Tejas to cost 42 Million USD a piece to IAF

[Raj-Hindustani]

Out of 42 million I wonder how much goes to foreign suppliers i would say atleast 35 million.

Bro, 75% + parts are indigenous..

The major part are being import engine ( even China also import), radar ( Indian radar is almost getting ready), ejection seat ( even f22 - imported)

However, if you buy plane from other countries then you will never able to produce in indigenously.

Now, India needs to finish work of local engine and radar to reach 95% within the ten years.

It will be best for incoming new fighters...


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[PradoTLC]

Yes we all should strive to be the success that Pakistan is in the world. Noted.

so typical indian....when you lose an argument. hahhaha

take a lesson how PAF has done with JF-17. They have clearly applied them selves better then you lot.

If the LCA is so good, why does India need aircrafts in the same class such the Saab Gripen, F-16 etc. Shouldn’t the LCA suffice?

they need to tell their people they more capable then cleaning toliets

 

[Dark1]

so typical indian....when you lose an argument. hahhaha

take a lesson how PAF has done with JF-17. They have clearly applied them selves better then you lot.




they need to tell their people they more capable then cleaning toliets

You are a typical uninformed teenager who thinks Pakistan has made jf17 in a industrial vacuum in Pakistan. You guys have just bought the jf17 from China and assemble it in Pakistan.
Pakistan has no industry to speak for and even building a plane is beyond it.
And I say this as a industry professional.
Dont embarrass yourself with any more answers as I feel comparing Indian industry with Pakistan is laughable.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

You are paying high price for the Rafales as it includes the money to grease the palm of your PM and crony capitalists.

What nonsense. Do you think government can't get money through other means like FDI? Talking trash is your only defence.

Offsets are not equal to ToT.

The deal is secretive because you need to cover the tracks of whose palms have been greased.

And No! Safran is not going to share any tech with India. What they have proposed was that India drop the plan on developing the Kaveri engine and instead use M88 core to re brand Kaveri as your own indigenous engine.

Offset is not equal to TOT but India won't get any offset without benefits. Even things like design transfer is also useful, though it isn't TOT. TOT is when technology is transferred. Design is merely the dimensions of each parts and the structural strength needed at each position. Any country can reverse engineer design but it takes time and hence India is seeking direct transfer of the design. It is similar to Turkish T129 which has design transfer but all parts are still imported.

Safran refused any TOT but there is still design transfer. India has completed Kaveri engine and will use that itself in Rafale. India will not use M88 in India made Rafale. So, though France is not giving technology transfer, the design transfer os good enough for India. India mistakenly made low powered Kaveri engine but Tejas weight increased drastically. So, now India has an engine which is useless. Rafale will act as a platform which can use these Indian engines.

what is your "guess" then..i am basing on news reports that atleast 60-70 percent of content is imported. and i beleive value content is even higher. What do you think of a plane which gets it engine, radar, avionics, seats, and the most critical part of airframe which is the front cone is imported from abraod.

60% by value is Indian. 40% by value is imported.

 

[PradoTLC]

You are a typical uninformed teenager who thinks Pakistan has made jf17 in a industrial vacuum in Pakistan. You guys have just bought the jf17 from China and assemble it in Pakistan.
Pakistan has no industry to speak for and even building a plane is beyond it.
And I say this as a industry professional.
Dont embarrass yourself with any more answers as I feel comparing Indian industry with Pakistan is laughable.

You have described India perfectly...

as professional to a kid... fact check: India is behind Brazil interms of manufacturing ..go figure where you stand

 

[Dark1]

What nonsense. Do you think government can't get money through other means like FDI? Talking trash is your only defence.


Offset is not equal to TOT but India won't get any offset without benefits. Even things like design transfer is also useful, though it isn't TOT. TOT is when technology is transferred. Design is merely the dimensions of each parts and the structural strength needed at each position. Any country can reverse engineer design but it takes time and hence India is seeking direct transfer of the design. It is similar to Turkish T129 which has design transfer but all parts are still imported.

Safran refused any TOT but there is still design transfer. India has completed Kaveri engine and will use that itself in Rafale. India will not use M88 in India made Rafale. So, though France is not giving technology transfer, the design transfer os good enough for India. India mistakenly made low powered Kaveri engine but Tejas weight increased drastically. So, now India has an engine which is useless. Rafale will act as a platform which can use these Indian engines.


60% by value is Indian. 40% by value is imported.

Disagree on the kaveri engine. These engines are made ground up. Cant be modified after such a long time.
Will never be used in Rafale.

 

[Tom M]

All the idiots posting here about the COST simply don't understand that it is literally GOI taking the money from their left pocket and putting it in the right. LOL

What difference does it make to GOI if IAF pay the money (even if too high) to a wholly government owned PSU HAL??

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Disagree on the kaveri engine. These engines are made ground up. Cant be modified after such a long time.
Will never be used in Rafale.

I never said Kaveri engine will be modified. Kaveri engine is already completed. It will simply be used in Rafale as is. Rafale will use Indian Kaveri engine just like it used f404 in 1990s for trials. A plane can take in more than 1 engine as long as dimensions are close. Tejas uses F404 despite being designed for kaveri engine. Mig29 also has undergone engine change. Rafale also used f404 initially and then switched to M88.

 

[Dark1]

I never said Kaveri engine will be modified. Kaveri engine is already completed. It will simply be used in Rafale as is. Rafale will use Indian Kaveri engine just like it used f404 in 1990s for trials. A plane can take in more than 1 engine as long as dimensions are close. Tejas uses F404 despite being designed for kaveri engine. Mig29 also has undergone engine change. Rafale also used f404 initially and then switched to M88.

