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Terrorism, Shameless Religious Bigotry and Pakistani Mindset

one question why is an attack on ahmedis mosque given the spotlight! while all those DRONE ATTACKS,BOMBINGS on shia on ashura & bomb on MARRIOT in ramadan & bombs all over NWFP are ignored!!!

attack on SIKHS are ignored but ahmedis have found center stage! infact these bombs might have killed many but has done alot of good for ahmedis as a community! all of a sudden they are winning support from every side! i am not saying that attacking them was a GOOD THING! but i am saying why are ahmedis being treated seperate from rest of PAKISTANIS? after all our debate is about pakistan right???

I was and still am equally infuriated with all the incidents but your dislike for Ahmadies is making you feel as if we did not express sorrow and anger at what happened at the other incidents.

Read these and then tell me:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/48064-pakistani-sikhs-beheaded-taliban.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/25122-sikh-families-leave-orakzai-after-taliban-demand-jizia-14.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/14334-islamabad-marriot-terrorist-bombing-2.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/42666-explosion-karachi.html

Read all these and see me and others alike condemning and highlight out problems through these attacks.

I continuously argue with and demean the americans here and on other sites regarding the drone attacks but you seem to have missed that. I am going against anything wrong in my country and you seem to be cornering us as if we only care about Ahmadies and not Pakistan.

I care about all and one, I want to get rid of these problems but it is clear that you are stuck that how come people are standing up for Ahmadies. I will do what is right till the day I die because it will be the best thing for my country.
 
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if i post a thread about Islam then, Sapkarlingway, T-Faz and emo, reply my post angerly. But if you see that kittle151 post against Islam non of them reply it, analizing this looks like a team or group here working against Islam, they again and again post and represent all problems is Islam and Islamic Pakistan, remove Islamic republic from Pakistan will solve it, Can any one tell, if Zadari renamed with Jinnah will really make him Jinnah?

:lol:

Come on, I like you and your views, I am not against you one bit. If I ever get a chance to lead my country I would appoint you as a minister with others such as Sparklingway, Agnostic Muslim, Emo Girl, Asim Aquil etc in my cabinet too.

Read what Jinnah had to say about Pakistan and his 14 points, its all very clear and laid out that Pakistan was a Dominion leading to a Republic, never an Islamic Republic. Had it been the case we would have been one from the start.

Do not think I am against you Maj. Gel., you are one of favorite here.

:cheers:
 
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Still not answer.. Thats the prove, who is with truth and who is with lie, and alot thanx Salman..

And TWO NATION IDEOLOGY IS ONLY FACT THAT LEAD TO CREATE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN..

You sayin it conspiracy but not lie coz, CONSPIRACY IS SECOND NAME OF TURTH, WHEN YOU DENYING IT
 
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Thanx if you really support T-FAZ. But you dont know the facts you just see the body not core.

If Pakistan became secular state, same as Turkey, we have to reconize Israel as state, and if we did, then it will take no longer to Israel to cover Muslim countries..
 
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Still not answer.. Thats the prove, who is with truth and who is with lie, and alot thanx Salman..

And TWO NATION IDEOLOGY IS ONLY FACT THAT LEAD TO CREATE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN..

You sayin it conspiracy but not lie coz, CONSPIRACY IS SECOND NAME OF TURTH, WHEN YOU DENYING IT


I apologize that I seem to be repeating myself too often. But then the don’t know why the same questions are being raised again and again.

I was 4 years old at the time of partition and belong to a middle class but literate family. My late father was a student of Islamia College Lahore in the 30’s and a Muslim League activist. He was among thousands who went from door to door canvassing for Pakistan when the Unionist Punjab Gov't headed by Khizar Hayat Tiwana was against Pakistan. I see a lot of confusion among various posts. Naïve posters keep on insisting that “Two Nation Theory” implied creation of an Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

So let me clear some of it for whatever it is worth.

