Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed.

[Blue Marlin]

thanks, appreciated

 

[forcetrip]

No offense man, I have always regarded your posts with respect even if I vehemently disagree with them.

Hoping I am not going off -topic I would like to offer a rebuttal.

You are right when you say India has the motive and means to sponsor TTP inside Pakistan. I would be lying if I refuted this.

Now motive and means are not sufficient to indict someone specially a country. We require hard evidence too and so far we have seen little to none verified evidences of our support to TTP.

What you would like from us is the proof of our non involvement - unfortunately as of yet there is no way to proove a negative.

On the other hand it is quite possible we were involved with BLA which was in response to Kashmir and Punjab but I hope you would take my word on it that any such support has been put on hold after the last tragedy. With Involvement of China and Russia we even decided to co-operate in issues regarding terrorism which included terrorism in Pakistan too. Would have been a great opportunity for our agencies to exchange information on TTP and their supply lines in Afganishtan. Both India and Pakistan would have prevailed on Afganishtan to attack these terrorist sanctuaries but that chance was lost. TTP is no friend on India and with it's linkages with ISIS our agencies would not touch them with a 100 ft pole. We have a common interest in eradicating TTP and other groups in Afganishtan so that S. Asia can get peace back.

Thus you see mate - our interests are converging and behind the seen via US there is lot of intelligence being passed on about TTP and ISIS from Indian sources in Afganishtan.

The absence of evidence is no evidence at all. TTP is no enemy of India. We will provide you with dossiers like you provided us with. And the wheel will keep turning. There was a time 15 years ago our intel agencies were on the offensive and after 9/11 they got on the back foot. The pool we have to play with is not just the odd number of Kashmiris anymore. In 15 years after 1998 that pool has grown to 200 million. All that is required is the amount of money that India is playing with. If in 5 years we somehow match our enemies dollar for dollar in proxy war chests with a little help from our friends, Who do you think will be on top?

 

[Bratva]

Wait 3 days. That's all i am going to say.

Itnay app bengaali baba rehtay nahi

 

[Spectre]

The absence of evidence is no evidence at all. TTP is no enemy of India. We will provide you with dossiers like you provided us with. And the wheel will keep turning. There was a time 15 years ago our intel agencies were on the offensive and after 9/11 they got on the back foot. The pool we have to play with is not just the odd number of Kashmiris anymore. In 15 years after 1998 that pool has grown to 200 million. All that is required is the amount of money that India is playing with. If in 5 years we somehow match our enemies dollar for dollar in proxy war chests with a little help from our friends, Who do you think will be on top?

This game has no winners mate, only losers. I would love to debate you on the 200 Mil number and the friends angle but I think this is not the thread for it.

 

[forcetrip]

This game has no winners mate, only losers. I would love to debate you on the 200 Mil number and the friends angle but I think this is not the thread for it.

But of course. I was just trying to invigorate the stories of the what if's. Us not being members of the intelligence agencies putting forward theories of no evidence on this forum equals to India having no funds to TTP or any other anti Pakistani outfit.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Cowardly attack on people busy offering prayers. Glad the terrorists were sent to hell. Time to retaliate with full-swing. It wont be complete till we go after their financiers/backers across the border.

RIP to the Martyrs. Their deaths will be avenged God willing

In dirty games of geopliticis when it comes to safeguarding own national interests, it becomes a pure case of "enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenrio. Throughout the history world has seen very strange bed-fellows when it comes to inflicting damage on the enemy.

Thus the thoughts of USA sponsoring likes of OBL and Mujahideen (the predecessor of Talibans), inviting them to the White House and equating them with Founding Fathers of the Nation would make absolutely no sense in academic circles, but reality says otherwise.

Right now India has every reason and motivation to support TTP. They don't have to agree with their ideology and at the face of it even arrange spordic fights with them to make a point. Don't we see similar things happening in Syria where the worst of fanatics are being supported none other than the West to fight against Asad?

So while the likes of Ajit Devil, Manohar and co sitting in the govt, Modi pating them on the back, and ready foot soldiers available in Afghanistan in form of TTP, Northern Alliance etc, you are telling me, India is just not interested and not providing them any support (financial, training etc.).?

Well even a 10th grade pupil can count these simple factors. There is a load of hard evidence available, also provided to the relevant powers. Of course no single power in the world is at the moment interested in going against the business interests that they have with India and hence won't say it loud. Now and then, we do hear odd voices like that of Chuck Hagel's etc, which get burried under the other media frency going on.