Incorrect. Kaveri is a equal powered engine as the rafale but the dry weight of the kaveri is 350 kg more than that of rafale engine. And for a twin engine plane, the thrust to weight is low.
And the blade throwing problem is still not solved.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Incorrect. Kaveri is a equal powered engine as the rafale but the dry weight of the kaveri is 350 kg more than that of rafale engine. And for a twin engine plane, the thrust to weight is low.
And the blade throwing problem is still not solved.

Who told you this? Indian Kaveri is very close to weight of F404 . You can look at the TWR to check this. This means Kaveri is about 200kg heavier or 22% higher than M88 with thrust about 5% more in dry and 8% more in wet state. However, since the engine has to power the entire plane, the addition of 400kg only increases weight of plane by 3.5-4% and the increased thrust compensates this.

Don't spread fake news that the blade throw problem is still there. If there was problems, how the dry Kaveri (kaveri core without after burner tube) be used for developing Ghatak UCAV? The after burner tube is not an issue as it has no moving parts.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

What nonsense. Do you think government can't get money through other means like FDI? Talking trash is your only defence.


Offset is not equal to TOT but India won't get any offset without benefits. Even things like design transfer is also useful, though it isn't TOT. TOT is when technology is transferred. Design is merely the dimensions of each parts and the structural strength needed at each position. Any country can reverse engineer design but it takes time and hence India is seeking direct transfer of the design. It is similar to Turkish T129 which has design transfer but all parts are still imported.

Safran refused any TOT but there is still design transfer. India has completed Kaveri engine and will use that itself in Rafale. India will not use M88 in India made Rafale. So, though France is not giving technology transfer, the design transfer os good enough for India. India mistakenly made low powered Kaveri engine but Tejas weight increased drastically. So, now India has an engine which is useless. Rafale will act as a platform which can use these Indian engines.


60% by value is Indian. 40% by value is imported.

Lol. The Kaveri project as it is now over. Kaveri's max thrust is 81-83Kn. That was the original requirement for the LCA. Even the max thrust is not maintainable for a long time.
This will be a mk2 engine of Kaveri which they want a 110KN engine to fit AMCA. IAF is not interested for a local engine for Mk2. They are interested in a engine for AMCA however.

However this engine of Kaveri is good for UAVs. Even the marine version of Kaveri has been found to be wanting for the next class of frigates and destroyers. Reports are coming in they will be good for sub 3000 tonnes ships.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Lol. The Kaveri project as it is now over. Kaveri's max thrust is 81-83Kn

So much for your "Lol". The thrust of M88 is 50/75 KN. This thrust of Kaveri is 52/81kN which is more than enough to replace M88.

This will be a mk2 engine of Kaveri which they want a 110KN engine to fit AMCA. IAF is not interested for a local engine for Mk2. They are interested in a engine for AMCA however

What are you saying? The engine for MK2 and AMCA is same. The thrust for both the plane engine is 110kN. How does it make sense to say MK2 will not have indigenous engine?

However this engine of Kaveri is good for UAVs. E

Why is it good for UAV but bad for fighter jet? Any logic? Kaveri had low thrust for Tejas but had enough thrust for Rafale.

Even the marine version of Kaveri has been found to be wanting for the next class of frigates and destroyers. Reports are coming in they will be good for sub 3000 tonnes ships.

The naval Kaveri turbidity has 12MW power. The larger ships need 12MW diesel and 25MW turbofan engine. Naturally, Kaveri being designed for a small plane will not have the thrust for big ship. For that matter, naval turbofan fan has to be developed independently or as part of large transport plane. There is no real technological problem with Kaveri other than that it is small and hence less powered

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Engine and radar and missiles and gun and avionics are all imported. Very expensive.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

So much for your "Lol". The thrust of M88 is 50/75 KN. This thrust of Kaveri is 52/81kN which is more than enough to replace M88.


What are you saying? The engine for MK2 and AMCA is same. The thrust for both the plane engine is 110kN. How does it make sense to say MK2 will not have indigenous engine?


Why is it good for UAV but bad for fighter jet? Any logic? Kaveri had low thrust for Tejas but had enough thrust for Rafale.


The naval Kaveri turbidity has 12MW power. The larger ships need 12MW diesel and 25MW turbofan engine. Naturally, Kaveri being designed for a small plane will not have the thrust for big ship. For that matter, naval turbofan fan has to be developed independently or as part of large transport plane. There is no real technological problem with Kaveri other than that it is small and hence less powered

Another lol. Kaveri K10 has issues with sustaining 81KN for long term. But yes Kaveri in a way can be useful for twin engine fighters if we design. As of now we don't have any 4th gen twin engine platforms on design.

AMCA is using 98KN engine for first 20 or 40 and then planned to be built using indigenous 110kn engine. We are evaluating JV. Tejas MK2 however will have F414 IN engine with max thrust of 98KN. GE has said they can do some mods to increase thrust by 2-4KN and that's it, if India pays for it. There is no 110KN engine for Mk2.

Cos UAVs you don't need a wet thrust engine of 80KN. Infact it won't even have a wet core. Modified version of Kaveri with around 35 or 50 don't remember is planned.

As for marine , agree. Rest is just Mitra in nowhere land.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

have you been living under a rock?

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...16-or-swedens-gripen/articleshow/56372836.cms

Show us the RFP, or some report or news that DAC granted IAF to issue RFP.

What you providing news is for RFI. You know the difference? No, in Pakistan forces dont involve civilians in procurement.