Terrorist attack on Ahmadi mosques in Lahore

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Amazing, how one can stoop !

by same principles which are trying to use in your arguments,
ask the people of Pakistan, if they are going to accept QADYANI as muslims.

Let the will of people rule shall we ?

AGNOSTIC:
what you are referring to (Slavery, segregation, apartheid) are social phenomenon,
they do not have theological grounds.

Its a simple matter of principle, those who accept the prophet and the end of all prophet hood and those who don't.

No one is asking or forcing mainstream Muslims to accept Ahmedis as 'Muslim' - what is being argued is that 'mainstream Muslim sects' can believe what they want about Ahmedis, on a personal level, but the State should not discriminate against them and violate their basic freedoms and rights, such as being able to call themselves whatever they want and call their places of worship whatever they want.

The State should ensure that Ahmadis have every protection and right to practice and spread their faith as they wish, just like any other Muslim or non-Muslim group in Pakistan.

We are arguing for an end to discrimination against, and an end to the violation of basic rights of the Ahmedis by the State . 'No compulsion in religion' is a very important part of Islam, yet in the case of Ahmedis the State of Pakistan is doing exactly that - the State is preventing the Ahmedis from practicing their faith as they wish, and the State IS COMPELLING/FORCING Ahmedis to follow OUR guidelines on how to practice their religion.

These laws against Ahmedis are indefensible from a moral and Islamic standpoint.

 

[T-Faz]

under cover :
ahan,
so after the killing of thousands of muslims on theological hate you are here to teach philosophy ?

and as for T-Faz

"If the will of the people ruled, the tyrant in your profile picture would not be the leader of our nation. If the will of the people ruled, we would not have so many of them struggling to feed their families, educate their children or find a shelter to sleep in."

aren't you being the judge jury and executioner your self ?
what is the difference between me and you ?

Go back to my first post its in a parallel thread,


I have never appreciated what happened.
I am only debating the response to the incident, and
secondly i am debating the hypocrisy people profess.

Keep thinking gentlemen.

There is a time and place for everything, you would not turn up at a funeral and start discussing a potentially offensive and unwanted topic or would you.

I am stating my opinion in response to your offensive post, if you do not have something good to say, do not say anything at all.

Secondly if you do not like the 'hypocrisy' here, you can just ignore and move to a place to your liking.

But please do not start debating something when many innocent people have died through the hands of people who have end up as judge, jury and executioner on matters that should not concern them in the first place.

How would you feel if tomorrow someone disagrees with your point of view because that person found it offensive and decides to take your life.

Narrow mindedness and weak mentality is a curse, do not heed with those in your life. Rationality is the need of the hour, I suggest you rethink your stance based on stances that are universally accepted.

 

[Hulk]

RIP for the dead.
As an outsider I feel we are mixing the discussion about Ahmedis.
Salman108 has objection to them being called Muslims but he does not support the act against them. I feel we should create a separate thread on that discussion so that we do not mix the two.

 

[Ahmad]

i'll be surprised if we not do this..
we should do this, where is our gherat, emaan?
Why should we allow every one to insult Islam
its not us who has to restrain from retaliating,

its the indian prime minister who has to think gazillion times b4 doing it...

Really off topic i just wanted to clear sm thing.

We muslims are nothing but a group of emotional hypocriticals, thanks to the internet inventor that I/We can speak our minds freely, i would have never said these things in afghanistan what i say in here(i would have bloody stoned to death, take my words for it). Where have we had respect to the other religions? didnt we demolish the Budha statue in Afghanistan while it had a religious significance to the budists? havent we punished and humiliated the christians in paksitan? havent we punished and killed(their worship places have also been destroyed and humiliated) a very very small group of hindus in afghanistan? and havent we done the same things in other muslim countries against the other groups? and now we are talking about Gherat and eman, as if the other people dont have gherat and iman.

 

[Sinnerman108]

So you support these killings?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Over 100 people died in this terrorist attack and you're whining about how they "are not Muslims."

Doesn't matter what religion they are. The problem is that they are now dead due to the fact that your ideology still exists.

THEY ARE PAKISTANI.

Are you really freaking silly ?

or do you presume stuff just like the others.

Where in my posts have I said that I encourage the killings ?

I answered a simple question, if by law Ahmedi is muslim or not.

Every one of you, has presumed one thing, and coloured my post as some anti human thing.

Tell me, how different are you from the taliban them selves ?

and if you can not answer me based on rational, please don't base your replies on self lamenting assumptions.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I meant officially, pass a law, saying that these groups and these certain members are non muslims and in alliance with Mossad and Raw.

The work will be done.

The State, or any mortal entity, has no business passing judgment on someones faith. Faith is a personal matter between ones creator and the individual. Such a move by the State would only set a precedent for declaring some other group that falls out of favor, justified or not, as 'non Muslim'. The State needs to get out of the business of 'legislating faith'.

The State only needs to ensure that the basic rights and freedoms of its citizens are protected, and those who violate them or attempt to violate them are stopped and punished.

The Taliban and associated groups have violated almost every basic right and freedom of the citizens of Pakistan that I can think of - they have massacred people, they have kidnapped people, they have taken their children (to train as suicide bombers and fighters) they have extorted money and taken property and valuables, and they have destroyed public property such as schools, clinics, shops etc.