The world of evidence is quite crazy, can you prove that USA has supported OBL in the past and is supporting all those fanatics against Asad in Syria? Good luck with that! All what counts is the perception which media plants in the minds of masses and not the reality. Therefore, there is fat chance that India will get away with it at least for now.

we already know its well-established that india supports TTP, BLA and other groups......what our response will be to this as well as ceasefire violations @ LoC/working boundary will be seen soon i really hope

 

[waz]

Even while he was injured, Captain Asfandyar sent four scum bags to hell before achieving martyrdom.
Thank you warrior may you rest in peace.

Allah Akbar....

 

[DV RULES]

I feel sad that despite spending so much time on PDF people have no idea how LIC work. Firstly, the ISI is not the boogyman, it's an organisation manned by humans. Therefore, from a number of threats that arise in any security calulation set ups some would be captured some would be missed or be encountered later on. This loop is regretted but entirely unavoidable, India has not experienced the same level of LIC as we have so this may be condonable for you guys to get. It was the raised level of alert that thwarted the TTP from doing any real damage. Yes, you read that right: this number of casualty is not real damage as we are at war. Literally.

Secondly, the enemy adapts the local population to camouflage itself in. By eye, you cannot tell who's the TTP and who isn't, this is not a political problem as most people think but a cultural one. For centuries the pakhtun culture, which is highly individualistic, values armament, simplicity and rugged lifestyle. If you were to visit KPK then most of the time you'd be jumping and screaming (not meaning you personally just using second-pov) most of the time because most of the male population looks like the boogyman terrorist you're used to seeing on the media. Though, they're just like you and me, many are highly educated and we're no one to judge them. Thus, the TTP succeed in blending in, notice the timing of the attack, most probably, it was during change of guard where the vigilance hits a low and they attacked. Yet, this was a TTP defeat, not a PAF one. Compare what happened to previous attacks.

If you need more conviction that Pak armed forces have broken the backs of the TTP then I'd like to inform you that the US visits us and tries to learn from us how to perform well in LICs. FYI, Swat valley ops were the biggest urban infantry battle since WWII (and we did much better than the US in Falujah). Next, the more desperate the attacks get the more they signal the last attempts of TTP, here their most probable target were families, not equipment.

Thirdly, this attack was to cause as much damage as possible, not hold something (strategic) or damage something invaluable (like planes, hardware, even tarmac!) but just to kill people. Most of them non-combatants in an attempt to demoralise the nation, just like they did in the APS peshawar attack. Guess what? It back fired. This was to answer against our COAS leading the bombardment against the TTP. It failed to demoralise us and thanks to everyone's vigilance failed.

I hope everyone gets it.

@EVERYONE if you guys need assurance that this is truly so please search Shuja Nawaz's Learn from doing. It'd clear up a lot of what I've said on this topic. <EDIT>

Wow, You are talking like when everyone supposed to be obliged to agree with you!

In my point of view, that was Intelligence/counter-Intelligence fault no matter (ABCDEFGHIJK which agencies) and security laps.

That's debatable the intensity of intelligence required in Afghanistan to thwart any potential mishap and how.

 

[haviZsultan]

If your hollow brain paid attention. Terrorists came from Afghanistan. Through tirah valley travelling through rough patches. Attacked a area which is adjacent to one tribal agency.

Peshawar is very close to Khyber but the main problem is not in Khyber which has the highest literacy rate in the tribal regions higher than Kohistan, it also has Jamrud the most developed town in FATA where there is even a top mens/womens college, though a public one. It was attacked and destroyed by the Taliban and LeI has hold of the western regions while Tirah is also a battleground for some TTP elements mostly in the west too. They are led by 2 figures who began fighting each other but I do not remember the name. It is included in my report of the Taliban leadership throughout FATA and KPK.

The main problem actually or the artery of the taliban is south waziristan and that also the Maseed regions. I have been told that around 60% of the TTP cadres are Maseed. So its become a tribal thing too. Wazirs and even Burkis have often been at loggerheads with the Mehsuds/Maseeds. Though of course all Mehsuds are not bad but it tells us why the army invokes the collective responsibilities act which I say should be repealed.

Anyway thats my assesment. Afghanistan and its support to TTP militats along with India also are part of the problem.

