Terrorism, Shameless Religious Bigotry and Pakistani Mindset

[Sinnerman108]

thy are here exactly here, you just need to go & search 'em up



I make noise & i will continue to make noise on every action of Terror in my country,the simple thing is i am more concerned about what happens in my country rather than what happens in India, Israel or Palestian, because ultimately the things happening in my country will effect me




we as a nation are expert at finding external reasons for our internal problems, no doubt the enemies out there are conspirating but the solution of this problem lies within our society, we are still in a denial

Stick to the facts !

sparklingway quoted plenty of articles on that author particularly and i took the time to go through them.

NONE of them said even a word about innocent blood in NWFP, Afghanistan, and else where.

in fact i found him nothing more than a street wise political magician and a PPP worker.

Remember, I am debating two things only, "AMOUNT" exposure and "TIME" of exposure.

I feel no point in debating further if we can not understand each other.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I am not answerable for what sparkling posts

its funny that you brought him in from now here, you asked me questions I gave you my answers

 

[Sinnerman108]

I am not answerable for what sparkling posts

its funny that you brought him in from now here, you asked me questions I gave you my answers

Do you really fail to follow logic or u just woke wrong side of the bed today?

Let me make it easier

Emo posts article -> I challenge Article + writer -> Emo defends article -> Sparkling provides substance in defense of author -> Debate for 10 days

I asked you objective questions, and would have preferred had you choose to answered them in the same fashion.

 

[Maj. Gel. Tariq khan]

Here you go again, i have analize some thing and want to put in front of you all, in an other thread of emo,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/60475-all-girls-aren-t-call-girls-28.html

if i post a thread about Islam then, Sapkarlingway, T-Faz and emo, reply my post angerly. But if you see that kittle151 post against Islam non of them reply it, analizing this looks like a team or group here working against Islam, they again and again post and represent all problems is Islam and Islamic Pakistan, remove Islamic republic from Pakistan will solve it, Can any one tell, if Zadari renamed with Jinnah will really make him Jinnah?
Dont know if they reply kittle151 after this post.

Emo say that she lives in Pakistan, so she make nosie against it problems, so emo by making nosie, only your throat will damage and you are representing bad image of Pakistan. Please make nosie for solutions for Pakistan not for problems.

And conecting terrorists attacks with ZIA policy is wrong. All attack in Pakistan is done by TTP. TTP are those taliban who are founded and funded by RAW, MOSSAD, MI6, CIA... And they born after 9-11 to inpopular not just taliban but to represent Muslims and Islam as terrorist religon. They not exist before 9-11. The Afgan taliban who r just fighting in Afganistan they dont done any blast yet on Pakistan. And Afgan taliban are those who founded by ISI in 1979 under ZIA leadership.

Quaid wanted Pakistan as secular state? Wrong, I see the some people sayin that the creation of Pakistan is not related to religion, THE CREATION OF ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN IS BASED ON TWO NATION IDEOLOGY. ONE MUSLIMS AND OTHER NON MUSLIMS. THIS COUNTRY IS NOT FOR PAKISTANIS, THIS COUNTRY IS FOR THE MUSLIMS NATION OF BARYHSGEER. PAKISTANI NAME IS GIVEN US COZ WE LIVE IN PAKISTAN, OTHERWISE THEIR IS NO PAKISTANI BEFORE PAKISTAN, WE WERE CALLED INDIAN MUSLIMS. YOU CANT WIPE ITS IDEOLOGY.

I dont know, who spread hate against Islam and Islamic Pakistan here, are Pakistani or not, are they Muslim or not.. But not only these people but all media is doing this..

If any one agree and see it as truth. Please copy it and paste it in all threads to aware people.

