Tejas : Story of a pie in the sky.

[General Observer]

Lets say a car was launched in US, very first time and they have second version coming up, does that mean they should not had launched the first one ? ( Second version would always be better than first one ) LOCKED ON LCA MK1

Not the point. Requirements in RFP's shouldn't change, and features of a design shouldn't change post critical design review stage.

A second revision of a car is just a revision of features that enhance performance of the first revision, not a redesign from the ground up. During the 30 years of development which saw countless changes in requirements post CDR speaks for the reason that this project saw such a high price tag; your government should just have started a new project with a firm decision on what the scope of the project entails, and what they want the final requirements to be.

 

[a.kumar]

Oh good, so you agree that a Tejas is only as good as a disassembled F-16, or an F-15 without wings or a Typhoon without a tail.

Do You also see dissembled Jaguar and Mi-17 too ???

 

[Hellfire]

Do You also see dissembled Jaguar and Mi-17 too ???

Get the point. As of today, we have done mid course correction of GSQR so many times that it has extended LCA project into 3 + decades. Your analogy here is nothing but mere bluster. Avoid it please. It derails the thread. I think even you are not aware what LCA is. It is a TD project. Indian infrastructure did not and still does not support quite a few critical technologies needed to be able to field a technically advanced jet fighter in short span. Additionally costs are quite high for R&D which systematically has not been ingrained into our psyche. Accept the shortfall, it is indefensible to take it otherwise. AMCA is something on which the US is collaborating, so the fructification of this project will be much faster than LCA because the basic tech may have been mastered by then. And in todays world, no country can say there is 100% indigenous project as costs are reduced by sourcing from other sources. Even US sources for its basic MBT.

 

[gambit]

Come on Man.......you may not understand. That's Okay.

I am a 10 yrs USAF veteran, including Desert Storm. I was on the F-111 for five yrs, then on the F-16 for another five yrs. I have a combined aviation experience of nearly 19 yrs, in and out of the military. What do you have ?

 

[krash]

Do You also see dissembled Jaguar and Mi-17 too ???

Good, now we also agree that all the aircraft and helis in Indian possession are as good as a disassembled F-15.

 

[gslv mk3]

Good, now we also agree that all the aircraft and helis in Indian possession are as good as a disassembled F-15.

For the safety of the spectators & Indian establishments beside rajpath,no single engine aircraft is allowed to perform on the Indian republic day flypast.This doesn't mean any lack of confidence in Indian designed aircraft-in fact HAL maruts performed decades ago in republic day flypasts & HAL Dhruvs perform even today.

 

[faithfulguy]

who got better radar..JF17 or Tejas..that will determine who lock the enemy craft first...

It's not just the radar, but also how visible is the plane, any awak support, the weapons package,etc.

 

[a.kumar]

Good, now we also agree that all the aircraft and helis in Indian possession are as good as a disassembled F-15.

Classic "What ever Bakes My Cake Reply" . You lost Dude

 

[Super Commando Dhruva]

I am a 10 yrs USAF veteran, including Desert Storm. I was on the F-111 for five yrs, then on the F-16 for another five yrs. I have a combined aviation experience of nearly 19 yrs, in and out of the military. What do you have ?

More than 10 years in call center Dell HP, Verizon, VOIP you name it, I have done that for US customers, Got interest in this field quite late otherwise I would have been a Fighter pilot Today. ( By the way I have always been a IIIrd grade student)

 

[kṣamā]

I am a 10 yrs USAF veteran, including Desert Storm. I was on the F-111 for five yrs, then on the F-16 for another five yrs. I have a combined aviation experience of nearly 19 yrs, in and out of the military. What do you have ?

Maa, mere pass maa hai.


Ps: Had to do it. Too lucrative to let it go... . And you will be forgiven if you do not get the reference.

 

[~HaMzAaD~]

Modi pushes 'obsolete' made-in-India plane on reluctant military​

NEW DELHI: India's government has turned down its military's request to expand the acquisition of 36 fighter planes from Dassault Aviation SA to plug vital gaps, officials said, nudging it to accept an indigenous combat plane 32 years in the making.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's decision, in line with his Make-in-India policy to encourage domestic industry, is a blow for not only the French manufacturer but also others circling over the Indian military aviation market worth billions of dollars.