Wow, You are talking like when everyone supposed to be obliged to agree with you!

In my point of view, that was Intelligence/counter-Intelligence fault no matter (ABCDEFGHIJK which agencies) and security laps.

That's debatable the intensity of intelligence required in Afghanistan to thwart any potential mishap and how.

Welll thats looking at the situation critically. We clearly need to be pro active and stop terrorist attacks before they occur. This has been happening for a while though with many terrorists captured since the APS attack. But more needs to be done. We need to infiltrate them. I can go myself and try if security wants it. I want to do my part as a citizen. We need proper intelligence about them and need to break their back.

 

[Neutron]

We are not innovative enough as far as our strategy is concerned. We are fighting non conventional war primarily as per conventional tactics.

 

[DV RULES]

Icarus has already explained that but to mention once again NO you cannot, it is NOT a matter of courage but it is a matter of using brain and making tactical moves instead of any direct covert of overt operation against Afghanistan. Since US and Afghanistan have already been accusing Pakistan of the same but they could not launch any such operation on a mass scale against Pakistan? why ? because it unites the terrorists and bring even common man into the folds of terrorists

I am not suggesting taking axes and intrude Afghanistan in line...........that's in common sense that there always a plan to make any bold step when it is damn needed.

By launching military offenses against culprits will not change the ideological position of environment but yes an hit to brains in Kabul that next could be they are who are planning by sitting in NDS HQ.

Afghanistan has no ability and military power to challenge and US will not go for because after all that will be in their interests too.

Now we are talking about apprehension of some Hardcore Terrorists to bring into justice and there is no guaranty that it will make ideological rift within terrorists mind as for Pakistan/US collectively couldn't because of nature of war went out of ideological level into power & money doctrines of individual entity of every gun carry.

These morons are attacking Pakistan because they are thinking that we are bluffing and beside loud claims from Civilian and military leadership we couldn't make decisive step to handle situation. Once there will be military surgical/targeted operation inside Afghanistan all doubts will be turned into solid proof explaining Pakistan's commitment to protect its borders & people.
At least an example should be shown to masterminds in Kabul.

 

[Danish saleem]

We know who these people are. Let me be very blunt here. These Salafi b@stards have no faith. They are cold-blooded murderers. No more funding from oil rich Arabs for the Salafi brand of hate inside Pakistan. We know what the problem is and we need to address it from its root cause. Arab funding for Salafism has destroyed Pakistan. At the same time, kick every illegal and criminal Afghan out of Pakistan. Once you address both these issues we'll be chocking the oxygen for attacks inside our nation.

here u came, bro, try to spread love not hate!
in every sect we witness terrorist, and not only Arab, Iran also supporting mass murderers like bashir ul Asad!

 

[SecularNationalist]

PAF camp badaber is very important for me as i spent my infant years(1990-1992) over there.But according to my parents those were peaceful times.
Now it,s time to invade Afghanistan and kick all remaining afghans from pakistan.Afghanistan should be part of operation zarb e azb to eliminate all afghan terrorist scum.

 

[DV RULES]

Well thats looking at the situation critically. We clearly need to be pro active and stop terrorist attacks before they occur. This has been happening for a while though with many terrorists captured since the APS attack. But more needs to be done. We need to infiltrate them. I can go myself and try if security wants it. I want to do my part as a citizen. We need proper intelligence about them and need to break their back.

That is appreciable thinking indeed. That's the fact that despite sever security faults and intelligence loop holes it will be utter injustice to blame over overall capabilities and expertise of Pakistan Military. There is need of review of security and intelligence covers for all installations either they are operational of not or camps etc.

Either prime intelligence agencies will perform itself a true foreign intelligence network like Octopus in South Asia & in the world or there is urgent need of formation of Dedicated foreign intelligence network capable of having eyes and ears in the world to save Pakistan and its national interests and to save its people.

 

[Reverse Thinker]

very unfortunate incident 29 people have embraced shadat, why our border with afghanistan is not sealed how they enter to our country, what resources they used to breach each and every barrier and enter to the cities and even enter into militiry basess or near base areas with massive weapons? why we not make fool prof roads going to militry instalations & camp bases so that no way left for these dogs to easily go there? terrorest going to attack militry basess using indian satelite technologies & google maps why pakistan have no counter measure to these types of 4rth generation wars