 

[pak-marine]

Maj. Gel. Tariq khan;911734]

Quaid wanted Pakistan as secular state? Wrong,I see the some people sayin that the creation of Pakistan is not related to religion, THE CREATION OF ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN IS BASED ON TWO NATION IDEOLOGY. ONE MUSLIMS AND OTHER NON MUSLIMS. THIS COUNTRY IS NOT FOR PAKISTANIS, THIS COUNTRY IS FOR THE MUSLIMS NATION OF BARYHSGEER. PAKISTANI NAME IS GIVEN US COZ WE LIVE IN PAKISTAN, OTHERWISE THEIR IS NO PAKISTANI BEFORE PAKISTAN, WE WERE CALLED INDIAN MUSLIMS. YOU CANT WIPE ITS IDEOLOGY.

you are so insanely wrong here ... please anylyse if he wishes to do so than he would have called pakistan Islamic republic yet he choose the name republic of Pakistan. Kindly refer to his speeches , after the creation of Pakistan he QA clearly specified his vision about minorities and all.

 

[sparklingway]

Here you go again, i have analize some thing and want to put in front of you all, in an other thread of emo,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/60475-all-girls-aren-t-call-girls-28.html

if i post a thread about Islam then, Sapkarlingway, T-Faz and emo, reply my post angerly. But if you see that kittle151 post against Islam non of them reply it, analizing this looks like a team or group here working against Islam, they again and again post and represent all problems is Islam and Islamic Pakistan, remove Islamic republic from Pakistan will solve it, Can any one tell, if Zadari renamed with Jinnah will really make him Jinnah?
Dont know if they reply kittle151 after this post.

Playing the victim card, just like our popular mindset where we are the victims of a foreign conspiracy and aren't wrong in any way? That idiot was reported numerous times. Trolls shouldn't be feeded. No stop rambling and playing the victim card that you're a righteous soldier being oppressed by a liberal fascist, "western" ideology.

Also, a facepalm is not a sign of anger, rather a personification of frustration that one has to deal with while reading short rants posted every three minutes that end with an assumption and a hollow question.

Quaid wanted Pakistan as secular state? Wrong, I see the some people sayin that the creation of Pakistan is not related to religion, THE CREATION OF ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN IS BASED ON TWO NATION IDEOLOGY. ONE MUSLIMS AND OTHER NON MUSLIMS. THIS COUNTRY IS NOT FOR PAKISTANIS, THIS COUNTRY IS FOR THE MUSLIMS NATION OF BARYHSGEER. PAKISTANI NAME IS GIVEN US COZ WE LIVE IN PAKISTAN, OTHERWISE THEIR IS NO PAKISTANI BEFORE PAKISTAN, WE WERE CALLED INDIAN MUSLIMS. YOU CANT WIPE ITS IDEOLOGY.

Jinnah wanted a secular state. This can be proven by his written accounts and speeches. Most people only add quotes. I can add from private letters from the Jinnah Papers as well. He leaves no doubt over the issue of separation between state and religion. You cannot twist Jinnah's words.

This does not mean that everybody who participated in the movement wanted a secular state or imagined he would be living in a secular state. Nobody imagined a theocratic state either for the result of the last pan Islamic movement was visible to most of them (the disaster that was the Khilafat Movement and the associated Hijrat to Afghanistan).

The two nation theory is not based on religious identity alone, rather an identity that stems of a community of people who share more than religion including social, political and cultural history with each other. Don't start the ideology debate for most people are sick of dealing with those who have never had the intention or will to study beyond the hagiographies fed to them.

Answer the questions in the attached post and then perhaps we can move anywhere forward:-

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ts-attacks-jinnah-hospital-14.html#post897657

 

[ice_man]

one question why is an attack on ahmedis mosque given the spotlight! while all those DRONE ATTACKS,BOMBINGS on shia on ashura & bomb on MARRIOT in ramadan & bombs all over NWFP are ignored!!!

attack on SIKHS are ignored but ahmedis have found center stage! infact these bombs might have killed many but has done alot of good for ahmedis as a community! all of a sudden they are winning support from every side! i am not saying that attacking them was a GOOD THING! but i am saying why are ahmedis being treated seperate from rest of PAKISTANIS? after all our debate is about pakistan right???

 

[sparklingway]

one question why is an attack on ahmedis mosque given the spotlight! while all those DRONE ATTACKS,BOMBINGS on shia on ashura & bomb on MARRIOT in ramadan & bombs all over NWFP are ignored!!!

