sufficient" design. Sufficient for the purposes of ensuring adequate propulsion for the first few TFX fighters, and sufficient for establishing a baseline technology level in engine know-how that we can build upon, saving us valuable time.

If we go with what the Brits are selling, the Brits will have pretty much full control. As for an R&D center, it doesn't add up to anything other than "goz boyama" like we say in Turkish. The devil's hidden in the details and we need to be able to read in between the lines and look at the effects of what we're doing today at 10-20 years down the road. If we BUY an older design, it'll undoubtedly also give us an R&D center as the purpose, by definition, is to meet today's needs AND build upon that technology for the future needs.

If we want to be independent, we must do it on our own. Brits may allow us to build some parts for their engines, but it'll come with a certain set of conditions attached. Conditions that may and probably will tie Turkey's hands at some point in the future. Considering Turkey's complex geopolitics, we must always opt for the option with the least strings attached. That's why it's better to simply buy an older tech and then nationalize it, build upon it.

Ergo, do with the jet engine what we did with the T-129, Firtina and Altay...

yes you are right.Turkey should buy old engin designs with fully IP