Terrorist and killer Narendra Modi on TIME 2012 list is a shame

[Bhairava]

Your response might be due to ignorance of the historical facts, quite possibly, or they might be due to wilful distortion.

Wherever the procedures have been followed, there have been no communal riots. The communal riots that you are pointing at are precisely those where the procedure was flouted and weaker police officers as well as less impartial political masters were involved.

And what procedures they might be ? Care to enlighten us about that ?

West Bengal had, for instance, no communal riots between 1968 and 2012. This was not coincidence.

Deganga riots of 2010..Ring any bells ?

Just because the mainstream media did not report it, doesn't mean they did not happen. Or maybe they don't qualify as "communal riots" as most of the affected were Hindus. Take your pick.

No.

I have made up my mind that the overwhelming body of evidence shows that there is a prima facie case against Modi. I have made up my mind that the circumstances in which this body of evidence has been prevented, again and again, from resulting in legal action points to an extensive and wholesale misuse of official authority by Modi to evade the consequences of his actions. I believe that he should be charged and put on trial, and that only the results of that trial will release him from the suspicion of culpability in various crimes.

And whatever prevents the "whomsoever it may concern" to initiate actions against Modi with such "overwhelming" evidence suggesting his involvement ?

Actually you have hit the nail on the head now - It's your belief. Yours alone. Unfortunately for you, whatever you believe, doesn't constitute legally admissable evidence and as such the maxim of "innocent until proven guilty" hold true - even for Narendra Modi.

He doesn't become guilty just because some kangaroo courts made up of individuals claim so. The law of the land takes precedence over these citizen cabals who have no better work than judging others through their narrow prejudiced lens.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The SIT in its final report has justified the "moving" of the bodies to Ahmedabad on the grounds :

• Tension was building up in Godhra and any further delay in removing the bodies would have proved catastrophic to the Muslims of Godhra
• There was no cold storage and DNA testing facilities in Godhra and they were available in Ahmedabad only
• Most of the killed Karsevaks hailed from around Ahmedabad and it made sense to move the bodies to Ahd so that they could be identified by the relatives.

So a perfectly law abiding citizen like you should have no grounds to question the SIT report which was appointed by the highest legal authority of the land: the Supreme Court.

What is clear from the sequence reported by Narayanan is that Modi wanted a symbol to play with, otherwise the question of removing the bogey to Ahmedabad would not have arisen. It was only AFTER it was resisted by Jayanthi Ravi that he cast around for an alternative and sent the bodies off - with a VHP official, of all people, choosing a person from the most inflammable of the Sangh Parivar front bodies at a time of tension.

What was also clear was that the hospital chosen and its location offered every opportunity to go through the city and excite emotion. It was done immediately after Modi's visit to Godhra in the late evening, and as a result, the lorries passed through the town in the early hours of the morning. Selecting the early morning was as effective a gesture as anything else, since it was easy to mark the progress of the convoy, and there was no question of it being masked or obscured by traffic.

While all the reasons cited by you are plausible, they are plausible only in a vacuum; they do not tally with Modi's own actions; there was no question of the burnt bogey proving catastrophic to the Muslims of Godhra any more than they were in catastrophic condition anyway; there was no need for DNA testing of the bogey, and it had no relatives in Ahmedabad. To select the bodies and hand them over to a politically notable functionary, right on the heels of being denied his first symbolic act of manipulation, tells the tale clearly, and helps to see those other reasons for what they are: post-facto justification.

Supreme court made SIT because they dont believe in CBI for gujrat case... SIT already gives clean chit to Modi

2G scam is biggest proof and any can understand that CBI is now a lapdogs of congress and they are using it as tool

In that case, since, according to you, the SIT was formed because the Supreme Court couldn't rely on the CBI, it has no role to play in the Gujarat case. Which is what I said. And the possibility of the Congress using it as a tool in the 2G case has no bearing on the Gujarat case; not a single piece of evidence, for or against, has been produced by the CBI. So what is the problem?

 

[Joe Shearer]

First of all I oppose your wording "paraded" as if they were material objects. Secondly they were taken in procession by the relatives of the fallen who were appalled at Modi's suggestion that the bodies be buried nearby the Sola civil hospital. You seem to ignoring that fact continuously.

If the Brigade of Guards can be paraded, your objection to using that word with respect to the corpses sounds absurd. But that protest was a distraction, was it not. Regarding the actual parading, whether it was the relatives, pro forma, or the VHP, acting on their vulnerability and acting on their behalf, it does not matter. It is difficult to believe that with VHP volunteers present and waiting, the shocked relatives would not have been guided by them.

Whether or not it was 3:30 in the morning was not relevant provided that a crowd gathered. The relatives and their fellow mourners themselves formed a significant number, and it is easy to understand that such a bustle in the early hours of the morning, with a little help from the VHP members present, would attract attention.