Marriott bombings were ignored? Are you crazy or what? Everybody was crying about that incident. It's the poor people in FATA that are never talked about. The media hardly gives a **** if the incident happens inside KP or FATA and outside the major cities.

The media is also entirely silent over the massacre of Shias in Parachinar.

The Ahmedi issue is highlighted for it was yet another fidayeen style attack (all such fidayeen attacks happen in Lahore somehow). And the Ahmedis happen to be the most persecuted, prosecuted and hated minority in our country against whom inciting and committing violence is common and it provides us with an event to anaylze our discriminatory laws, our inability to deal with sectarian organizations and especially the rise of the Punjabi Taliban.

attack on SIKHS are ignored but ahmedis have found center stage! infact these bombs might have killed many but has done alot of good for ahmedis as a community! all of a sudden they are winning support from every side!

Stop treating a sad event as an event that somehow brought solace and happiness to a community.

i am not saying that attacking them was a GOOD THING! but i am saying why are ahmedis being treated seperate from rest of PAKISTANIS? after all our debate is about pakistan right???

Have you ever heard bigots asking to strip them off their citizenship and expel them from Pakistan, the very same way BNP wants to kick out immigrants from Britain?

Anyways, it's a wider debate about our social issues.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

ahhhh when on God's Green Earth were attack on Marriott, Attack on Shia Procession in Karachi etc were ignored ???

i am not saying that attacking them was a GOOD THING! but i am saying why are ahmedis being treated seperate from rest of PAKISTANIS? after all our debate is about pakistan right???

we are not talking about Ahmadis in specific, if you are pointing towards article in 1st page then mind you it has only first two paras about Ahmadis

 

[ice_man]

Marriott bombings were ignored? Are you crazy or what? Everybody was crying about that incident. It's the poor people in FATA that are never talked about. The media hardly gives a **** if the incident happens inside KP or FATA and outside the major cities.

The media is also entirely silent over the massacre of Shias in Parachinar.

The Ahmedi issue is highlighted for it was yet another fidayeen style attack (all such fidayeen attacks happen in Lahore somehow). And the Ahmedis happen to be the most persecuted, prosecuted and hated minority in our country against whom inciting and committing violence is common and it provides us with an event to anaylze our discriminatory laws, our inability to deal with sectarian organizations and especially the rise of the Punjabi Taliban.



Stop treating a sad event as an event that somehow brought solace and happiness to a community.



Have you ever heard bigots asking to strip them off their citizenship and expel them from Pakistan, the very same way BNP wants to kick out immigrants from Britain?

Anyways, it's a wider debate about our social issues.

great twisted my words and interpreted them in the way that you seemed fit!!! good for you! missed my whole point! i meant that not ignored but i don't see any thread debating those attacks for 50 pages!! in every section!

ahmedis are pakistanis first!! i don't care if someone is shia,sunni,wahabi,sikh,christian as long as he is a Pakistani!!!

but to you my whole statement seemed like an anti ahmedi post!!

 

[Maj. Gel. Tariq khan]

Repectivly Sapkarlingway, i didnt found my answers in your posts ever..
Just answer this question...
If Zadari renamed with Jinnah will really make him Jinnah?
If answer is no, then please change your heart againts Islam and if you want a better Pakistan, dont talk about the problems of Pakistan but solutions.
Blast in Pakistan is done by RAW, MOSSAD, MI6, CIA...by using TTP, SO KINDLY DONT RELATE IT WITH RELIGION, AND I HAVE EXPLAIN TTP STUCTURE IN EARLIER POST IN SAME THREAD..

 

[Sinnerman108]

one question why is an attack on ahmedis mosque given the spotlight! while all those DRONE ATTACKS,BOMBINGS on shia on ashura & bomb on MARRIOT in ramadan & bombs all over NWFP are ignored!!!

attack on SIKHS are ignored but ahmedis have found center stage! infact these bombs might have killed many but has done alot of good for ahmedis as a community! all of a sudden they are winning support from every side! i am not saying that attacking them was a GOOD THING! but i am saying why are ahmedis being treated seperate from rest of PAKISTANIS? after all our debate is about pakistan right???

