TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[dBSPL]

The MMU project contains many innovations in itself, but the other main issue is the concepts of operations that will evolve with it and the other systems that will support the MMU.

JEMSAH, which will mimic the radar signatures of other aircraft as false targets, or detect/blind radar sources; KE and ANKA-3 supersonic unmanned combat aircraft for interception and initial engagement; MMU fifth-generation jets in the secondary layer; very high altitude UAV-SAR systems, Air SOJ and AEW-C aircrafts; and the new gen data links, which enables the simultaneous command and control of these dozens of aircraft...

While the ability to use dozens of such combat platforms operationally in the air at the same time is a phenomenon that only 6-8 air forces have been able to achieve even today, you have to develop this further and take it to the fifth generation in its entirety.

So, developing a fifth-generation fighter is difficult. But the real challenge is to create a fifth-generation air combat concept and ensure that all parts of the system are interoperable within the criteria required by the fifth generation.

In this respect, the MMU project is a system of systems that includes not only the fighter jet itself, but also many other flying platforms that you have seen in other threads of this forum, including avionics and ground systems. As an last example, the ANKA-3 steatlh bomber, which was officially announced today, is essentially an extension of the MMU concepts.

 

[aziqbal]

glad Turkey dropped the F35 project now

few months ago I was thinking it was a big mistake and maybe it was who knows

but now there seems to be a urgency to get a full spectrum of aviation projects off the ground and in the air and not just TFX

F35 would not be integrated into the Turkish battle system like TFX will be because its all home built

maybe F35 would become a handicap in the long term for Turkey and also US would have so much influence over Turkey

TFX will not only change the military dynamics but also political

 

[[TR]AHMET]

glad Turkey dropped the F35 project now

few months ago I was thinking it was a big mistake and maybe it was who knows

but now there seems to be a urgency to get a full spectrum of aviation projects off the ground and in the air and not just TFX

F35 would not be integrated into the Turkish battle system like TFX will be because its all home built

maybe F35 would become a handicap in the long term for Turkey and also US would have so much influence over Turkey

TFX will not only change the military dynamics but also political

Actually still no one understand that what we done as politicial and military tactics but future military and politician books will explain everything bro, process still going on stand by with deep patince.

 

[Oublious]

Mr Gungor: MURAD Aesa radar will be delivered in 1 month to Baykar.

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Mr Gungor: MURAD Aesa radar will be delivered in 1 month to Baykar.

Is it for Akinci or Kizilelma? I m so curious about EASA radar which will be integrated on drones. After drones have AESA it would be game changer for our skyes. I m sure akinci and kizielma will lighten F16's duty load with their air superiority.

 

[Horse_Rider]

glad Turkey dropped the F35 project now

few months ago I was thinking it was a big mistake and maybe it was who knows

but now there seems to be a urgency to get a full spectrum of aviation projects off the ground and in the air and not just TFX

F35 would not be integrated into the Turkish battle system like TFX will be because its all home built

maybe F35 would become a handicap in the long term for Turkey and also US would have so much influence over Turkey

TFX will not only change the military dynamics but also political

If I was Erdogan, I'd have stayed glued to the F-35 project!! This is the ONLY program after the F-22 where the TOP NOTCH tech is being used with top notch stealth aircraft manufacturing techniques. Turkish defense industry is growing and it's fine. But to think that the TFX would be at F-35 level or have the tech the F-35 does, is nonsense.

If they really wanted to upset the Americans, why not do it after inducting F-35? To me, F-35's capability is much more than S-400 that has been jammed in Syria various times by the US and Israel.

F-35 is so important to nations that the UAE accepted Israel and normalized many decades long broken relationships with them.

 

[Silicon0000]

If I was Erdogan, I'd have stayed glued to the F-35 project!! This is the ONLY program after the F-22 where the TOP NOTCH tech is being used with top notch stealth aircraft manufacturing techniques. Turkish defense industry is growing and it's fine. But to think that the TFX would be at F-35 level or have the tech the F-35 does, is nonsense.

If they really wanted to upset the Americans, why not do it after inducting F-35? To me, F-35's capability is much more than S-400 that has been jammed in Syria various times by the US and Israel.