 

[Bhairava]

Let's go para by para :

What is clear from the sequence reported by Narayanan is that Modi wanted a symbol to play with,otherwise the question of removing the bogey to Ahmedabad would not have arisen.

That is your personal opinion, and remains as such unless you are a mindreader who is capable of reading into people's minds.

It was only AFTER it was resisted by Jayanthi Ravi that he cast around for an alternative and sent the bodies off - with a VHP official, of all people, choosing a person from the most inflammable of the Sangh Parivar front bodies at a time of tension.

On the contrary it has been clearly proved from the SIT report that the reasons why the bodies were sent to Ahmedabad were as provided in the post 862.

What was also clear was that the hospital chosen and its location offered every opportunity to go through the city and excite emotion. It was done immediately after Modi's visit to Godhra in the late evening, and as a result, the lorries passed through the town in the early hours of the morning. Selecting the early morning was as effective a gesture as anything else, since it was easy to mark the progress of the convoy, and there was no question of it being masked or obscured by traffic.

Wow your logic stupefies me for its sheer zaid hamid ness (for lack of another word).

As far as bolded part is concerned - when I pointed out that,logically, if a person would have wanted to arouse passion, he would have done it in the light of the day when the city is awake so that it would get maximum coverage and the bodies would have been taken to the main civil hospital in the Eastern part from where the Kar Sevaks hailed from and from where it would have been easy for them to drum up support, you come up with completely weird theories about traffic and what not.

Moreover the choice of the hospital was careful taking into consideration that Sola hospital was situated on the outskirts of the city away from populated areas (in contrast to the main civil hospital which was in middle of populated areas) so that even if things get out of hand there would be no damage to lives.

While all the reasons cited by you are plausible, they are plausible only in a vacuum; they do not tally with Modi's own actions;

Rather they are perfectly in sync with his actions.

there was no question of the burnt bogey proving catastrophic to the Muslims of Godhra any more than they were in catastrophic condition anyway; there was no need for DNA testing of the bogey, and it had no relatives in Ahmedabad. To select the bodies and hand them over to a politically notable functionary, right on the heels of being denied his first symbolic act of manipulation, tells the tale clearly, and helps to see those other reasons for what they are: post-facto justification.

Haven't you heard about the police procedure where they move the vehicles involved in accidents to police impound in order make sure evidence is not destroyed ? The order to move the bogey could have been one such. As they say, in this case, your guess is as good as mine.

I hate to repeat this again and again - unless and until all your allegations are proved in a court of law beyond doubt, they just remain allegations and actually I find your theories, as not even logical allegations but rather conspiracy theories weirdly reminiscent of the 9/11 conspiracy theories floating around the net.

 

[Bhairava]

Regarding the actual parading, whether it was the relatives, pro forma, or the VHP, acting on their vulnerability and acting on their behalf, it does not matter. It is difficult to believe that with VHP volunteers present and waiting, the shocked relatives would not have been guided by them.

I can't comment on your beliefs. As a citizen of the democratic republic of India, you are free to have one. Let's argue facts.

Whether or not it was 3:30 in the morning was not relevant provided that a crowd gathered. The relatives and their fellow mourners themselves formed a significant number, and it is easy to understand that such a bustle in the early hours of the morning, with a little help from the VHP members present, would attract attention.

Ofcourse the relatives would come to receive the bodies. What madness is that, you are insinuating that they should not come to receive the bodies ? They would have come irrespective of the time/season.

But the time (3:30 AM) assumes significance in the fact that, if one is to go by your belief that Modi wanted to flaunt the dead bodies in public in order to arouse emotion, 3:30 AM when the human body is in its deepest state of sleep would be the most illogical move.

Transportation at, say, 9:00 in the morning or about 4:00 in the evening would have been the ideal choice.

 

[Bhairava]

Summing up, the allegations against Modi basically come from these personalities :

Haren Pandya : Alleged to have testified against Modi in front of a citizen's tribunal and forms the backbone of the allegations made by the tribunal against Modi. The contradictory point - Haren Pandya himself has denied visiting any tribunal.

Sanjeev Bhatt : the controversial IPS officer who has had a cosmic change suddenly after 9 years of silence and who has been exposed to be in cahoots with the Congress to malign Modi and try to destabilise the Govt (link). The fact that even the Supreme Court has refused to take cognizance of his affidavit shows only his "credibility". Not to mention this officer has had a terrible record in the police and has been suspended on occasions for dereliction of duty.