ICE_MAN, you got the point !
Thank God for one supporter.

and Gen Saab, welcome back.

Now for Sparkling, refer to the same speeches by Jinnah and you will find plenty of support in Islam / Shariah being the basis of constitution.

Are you willing to go with those speeches too ?

I already quoted Iqbal's words on the issue.

As for the victim card

Tell me, how is it any different with QADYANI over blowing their plight and using victim card ?
How is it any different with Jews using the victim card ?

 

[sparklingway]

Repectivly Sapkarlingway, i didnt found my answers in your posts ever..

I put question there, especially in the last paragraphs. I wanted answers from you as I had put forward question. Wasn't supposed to answer your queries

Just answer this question...
If Zadari renamed with Jinnah will really make him Jinnah?

This is an idiotic question. My point was never a renaming only, it's a change in public understanding, perception and legislation with oversight that has an effect rather than change of a name. I find your question pointless.

Blast in Pakistan is done by RAW, MOSSAD, MI6, CIA...by using TTP, SO KINDLY DONT RELATE IT WITH RELIGION, AND I HAVE EXPLAIN TTP STUCTURE IN EARLIER POST IN SAME THREAD..

I bumped into a chair. It was done by RAW.

TTP, LJ, JM and all other terrorist organizations operating inside Pakistan are motivated by a twisted religious ideology.

Your eloquence and insight into the inner workings, structure, finances especially incriminating evidence you present in proving your claims is commendable. Sadly, I am not easily convinced and seek introspection earlier than blaming a foreign conspiracy all the way. Do not want to discuss this further with you.

 

[sparklingway]

great twisted my words and interpreted them in the way that you seemed fit!!! good for you! missed my whole point! i meant that not ignored but i don't see any thread debating those attacks for 50 pages!! in every section!

As I said earlier, this is not about these attacks specifically, rather it has opened a Pandora's box for us to analyze our social and cultural values, hagiographical indoctrination, publicly taught bigoted religious teachings, discriminatory legislation and our inability to protect our minorities and controlling sectarian organizations.

This isn't a debate on the attack. It's a debate on a wider issue. Understand it and get over with it.

but to you my whole statement seemed like an anti ahmedi post!!

I did not interpret your words wrongly as far as I see it. The last sentences were a bit cold, that's all.

 

[sparklingway]

Now for Sparkling, refer to the same speeches by Jinnah and you will find plenty of support in Islam / Shariah being the basis of constitution.

Post a quote were Jinnah mentions Shariah being the basis of our constitution and legislation. Do not post a quote where he says that our country will run on Islamic values. I went references to Shariat being the basis of all our legislation, support for the intertwining of religion and state and support for the concept of Khilafa. Don't post Dr. Israr's interview for he fails to quote Jinnah and distorts historical accounts entirely for you'll fail yourself if you do that.

And please don't refer to The Shariat Application Act of 1937, that is a separate issue altogether.

Also please refer to the questions I post in the following article. I would be happy if you could answer the questions eloquently. Reject the initial paragraph for the context is different. The questions I pose are almost entirely in the last few paragraphs.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ts-attacks-jinnah-hospital-14.html#post897657

Are you willing to go with those speeches too ?

Yes, I am willing to

I already quoted Iqbal's words on the issue.

The progression of Iqbal's views is necessary to analyze his words, especially contextualizing his arguments is necessary. The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam is quite distinct in views of legislation and caliphate than the populist views on these issues today. We were talking about Jinnah here anyways. First settle this, we can move to Iqbal later.

Tell me, how is it any different with QADYANI over blowing their plight and using victim card ?
How is it any different with Jews using the victim card ?

I'll force you not to recite any religious script in public, not to use salam in public, refrain from identifying your religious identity from the way you want to, force social isolation on you, make it acceptable to kill you in the name of religion, allow the use of public speakers to call for your community's murder and mass executions and allow sectarian and religious organizations to harass and murder you since 1951 and then you tell me who's playing the victim card. Stop being cold. This topic isn't about Ahmedis anyways, it's about our social, cultural, political and historical values that lead to bigotry and intolerance.