F-35 is so important to nations that the UAE accepted Israel and normalized many decades long broken relationships with them.

These decisions has lot more dimensions than we as outsider can think. Things are not as simple as it looks. That issue is probably not limited to S-400 only or F-35 only.



On a side note, I have seen lots of your posts and you seems to be a good learner but you need to listen more and give yourself some time before reaching your decisions. No offence just a suggestion. Kindly ignore if you found it provoking.

 

[Horse_Rider]

These decisions has lot more dimensions than we as outsider can think. Things are not as simple as it looks. That issue is probably not limited to S-400 only or F-35 only.

On a side note, I have seen lots of your posts and you seems to be a good learner but you need to listen more and give yourself some time before reaching your decisions. No offence just a suggestion. Kindly ignore if you found it provoking.

The S-400 dimension was just it. The S-400. What we don't know is WHY at this critical time, Erdogan thought it was SO critical to jeopardize a dozen super critical projects with the US / NATO. There was nothing else outside of the S-400. Both India and Turkey were off to it. India got away as it's non-Nato. Turkey got the short end of the stick.

I'm a learner . That's funny. What made you think I'm a "learner" here?

 

[Silicon0000]

The S-400 dimension was just it. The S-400. What we don't know is WHY at this critical time, Erdogan thought it was SO critical to jeopardize a dozen super critical projects with the US / NATO. There was nothing else outside of the S-400. Both India and Turkey were off to it. India got away as it's non-Nato. Turkey got the short end of the stick.

I'm a learner . That's funny. What made you think I'm a "learner" here?

End of discussion. Period.

 

[hyperman]

The S-400 dimension was just it. The S-400. What we don't know is WHY at this critical time, Erdogan thought it was SO critical to jeopardize a dozen super critical projects with the US / NATO. There was nothing else outside of the S-400. Both India and Turkey were off to it. India got away as it's non-Nato. Turkey got the short end of the stick.

I'm a learner . That's funny. What made you think I'm a "learner" here?

The F-35 denial over the s-400 is just cover. They found a convenient excuse. They are ready to sell Greece F-35s even though it currently operates a very modern and capable s-300 system, and the Russians recently upgraded and modernized the system for Greece. I don't see how much of a gap there is between an recently upgraded s-300 system and an s-400, but enough to warrant kicking out Turkey? I don't think so(Not to mention I would not be surprised if F-35B or C sales were made to india, which was given CAATSA exemptions b/c if its importance in counter balancing china, and the US strategy in the indo-pacific). Turkey even offered to shut down and mothball the system, but the state dept refused, so it goes to show it was likely never about the S-400. If they didn't use the S-400, they would have found another excuse. They would have taken it away over Turkey launching operations removing the PKK in Syria. Or they would have taken it away via retribution from Greek and Armenian lobbies, over Turkey helping Azerbaijan or with Turkey and the Aegian policies.

The question one needs to ask is, is the F-35 worth allowing a PKK state south of Turkey's border, a state which the PKK will eventually use to launch attacks into Turkey to create a breakaway state inside Turkey, which I'm sure will please quite a few western analysts and policy makers who have hatred towards Turkey and are wary of its growth as a middle power.

Is the F-35 worth not coming to Azerbaijan's aid during the Karabakh war?

If the F-35 worth ceding the Aegian and letting Greece push maximalist positions in the Aegian?

The next question they will try to raise is trying to destroy the Republic of Northern Cyprus, and either reduce the Turkish Cypriots to the same condition of Turks in Western Thrace(state violence and suppression), or outright exterminating them like what happened to Turks in Crete(Cretan Turks)

When you factor in these things and the fact that post soviet collapse, where they didn't need Turkey to help counterbalance Soviet hegemony(current events have somewhat changed that calculation a bit, with the Russian invasion of Ukraine), and the fact that they are wary of a middle power emerging in the Orient, that functions outside of their Geopolitical nexus. The Idea that the F-35 would have even come to Turkey is suspect IMO(they are even trying to currently block new f-16 modernizations and sales in Congress with Bob Menendez) , it could have been blocked at any moment.

 

[Horse_Rider]

End of discussion. Period.

I don't have to end anything. You can chicken out because your post had no value or logic.

