Terrorist attack on Ahmadi mosques in Lahore

[T-Faz]

ktishna or budha have no mention in Holy Quran.........but according to zakir naik they might be prophets of God as there were 124 00000 prophet accordin to Holy Quran.

No not according to Holy Quran but Hadhrat Mohammed (PBUH), he said that there have been 124000 prophets in history, they all can be identified through their characteristics and the challenges faced which are all similar.

All of the prophets are persecuted first and only attract limited attention, those who follow him face hardships and struggle. They are driven from their lands and follow a pure way of life, the prophets leaves a mark that stays on and irks it opponents until it is able to end it's opponents and become the dominant religion within a specific region.

 

[Kompromat]

How do you verify if one is a true or false Prophet?

Islamic faith is the Final shape of Abrahmic faith which started from Adam and Finished at Muhammad (SAW).

We believe that the Prophethood has Ended as Islam revealed as the final message from Allah (Swt).

Here is a quote from Quran e majeed.

(٣٩&#65279 مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَآ أَحَدٍ۬ مِّن رِّجَالِكُمۡ وَلَـٰكِن رَّسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ ٱلنَّبِيِّـۧنَۗ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَىۡءٍ عَلِيمً۬ا
Chapter 33 verse 040.

Translation.

(39) Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

Urdu: (۳۹&#65279 محمدﷺ تمہارے مردوں میں سے کسی کے والد نہیں ہیں بلکہ خدا کے پیغمبر اور نبیوں (کی نبو&#1578 کی مہر (یعنی اس کو ختم کردینے وال&#1746 ہیں اور خدا ہر چیز سے واقف ہے

Note Prophethood is the 2nd most important pillar of an Islamic faith whoever disagrees with this or the Seal of prophethood is a considered a "Kafir" and this is the case with Ahmadis.

Seal of the Prophets (Arabic: خاتم اﻟﻨﺒﻴﻴﻦ‎ Khātim an-Nabiyīn) is a title given to Muhammad by a verse in the Qur'an. [Qur'an 33:40] However, there is a difference of interpretation within Muslims;

Muslims traditionally interpret this verse as meaning that Muhammad was the last prophet, whereas other small minority groups such as the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community hold an entirely distinct view.

Nonetheless, all Muslims agree upon that Muhammad received the final revelation in the form of the Qur'an for all mankind, for all time

False prophets In Islam
Main article: Prophets of Islam

According to most Muslim scholars Muhammad is the final Prophet, thus anyone who has emerged or will emerge to be a new prophet after Muhammad is considered a false prophet. Muslims consider Musaylimah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Rashad Khalifa, and Baha'ullah to be false prophets.

The Quran states that Muhammad is the "seal of the Prophets", the closure in a successive chain of prophets including Adam, Moses and Jesus.

Muhammad himself foretold of a number of false prophets who would come after him, stating, "In my Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals), each of whom will claim to be a prophet, But I am the Last Prophet; there is no Prophet after Me."
Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45

From Ahmadi website:


Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is the leading Islamic organization to categorically reject terrorism in any form. Over a century ago, Ahmad(as) emphatically declared that an aggressive “jihad by the sword” has no place in Islam. In its place, he taught his followers to wage a bloodless, intellectual “jihad of the pen” to defend Islam. To this end, Ahmad(as) penned over 80 books and tens of thousands of letters, delivered hundreds of lectures, and engaged in scores of public debates.

His rigorous and rational defenses of Islam unsettled conventional Muslim thinking. As part of its effort to revive Islam, Ahmadiyya Muslim Community continues to spread Ahmad’s(as) teachings of moderation and restraint in the face of bitter opposition from parts of the Muslim world.

Islamic view:

Warfare (Jihad bil Saif)


The primary aim of jihad as warfare is not the conversion of non-Muslims to Islam by force, but rather the expansion and defense of the Islamic state.

In the classical manuals of Islamic jurisprudence, the rules associated with armed warfare are covered at great length. Such rules include not killing women, children and non-combatants, as well as not damaging cultivated or residential areas.

More recently, modern Muslims have tried to re-interpret the Islamic sources, stressing that Jihad is essentially defensive warfare aimed at protecting Muslims and Islam.

Although some Islamic scholars have differed on the implementation of Jihad, there is consensus amongst them that the concept of jihad will always include armed struggle against persecution and oppression.

^ This is the difference.