1. Qadianis. There is little doubt that any one who doesn’t believe in our Holy Prophet (PBUH) being the last prophet is not a Muslim. However it doesn’t give any one the license to go out and kill them. They enjoy exactly the same rights as any other citizen of Pakistan, no more but no less. Besides Quaid e Azam courted Qadianis to get their vote for Pakistan and Qadianis faced no discrimination in Pakistan until ZAB was forced to declare them non Muslim.

2. Without exception, all religious parties including Majlis e Ahrar, Jamiat Ulema Hind headed by Maulana Madani and Jamaat Islami of Maulana Maudoodi were AGAINST the partition.

3. The slogan “Pakistan ka matlab kiya Lal illaha ilallah” was never a slogan of the Muslim League. First time I came across it was in a news reel where volunteer of Khasar Tehreek were carrying this banner.

4. Quaide Azam or Allama Iqbal never had any intention of creating a Muslim Theocratic State on the model of Saudi Arabia. Far from it, Allama Iqbal considered “Deen e mullah sra sar fassad”. Two nation theory was only meant to create a homeland for the Muslim of the subcontinent so that they don’t get overwhelmed by the Hindus in ‘one man one vote system’. It was never meant to be a state where non Muslims are second rate citizens. This perception is a lie propagated by religious parties in their attempt to hijack Pakistan.

5. Before Zia had draconian Hudood and Blasphemy laws in place, Pakistan was a much better place. I was growing up in Sargodha at that time. In all my youth I only heard of two rape cases and a couple of killings in my area. Most fights were with knives or laathis. Even though there was no ‘Hijaab’ people were generally well behaved and respected the cultural values. Mosques were full during Ramadan but only sparely attended at other times. Except occasional stoning of Shia processions during Moharram, Shia and Sunni were indistinguishable. There were no bombings of the shrines, no suicide bombings, sectarian killings or motorcycle riders spraying passers by with bullets. I never came across a kidnapping for ransom case.

Situation remained like this until 1976. Only exception was anti Qadiani riots in 1953 instigated by JI and Maulana Maudoodi. Look at us now. Ground reality is that we have passed draconian laws in the name of Islam and apply ‘Hadd’ on mentally retarded women. But so called pious Muslims in the post Zia era think nothing of raping 7 years girls. Neither Quaid nor Iqbal ever dreamed that Pakistan would end up like this. Even in this thread Hon. Members keep on bringing in Ahmadis and other side issues rather than condemning the crime perpetrated in the name of Islam outright. People attack a Mosque in Landi Kotal say that this is Masjid Zarrar and should be destroyed.

Should Pakistan be declared a secular state? No. Should all the hypocritical Taliban ***** eliminated? Yes. What do I want? I would give anything to have the Pakistan of pre Zia era back.
 
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I apologize that I seem to be repeating myself too often. But then the don’t know why the same questions are being raised again and again.

I was 4 years old at the time of partition and belong to a middle class but literate family. My late father was a student of Islamia College Lahore in the 30’s and a Muslim League activist. He was among thousands who went from door to door canvassing for Pakistan when the Unionist Punjab Gov't headed by Khizar Hayat Tiwana was against Pakistan. I see a lot of confusion among various posts. Naïve posters keep on insisting that “Two Nation Theory” implied creation of an Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

So let me clear some of it for whatever it is worth.

1. Qadianis. There is little doubt that any one who doesn’t believe in our Holy Prophet (PBUH) being the last prophet is not a Muslim. However it doesn’t give any one the license to go out and kill them. They enjoy exactly the same rights as any other citizen of Pakistan, no more but no less. Besides Quaid e Azam courted Qadianis to get their vote for Pakistan and Qadianis faced no discrimination in Pakistan until ZAB was forced to declare them non Muslim.

2. Without exception, all religious parties including Majlis e Ahrar, Jamiat Ulema Hind headed by Maulana Madani and Jamaat Islami of Maulana Maudoodi were AGAINST the partition.

3. The slogan “Pakistan ka matlab kiya Lal illaha ilallah” was never a slogan of the Muslim League. First time I came across it was in a news reel where volunteer of Khasar Tehreek were carrying this banner.