The F-35 denial over the s-400 is just cover. They found a convenient excuse. They are ready to sell Greece F-35s even though it currently operates a very modern and capable s-300 system, and the Russians recently upgraded and modernized the system for Greece. I don't see how much of a gap there is between an recently upgraded s-300 system and an s-400, but enough to warrant kicking out Turkey? I don't think so(Not to mention I would not be surprised if F-35B or C sales were made to india, which was given CAATSA exemptions b/c if its importance in counter balancing china, and the US strategy in the indo-pacific). Turkey even offered to shut down and mothball the system, but the state dept refused, so it goes to show it was likely never about the S-400. If they didn't use the S-400, they would have found another excuse. They would have taken it away over Turkey launching operations removing the PKK in Syria. Or they would have taken it away via retribution from Greek and Armenian lobbies, over Turkey helping Azerbaijan or with Turkey and the Aegian policies.

The question one needs to ask is, is the F-35 worth allowing a PKK state south of Turkey's border, a state which the PKK will eventually use to launch attacks into Turkey to create a breakaway state inside Turkey, which I'm sure will please quite a few western analysts and policy makers who have hatred towards Turkey and are wary of its growth as a middle power.

Is the F-35 worth not coming to Azerbaijan's aid during the Karabakh war?

If the F-35 worth ceding the Aegian and letting Greece push maximalist positions in the Aegian?

The next question they will try to raise is trying to destroy the Republic of Northern Cyprus, and either reduce the Turkish Cypriots to the same condition of Turks in Western Thrace(state violence and suppression), or outright exterminating them like what happened to Turks in Crete(Cretan Turks)

When you factor in these things and the fact that post soviet collapse, where they didn't need Turkey to help counterbalance Soviet hegemony(current events have somewhat changed that calculation a bit, with the Russian invasion of Ukraine), and the fact that they are wary of a middle power emerging in the Orient, that functions outside of their Geopolitical nexus. The Idea that the F-35 would have even come to Turkey is suspect IMO(they are even trying to currently block new f-16 modernizations and sales in Congress with Bob Menendez) , it could have been blocked at any moment.

Thanks for the writeup. The issue isn't just F-35's, That's the most significant project from an optics standpoint and that it was Turkey's first to-be 5th gen platform being built for a decade. But the bigger hit comes from a dozen other projects. It's wrong to say the Turks said "they'd stop, cancel or won't operationalize the S-400. Turkiye was adamant about it. I believe they might've thought that India would get a waiver and they will too. But they forgot the reality. And India will be offered F-35's, whether they take it or not.

 

[Silicon0000]

I don't have to end anything. You can chicken out because your post had no value or logic.



Thanks for the writeup. The issue isn't just F-35's, That's the most significant project from an optics standpoint and that it was Turkey's first to-be 5th gen platform being built for a decade. But the bigger hit comes from a dozen other projects. It's wrong to say the Turks said "they'd stop, cancel or won't operationalize the S-400. Turkiye was adamant about it. I believe they might've thought that India would get a waiver and they will too. But they forgot the reality. And India will be offered F-35's, whether they take it or not.

Yes I agree with you, those who don't want to listen and learn, my post or anyone else post can't be of any value. Thanks for your sweet and kind reply.

 

[hyperman]

It's wrong to say the Turks said "they'd stop, cancel or won't operationalize the S-400. Turkiye was adamant about it.

Turkey was adamant in not transferring the s-400, they wanted turkey to give them the s-400, Turkey said no(it would have deteriorated turkish russians relations), that it wasn't leaving Turkey, and they offered mothballing and keeping it at Incirlik Air Base(jointly operated US Turkish base), but the state dept refused to listen.

 

[ziya]

Everyone are downgraded the S400 system,but if you have a good layered air defence system to protect S400 then it can be used against large and slow targets,such as tankers,awacs,reconnicance drones,cargo planes,,etc… from very longe ranges,thats a good advantage.

 

[Horse_Rider]

Yes I agree with you, those who don't want to listen and learn, my post or anyone else post can't be of any value. Thanks for your sweet and kind reply.

"Those who don't want to listen and learn"? what if the person you are responding to have ten times more experience than you can imagine?