By any yardstick these people are criminals and thugs of the worst kind, and there is nothing else necessary to justify action by the State against these barbarians, and there should be nothing else necessary to justify the full support of those in Pakistan who stand for justice, freedom and equality for all human beings, for GoP action against these barbarians.

 

[Imran Khan]

We muslims are nothing but a group of emotional hypocriticals, thanks to the internet inventor that I/We can speak our minds freely, i would have never said these things in afghanistan what i say in here(i would have bloody stoned to death, take my words for it). Where have we had respect to the other religions? didnt we demolish the Budha statue in Afghanistan while it had a religious significance to the budists? havent we punished and humiliated the christians in paksitan? havent we punished and killed(their worship places have also been destroyed and humiliated) a very very small group of hindus in afghanistan? and havent we done the same things in other muslim countries against the other groups? and now we are talking about Gherat and eman, as if the other people dont have gherat and iman.

great man its truth of today abut muslim world.

but khan jee araam se

 

[T-Faz]

Are you really freaking silly ?

or do you presume stuff just like the others.

Where in my posts have I said that I encourage the killings ?

I answered a simple question, if by law Ahmedi is muslim or not.

Every one of you, has presumed one thing, and coloured my post as some anti human thing.

Tell me, how different are you from the taliban them selves ?

and if you can not answer me based on rational, please don't base your replies on self lamenting assumptions.

We are very different from the Taliban, we have never killed anyone just because we disagreed with them.

 

[waraich66]

No one is asking or forcing mainstream Muslims to accept Ahmedis as 'Muslim' - what is being argued is that 'mainstream Muslim sects' can believe what they want about Ahmedis, on a personal level, but the State should not discriminate against them and violate their basic freedoms and rights, such as being able to call themselves whatever they want and call their places of worship whatever they want.

The State should ensure that Ahmadis have every protection and right to practice and spread their faith as they wish, just like any other Muslim or non-Muslim group in Pakistan.

We are arguing for an end to discrimination against, and an end to the violation of basic rights of the Ahmedis by the State . 'No compulsion in religion' is a very important part of Islam, yet in the case of Ahmedis the State of Pakistan is doing exactly that - the State is preventing the Ahmedis from practicing their faith as they wish, and the State IS COMPELLING/FORCING Ahmedis to follow OUR guidelines on how to practice their religion.

These laws against Ahmedis are indefensible from a moral and Islamic standpoint.

Ahmadis faith is contradictory with Qalma that is reason they were declared non muslim.

If they continue preaching their faith it means they are hurting 1.5 Billion muslims feelings , it is responsibility of all muslims to protect right faith.

In islamic state that is reason murtad( person converted from Islam to any other faith or religion) can not live and practice his faith , he has to leave the state or face panelty as per shariah law.

 

[Sinnerman108]

How would you feel if tomorrow someone disagrees with your point of view because that person found it offensive and decides to take your life.

I think you just did exactly that.

You fast read my post,
assumed some thing out of emotion,
became the judge jury and executioner.

And you again, carry on, advising me to leave to a place of my liking !

THINK about it !

I am stating my opinion just like you are, if you want to debate, please do that,
but base it on facts and rational, not emotions.

This btw, is not a funeral, I hope every one here to be at least above 18.
The best of men, do not relent rational even at the worst of time.

that, is the difference !

 

[Sinnerman108]

Here watch this.

Ahmadis faith is contradictory with Qalma that is reason they were declared non muslim.

My kind sir,
which Qalma are u talking about ?

if you are talking about the one, which Muslims chant as the fist Qalma,

then you MUST be able to bring me at least 1 historical proof of it ?

is it written in the Quran ? Sunnah ? Hadith ?

any where at all ?

Now back to study table like the rest of the gang.

 

[T-Faz]

The rational was thrown out of the window the day our government decided to pass judgement on one groups faith, it should neither be of any concern to them, nor a matter that they should intervene in.

The rational was inadvertently dislodged when the state was pandering to a bunch of extremists.

Your personal opinion should not be a matter that the state has to address.

 

[waraich66]

Here watch this.



My kind sir,
which Qalma are u talking about ?

if you are talking about the one, which Muslims chant as the fist Qalma,

then you MUST be able to bring me at least 1 historical proof of it ?

is it written in the Quran ? Sunnah ? Hadith ?

any where at all ?

Now back to study table like the rest of the gang.

All Muslims have faith on one Qalma meaning there is only one God( Allah) and Muhammad PBUH was His last massenger .

 

[Sinnerman108]

The rational was thrown out of the window the day our government decided to pass judgement on one groups faith, it should neither be of any concern to them, nor a matter that they should intervene in.

The rational was inadvertently dislodged when the state was pandering to a bunch of extremists.

Your personal opinion should not be a matter that the state has to address.

Tch tch tch
Still emotional !
Please read some history before you comment on any thing.

Ahmedi were the first to go to British court to declare the rest as non muslims !

I would suggest, that you don't even try to open the theological aspect of that debate.

but for your own personal reference, Please do read up on who Mufti Mahmood was, and exactly how and what led to the passing of the law.

 

[Abu Basit]

why do you people even give a damn about what they believe in? its non of your business, let them believe in what ever they want to believe in, there must be no discriminatory laws, State is no one to define Muslims & non muslims

State has full authority over this. Why don't the liberal/secular section join hand with Qadiyani kaafirs and launch a movement, just get it removed from the constitution.......