4. Quaide Azam or Allama Iqbal never had any intention of creating a Muslim Theocratic State on the model of Saudi Arabia. Far from it, Allama Iqbal considered “Deen e mullah sra sar fassad”. Two nation theory was only meant to create a homeland for the Muslim of the subcontinent so that they don’t get overwhelmed by the Hindus in ‘one man one vote system’. It was never meant to be a state where non Muslims are second rate citizens. This perception is a lie propagated by religious parties in their attempt to hijack Pakistan.

5. Before Zia had draconian Hudood and Blasphemy laws in place, Pakistan was a much better place. I was growing up in Sargodha at that time. In all my youth I only heard of two rape cases and a couple of killings in my area. Most fights were with knives or laathis. Even though there was no ‘Hijaab’ people were generally well behaved and respected the cultural values. Mosques were full during Ramadan but only sparely attended at other times. Except occasional stoning of Shia processions during Moharram, Shia and Sunni were indistinguishable. There were no bombings of the shrines, no suicide bombings, sectarian killings or motorcycle riders spraying passers by with bullets. I never came across a kidnapping for ransom case.

Situation remained like this until 1976. Only exception was anti Qadiani riots in 1953 instigated by JI and Maulana Maudoodi. Look at us now. Ground reality is that we have passed draconian laws in the name of Islam and apply ‘Hadd’ on mentally retarded women. But so called pious Muslims in the post Zia era think nothing of raping 7 years girls. Neither Quaid nor Iqbal ever dreamed that Pakistan would end up like this. Even in this thread Hon. Members keep on bringing in Ahmadis and other side issues rather than condemning the crime perpetrated in the name of Islam outright. People attack a Mosque in Landi Kotal say that this is Masjid Zarrar and should be destroyed.

Should Pakistan be declared a secular state? No. Should all the hypocritical Taliban ***** eliminated? Yes. What do I want? I would give anything to have the Pakistan of pre Zia era back.
A wonderful post
 
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Mr Niaz, excellent post by you sir, if only people realise this and we can go back to the Pakistan it was, the same Palistan my grandfather fought for and lost in his later life.

These are testing times, but nothing lasts forever and I hope we are able to see this time through together.
 
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Terrorism is not a new trend in the history of the mankind. It has always been a tool for the weaker side to score psychological victory over the stronger by throwing a dice hoping for the maximum gain. The ultimate success of a terror campaign has also been null so far. However, the social evolution in South Asia never addressed the need to exclude religion and tribal practices as it happened in Europe in the 17th century. The social evolution has been much slower on this regard in South Asia even though it will certainly gain momentum at any stage in the future. This will be proportionate with the overall economical and educational progress.
Indian urban population , for instance moving faster towards secularism due to it's progress in the educational and economical sector, although they have still long way to go.
Pakistan on the other hand is pre-occupied with illiteracy , tribal and religious issues. We are also pre -occupied with cleaning some dirty mess that we had created since 1976. But I am optimistic that secularism will thrive in Pakistan as part of the natural course of social evolutionary process as Europe saw it in the 17th century and we will also see it sometimes in the near future . It is inevitable.
 
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Jinnah's policy statement delivered three days prior to creation of Republic of Pakistan



"Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State" Muhammad Ali Jinnah (August 11, 1947)


I want Jinnah's Republic of Pakistan Back, I don't Religious Parties who were against the creation of Pakistan to Hijack my country & make it a Afghanistan & Saudi Arabia

zahoor-cartoon.gif
 
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Sorry for interuptting a very nice debate but one quick question - I often hear discussion on if Jinnah was secular or not, and what kind of Pakistan he envisioned - but why not discuss what you guys want - as the young generation of Pakistan what is your vision - what kind of Pakistan do you want your kids to live in? Isn"t that more relevant and important?
 
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Still i didnt find my answer in any post, anyway you didnt say that ' TWO NATION IDEOLOGY IS NOT FACT THAT LEAD TO ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN TO CREATE'

Coz we are moving away and away from Islam, thunder and earth quack comes near and near, today is the day when we are going to die like FIROON in those cyclone coming directly toward us...
Emo, c'mon we are far behind from the development of SAUDIA, they are well develope from us in under shria law..