Mr.Sreekumar, former IPS officer : Another officer who filed an affidavit before Nanavati Commission alleging that Modi had instructed the police officers to go slow on the Hindu rioters in order to let them vent their anger. Now the important point to note here is he again was no present in that Feb 27 late night meeting and bases his allegations on the words of DGP Chakraborty, who curiously has denied those allegations outright in his own affidavit before the panel. It is also a point of interest to note that these allegations of Mr.Sreekumar only surfaced in the third affidavit he filed before the panel (after he was denied a promotion) and not in the first two affidavits filed by himself.

As it can be seen, the latter two, the knights in shining armor, who have come out against Modi basically have their own agenda and there is hardly any credibility in their claims. As for the testimony of Haren Pandya, it hits against the wall when Haren Pandya himself has denied giving it.

 

[Bhairava]

Steps taken by the Modi Govt int he aftermath of the carnage :

On Feb 27th:

(link,link, link,link)

• Godhra Carnage takes place at approx 8 in the morning.
• Modi visits Godhra and immediately orders curfewn and shoot at sight in Godhra in order to pre-empt any riots.
• Entire police strength of 70,000 deployed in communally sensitive locations all over Gujarat
• The communally sensitive areas of Godhra, Ahmedabad also saw the deployment of the RAF battalions.
• Center rushes in CRPF personnel to Gujarat
• Approximately 827 preventive arrests were made in Ahmedabad alone.
• Central Govt sounded a nation wide alert regarding possible disturbances
• State Govt appeals for peace among the people and the HM assured necessary steps were ebing taken to maintain calm.

 

[Bhairava]

Before going into the happenings of Feb 28, it is vital to know about the number and readiness of the Gujarat police force and whether they were any good in tackling the groundswell.

This is from the cover story of India today dated 18 th March 2002.

That the police was ineffective is clear. But was this intentional? Ahmedabad has a police force of 6,000, including 1,500 armed personnel. In addition, the entire state has just four companies (530 jawans) of the Rapid Action Force (RAF) of which only one company could be spared for Ahmedabad. Considering that the mobs that simultaneously surfaced at nearly half a dozen places numbered from 2,000 to 10,000, the forces proved woefully inadequate. At one point on February 28 there were at least 25,000 people targeting the Muslim localities in Ahmedabad alone.

What's more, the police was expecting trouble in Ahmedabad's walled city, which has been the scene of communal violence in every riot in the past two decades. This time, however, it wasn't the walled city where the troubles began. At Naroda Patia, the scene of the worst carnage, there was no police presence worth the name to prevent the mobs from grouping in the morning and going on a rampage

http://archives.digitaltoday.in/indiatoday/20020318/cover.html

So now it should be clear that the Gujarat police were in no way trained or equipped to handle the massive groundswell and it did not matter who was at the helm - Modi or Michael Jackson - the riots could not have been controlled for the simple reason the police were outnumbered and outgunned.

 

[Bhairava]

Feb 28 :

• The first sign of riots in Ahmedabad at about 11 in the morning .
• The Chief Minister Narendra Modi informally contacted the Central Government to send Army at 12 noon – i.e. within 1 hour. Curfew was imposed by 12:20 at noon. link
• Curfew was imposed in 26 towns and cities in Gujarat. link
• Police save around 200 Muslims in the housing complex of Ehsan Jafri despite being overwhelmingly outnumbered by the mob. Police also shot dead 5 Hindus outside his house.
• The police fired 1,000 rounds in the state- including 600 in Ahmedabad.
• At 4 PM press conference decision the decision to request the Central Government to send Army was publicly announced. All procedures were done quickly and Army units reached Ahmedabad after midnight.
• Police escorted 400 Muslims to safety in Naroda Patiya after dispersing the mob in Naroda Patiya. link
• The Gujarat Government requests neighbouring states to send additional police force.
• 700 people were arrested by the police in the state, including around 80 in Godhra on the very first day of the violence when situation was out of control. Tear gas shells were also burst.
• The police shot dead 10 Hindus in Ahmedabad and injured 16. At least 2 were shot dead outside Ahmedabad in Nadiad and Godhra.

These are just some of the points to illustrate that the police was neither willfully inactive nor were leading the "Hindu charge" as is portrayed.

The truth - they were woefully short on numbers and not even a quarter of them were equipped with weapons to deal with the overwhelming number of the mobs all over the city. So the resulting loss of life was not because the police failed in their duty, but because they were not equipped to properly discharge their duty and were not in enough numbers to enforce the curfew.

The words of the police commissioner P.C.Pande captures the whole situation - "In my 32-year career I have never seen something like this. It was an upsurge, unstoppable and unprecedented. A stage came when it became physically impossible for the police to tackle mobs running into thousands".

 

[Joe Shearer]

Just to mention that I have been away from my desk due to site visits , and shall address these defences of the indefensible tomorrow evening.