This entirely distant view is that they have their own "False Prophet" which clearly defies the Word of God and Hadith and this is why they were Declared Kafirs in Pakistan's constitution , it didn't came cheap neither it was based on religious prejudice or hatred as few members try to prove that it was.

There were a series of discussions which lasted decades and it was proved that ahmadis were no Longer Muslims as they dont believe in the Lastness of the Prophet Muhammad SAW not only that they claim Mirza to be the Massih (2nd coming of Jesus ) and Mahdi altogether where as Islam clearly tells that they would be two different people

They agree with it or not its their choice , the word of God is there and so is their belief , its upto them to keep following their cult or do otherwise.

Read about Ahmadi belief from their own website . (I dont know about your faith but it was quite hilarious for me http://www.alislam.org/introduction/index.html

I hope now you know what is the Issue.

 

[Kompromat]

 

[Kompromat]

 

[MilesTogo]

What if God changes his mind and sends another Prophet?

Islamic faith is the Final shape of Abrahmic faith which started from Adam and Finished at Muhammad (SAW).

We believe that the Prophethood has Ended as Islam revealed as the final message from Allah (Swt).

Here is a quote from Quran e majeed.




Note Prophethood is the 2nd most important pillar of an Islamic faith whoever disagrees with this or the Seal of prophethood is a considered a "Kafir" and this is the case with Ahmadis.









^ This is the difference.



This entirely distant view is that they have their own "False Prophet" which clearly defies the Word of God and Hadith and this is why they were Declared Kafirs in Pakistan's constitution , it didn't came cheap neither it was based on religious prejudice or hatred as few members try to prove that it was.

There were a series of discussions which lasted decades and it was proved that ahmadis were no Longer Muslims as they dont believe in the Lastness of the Prophet Muhammad SAW not only that they claim Mirza to be the Massih (2nd coming of Jesus ) and Mahdi altogether where as Islam clearly tells that they would be two different people

They agree with it or not its their choice , the word of God is there and so is their belief , its upto them to keep following their cult or do otherwise.

Read about Ahmadi belief from their own website . (I dont know about your faith but it was quite hilarious for me An Overview

I hope now you know what is the Issue.

 

[Hyde]

What if God changes his mind and sends another Prophet?

Stupid question,

God does not need to change his mind. He is not a human. God does not make mistakes. He knows what he is doing thus does not need to change his mind

 

[EjazR]

Just read the bolded parts and that should tell you all.

Chowk: Current Affairs: Restoring the Civil Rights of Ahmadis

Well this article is quite accurate in a way.

The Ahmediya movement was at the forefront of the Pakistan movement. After Gurdaspur district went to India. They moved their headquarters to Pindi. Which was later moved on to UK after the Anti-Qadiyani law being passed in Pakistan. The movement promoted loyalty to the British, like other pro-British movements and initially opposed independence and later advocated for the creation of Pakistan.


But I think many people are unsure of Ahmediya beliefs as well. Some of them do not oppose the finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad SAW. They claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is the awaited mehdi and that he only follows the same rules and laws as ascertained by Prophet Muhammed. IF I'm not mistaken they claim that he is the mehdi and Prophet Esa both and then provide various "proofs" regarding this.

It should also be noted that the Ahmediya movement itself consists of two sects, the Lahori Ahmeddiya community that does believe in the finality as stated above, they are the majority sect.

The other sect - The vanilla Ahmediya movement, basically goes about establishing a religious authority in Islam - the descendants of the Mirza Ghulam Ahmed who are now entitled to moral authority over their followers. The preach the revival of Islam all over the world under their guidance and establishment of a moral caliphate of Islam. They also consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as a prophet albeit one who did not come with any new laws and follows those as brought down by Prophet Muhammed.

----------------------------

But regardless of the doctrinal differences, in no way can the killing of these people be justified on this basis. Its Unacceptable and UnIslamic. Highlighting doctrinal differences between mainstream Muslims and Ahmeddiyas is not intolerance, its an intellectual/theological debate. However, advocating their killing e.t.c. is just plain wrong.

 

[Hyde]

Well this article is quite accurate in a way.

The Ahmediya movement was at the forefront of the Pakistan movement. After Gurdaspur district went to India. They moved their headquarters to Pindi. Which was later moved on to UK after the Anti-Qadiyani law being passed in Pakistan. The movement promoted loyalty to the British, like other pro-British movements and initially opposed independence and later advocated for the creation of Pakistan.