And T-faz, i sad to say but you act like munafiq.. Say i like your view in front, and working against from behind..
 
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Still i didnt find my answer in any post, anyway you didnt say that ' TWO NATION IDEOLOGY IS NOT FACT THAT LEAD TO ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN TO CREATE'

Coz we are moving away and away from Islam, thunder and earth quack comes near and near, today is the day when we are going to die like FIROON in those cyclone coming directly toward us...
Emo, c'mon we are far behind from the development of SAUDIA, they are well develope from us in under shria law..

And T-faz, i sad to say but you act like munafiq.. Say i like your view in front, and working against from behind..


 
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I apologize that I seem to be repeating myself too often. But then the don’t know why the same questions are being raised again and again.

I was 4 years old at the time of partition and belong to a middle class but literate family. My late father was a student of Islamia College Lahore in the 30’s and a Muslim League activist. He was among thousands who went from door to door canvassing for Pakistan when the Unionist Punjab Gov't headed by Khizar Hayat Tiwana was against Pakistan. I see a lot of confusion among various posts. Naïve posters keep on insisting that “Two Nation Theory” implied creation of an Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

So let me clear some of it for whatever it is worth.

1. Qadianis. There is little doubt that any one who doesn’t believe in our Holy Prophet (PBUH) being the last prophet is not a Muslim. However it doesn’t give any one the license to go out and kill them. They enjoy exactly the same rights as any other citizen of Pakistan, no more but no less. Besides Quaid e Azam courted Qadianis to get their vote for Pakistan and Qadianis faced no discrimination in Pakistan until ZAB was forced to declare them non Muslim.

2. Without exception, all religious parties including Majlis e Ahrar, Jamiat Ulema Hind headed by Maulana Madani and Jamaat Islami of Maulana Maudoodi were AGAINST the partition.

3. The slogan “Pakistan ka matlab kiya Lal illaha ilallah” was never a slogan of the Muslim League. First time I came across it was in a news reel where volunteer of Khasar Tehreek were carrying this banner.

4. Quaide Azam or Allama Iqbal never had any intention of creating a Muslim Theocratic State on the model of Saudi Arabia. Far from it, Allama Iqbal considered “Deen e mullah sra sar fassad”. Two nation theory was only meant to create a homeland for the Muslim of the subcontinent so that they don’t get overwhelmed by the Hindus in ‘one man one vote system’. It was never meant to be a state where non Muslims are second rate citizens. This perception is a lie propagated by religious parties in their attempt to hijack Pakistan.

5. Before Zia had draconian Hudood and Blasphemy laws in place, Pakistan was a much better place. I was growing up in Sargodha at that time. In all my youth I only heard of two rape cases and a couple of killings in my area. Most fights were with knives or laathis. Even though there was no ‘Hijaab’ people were generally well behaved and respected the cultural values. Mosques were full during Ramadan but only sparely attended at other times. Except occasional stoning of Shia processions during Moharram, Shia and Sunni were indistinguishable. There were no bombings of the shrines, no suicide bombings, sectarian killings or motorcycle riders spraying passers by with bullets. I never came across a kidnapping for ransom case.

Situation remained like this until 1976. Only exception was anti Qadiani riots in 1953 instigated by JI and Maulana Maudoodi. Look at us now. Ground reality is that we have passed draconian laws in the name of Islam and apply ‘Hadd’ on mentally retarded women. But so called pious Muslims in the post Zia era think nothing of raping 7 years girls. Neither Quaid nor Iqbal ever dreamed that Pakistan would end up like this. Even in this thread Hon. Members keep on bringing in Ahmadis and other side issues rather than condemning the crime perpetrated in the name of Islam outright. People attack a Mosque in Landi Kotal say that this is Masjid Zarrar and should be destroyed.

Should Pakistan be declared a secular state? No. Should all the hypocritical Taliban ***** eliminated? Yes. What do I want? I would give anything to have the Pakistan of pre Zia era back.

Niaz saab,
Well and Wisely said.
Ameen.
 
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