Feb 28 :

• The first sign of riots in Ahmedabad at about 11 in the morning .
• The Chief Minister Narendra Modi informally contacted the Central Government to send Army at 12 noon – i.e. within 1 hour. Curfew was imposed by 12:20 at noon. link
• Curfew was imposed in 26 towns and cities in Gujarat. link
• Police save around 200 Muslims in the housing complex of Ehsan Jafri despite being overwhelmingly outnumbered by the mob. Police also shot dead 5 Hindus outside his house.
• The police fired 1,000 rounds in the state- including 600 in Ahmedabad.
• At 4 PM press conference decision the decision to request the Central Government to send Army was publicly announced. All procedures were done quickly and Army units reached Ahmedabad after midnight.
• Police escorted 400 Muslims to safety in Naroda Patiya after dispersing the mob in Naroda Patiya. link
• The Gujarat Government requests neighbouring states to send additional police force.
• 700 people were arrested by the police in the state, including around 80 in Godhra on the very first day of the violence when situation was out of control. Tear gas shells were also burst.
• The police shot dead 10 Hindus in Ahmedabad and injured 16. At least 2 were shot dead outside Ahmedabad in Nadiad and Godhra.

These are just some of the points to illustrate that the police was neither willfully inactive nor were leading the "Hindu charge" as is portrayed.

The truth - they were woefully short on numbers and not even a quarter of them were equipped with weapons to deal with the overwhelming number of the mobs all over the city. So the resulting loss of life was not because the police failed in their duty, but because they were not equipped to properly discharge their duty and were not in enough numbers to enforce the curfew.

The words of the police commissioner P.C.Pande captures the whole situation - "In my 32-year career I have never seen something like this. It was an upsurge, unstoppable and unprecedented. A stage came when it became physically impossible for the police to tackle mobs running into thousands".

Feb 28 :

• The first sign of riots in Ahmedabad at about 11 in the morning .
• The Chief Minister Narendra Modi informally contacted the Central Government to send Army at 12 noon – i.e. within 1 hour. Curfew was imposed by 12:20 at noon. link
• Curfew was imposed in 26 towns and cities in Gujarat. link
• Police save around 200 Muslims in the housing complex of Ehsan Jafri despite being overwhelmingly outnumbered by the mob. Police also shot dead 5 Hindus outside his house.
• The police fired 1,000 rounds in the state- including 600 in Ahmedabad.
• At 4 PM press conference decision the decision to request the Central Government to send Army was publicly announced. All procedures were done quickly and Army units reached Ahmedabad after midnight.
• Police escorted 400 Muslims to safety in Naroda Patiya after dispersing the mob in Naroda Patiya. link
• The Gujarat Government requests neighbouring states to send additional police force.
• 700 people were arrested by the police in the state, including around 80 in Godhra on the very first day of the violence when situation was out of control. Tear gas shells were also burst.
• The police shot dead 10 Hindus in Ahmedabad and injured 16. At least 2 were shot dead outside Ahmedabad in Nadiad and Godhra.

These are just some of the points to illustrate that the police was neither willfully inactive nor were leading the "Hindu charge" as is portrayed.

The truth - they were woefully short on numbers and not even a quarter of them were equipped with weapons to deal with the overwhelming number of the mobs all over the city. So the resulting loss of life was not because the police failed in their duty, but because they were not equipped to properly discharge their duty and were not in enough numbers to enforce the curfew.

The words of the police commissioner P.C.Pande captures the whole situation - "In my 32-year career I have never seen something like this. It was an upsurge, unstoppable and unprecedented. A stage came when it became physically impossible for the police to tackle mobs running into thousands".

 

[The Great One]

@Joe Shearer
Just one question.

 

[Bhairava]

Gulberg case: SIT gives clean chit to Modi

The Special Investigation Team (SIT), probing the 2002 Gulberg Society massacre case, on Tuesday filed a final closure report and exonerated Chief Minister Narendra Modi of any involvement.

“No evidence against any accused named in Zakia's complaint and no offence established against them as per SIT report,” Metropolitan Magistrate MS Bhatt said.

 

[user1]

Votes in favour of TERRORIST/KILLER = 256792

Votes against the TERRORIST/KILLER = 266684

Votes in favour - Votes against = 256792 - 266684 = -9892

Conclusions:

1. Modi losing by almost 10,000 votes if that was a real election.

2. Modi is the person who was voted 'NO' by the largest number of people.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

if he were to win, i would expect serious communal tensions in that country

more riots and dead bodies for him to be credited for


have fun with that

 

[Bhairava]

1. Modi losing by almost 10,000 votes if that was a real election.

2. Modi is the person who wasvoted 'NO' by the largest number of people.

Oh..okay...

if he were to win, i would expect serious communal tensions in that country

more riots and dead bodies for him to be credited for

have fun with that

LOLz.....Yeah thank Anonymous script for him loosing.

And no, he won three times in Gujarat and there were no riots and sadly for you, there were no killings.

Ciao.