But I think many people are unsure of Ahmediya beliefs as well. They do not oppose the finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad SAW. They only claim that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is the awaited mehdi and that he only follows the same rules and laws as ascertained by Prophet Muhammed.

in another words you do not know about Ahmedis

Ahmedis has recently been divided into two groups. Couple of decades ago all Ahmedis were in concensus that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is the Prophet and that the prophethood has not been stopped. I can show you the proof by sharing a video of "Mirza Tahir Ahmed" (the former Khalifa of Ahmedis who died in 2003) misinterperating the verse 40 of Surah Ahzab. According to him Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was a Prophet and so is believed among the Qadianis.

Now a new group among Ahmedis has born known as "Lahoris" cause the majority of them are living in Lahore they believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was not a prophet but merely a Saint or Wali. According to them he never claimed Prophethood neither ever came any angel to him. He was a Wali like many other Muslims believe in other Sufi Saints i.e. Ali Hajveri R.A., Abdul Qadir Jilani R.A. and was the awaited Masih as mentioned in the Ahadeeth of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

This group differs with the majority of Qadianis including their Khalifatul Masih and i believe you are talking about that particular group only.

In the eyes of Muslims - both groups are Kafir

 

[Hyde]

Glad to see you edited your post Ejaz

otherwise your previous post did not make any sense at all

and most of us are aware of Ahmedi's doctrine. I am still unable to get why peoples are arguing about Ahmedi's belief in this thread it was meant to be a condolences kind of thread - that has been diverted to another Islam vs Ahmedis war thread

 

[Meesna]

These are the same molvis who spread hatred in the first place with support from government but shed alligator's tears when an incident like this occurs.




Link to article: Culpable role of PML-N in Lahore’s Ahmadi massacre – by Farhad Jarral | Let Us Build Pakistan

 

[Hyde]

nothing new meesna - A typical Pakistani Muslim can live with Christians, Hindus, Sikhs or Jews for 100 years under the same shelter. But he cannot live with Qadianis even for 1 day

Thats what Pakistan is

 

[Meesna]

nothing new meesna - A typical Pakistani Muslim can live with Christians, Hindus, Sikhs or Jews for 100 years under the same shelter. But he cannot live with Qadianis even for 1 day

Thats what Pakistan is

You mean you never heard of all the killings and persecution of Shias, Christians, Hindus all this time? Which planet do you live on? Gojra massacre of Christians is only one recent incident, there are numerous. Here is summary of just last year alone;

Pakistan

Don't make me post any more links, I'm so bored with doing that all the time. More Muslims get killed at the hands of Muslims in Pakistan than anywhere else.

 

[sab]

Stupid question,

God does not need to change his mind. He is not a human. God does not make mistakes. He knows what he is doing thus does not need to change his mind

Zaki....Milestogo has said it in a lighter sense. But the way followers of different prophets are makeing mess on earth...he really can think of sending another prophet.

 

[Hyde]

You mean you never heard of all the killings and persecution of Shias, Christians, Hindus all this time? Which planet do you live on? Gojra massacre of Christians is only one recent incident, there are numerous. Here is summary of just last year alone;

Pakistan

Don't make me post any more links, I'm so bored with doing that all the time. More Muslims get killed at the hands of Muslims in Pakistan than anywhere else.

who said these attacks did not take place on peoples of other faith?

you completely misunderstood my post

 

[Meesna]

nothing new meesna - A typical Pakistani Muslim can live with Christians, Hindus, Sikhs or Jews for 100 years under the same shelter. But he cannot live with Qadianis even for 1 day

Thats what Pakistan is

Sipha-e-Sahab who are cahoots with Nawaz League Punjab government have this to say;

In an interview with the AP, the director-general of Sipah-e-Sahaba, Hamid Hussain Dehlo, denied working with other militant organizations, insisting his group's only agenda "is to fight against Shiite Muslims who are the worst kafirs in the whole universe," referring to Shiites by the Arab word for "nonbeliever."

The Associated Press: Local Pakistan politicians shelter militants

It's the deobandi militants who are killing everyone from Brelvis, Shias, Ahmadis to Christians under various organisational banners. They seem to want to turn Pakistan into a a deobandi state by scaring everyone into submission.