The push for India's struggling Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) also comes at a time when the Indian Air Force (IAF) is at its weakest operational strength since the 1962 war against China, which is causing anxiety within military circles.

Since it took over last year, the Modi administration has repeatedly said its overriding goal is to cut off the military's addiction to foreign arms which has made it the world's top importer.

The air force wanted the government to clear an additional 44 Rafale medium multirole aircraft on top of the 36 that Modi announced during a visit to Paris this year that are to be bought off-the-shelf to meet its urgent requirements.

But a defense ministry official said that Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar had told the Indian air force that there weren't enough funds to expand the Rafale acquisition and that it must induct an improved version of the indigenous Tejas-Mark 1A.

"The IAF (air force) needs to have a minimum number of aircraft at all times. The LCA is our best option at this stage, given our resource constraints," the defense official said.

"The Rafale is our most expensive acquisition. The LCA is our cheapest in the combat category."

India's air force says its requires 45 fighter squadrons to counter a "two-front collusive threat" from Pakistan and China. But it only has 35 active fighter squadrons, parliament's defense committee said in a report in April citing a presentation by a top air force officer.

With the drawdown of Soviet-era MiG 21 planes under way, the air force would be down to 25 squadrons by 2022 at the current pace of acquisitions, it told the committee.

Cleared by the government in 1983, the LCA designed by the government's Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was meant to be the backbone of the air force due for induction in 1994.

Instead, it suffered years of delay and chaos with scientists trying to build the world's most modern light combat aircraft from scratch, including the engine.

Eventually they scrapped the engine, turning to GE Aviation and lowering their ambitions for a state-of-the-art fighter. So far, only one aircraft has been produced and even that is awaiting final operational clearance, now delayed to early 2016.

"In January this year, they had given one LCA ... which had not completed its flight testing. They handed over the papers to us. We do not make a squadron with one aeroplane. That is where we are," said an air force officer speaking on condition of anonymity.

Safety concerns
An independent investigation by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India into the LCA program identified 53 "shortfalls" in the plane. In a report in May, the auditor said that the plane wasn't as light as promised, the fuel capacity and speed were lower than required and there were concerns about safety.

Retired Air Marshal M. Matheswaran, a former deputy chief of the Integrated Defense Staff, said the LCA was obsolete.

"It is a very short-range aircraft which has no relevance in today's war fighting scenarios. If you are trying to justify this as a replacement for follow-on Rafales, you are comparing apples with oranges."

He said the plane was at best a technology demonstrator on which Indian engineers could build the next series of aircraft, not something the air force could win a war with.

"We would like to have the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) variety of aircraft. At least about six squadrons, to my mind," the head of the air force, Arup Raha, said at the weekend, referring to the Rafale class of fighters.

But K. Tamilmani, the DRDO's aerospace chief, said the modified version of the Tejas addressed most of the Indian air force concerns. These included electronic warfare system, flight computer, radar and maintenance problems.

"Almost all the problems get solved with the 1A. There will always be scope for improvement, but there are no flight safety issues," he said.

State-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited would be able to ramp production to 16 a year by 2017 to meet the air force's demands, he said.

"We Indians are extremely good at blaming each other - at blaming it all on Indian production."

Dassault declined any comment on the government's decision to cap the Rafale fleet.

A source close to Sweden's Saab, which has been pushing its Gripen light fighter, said that it was respectful of India's decision to try to develop its domestic military base.

"There's still a huge gap that needs to be filled. We are marketing it (the Gripen) under the Make-in-India umbrella," he said. "Even if you add the seven squadrons of the Tejas, there is still a requirement (with MiGs retiring etc). It’s a question of timing. Can they build these for when they need them?"

 

[Joseph Goebbels]

Modi pushes 'obsolete' made-in-India plane on reluctant military​

NEW DELHI: India's government has turned down its military's request to expand the acquisition of 36 fighter planes from Dassault Aviation SA to plug vital gaps, officials said, nudging it to accept an indigenous combat plane 32 years in the making.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's decision, in line with his Make-in-India policy to encourage domestic industry, is a blow for not only the French manufacturer but also others circling over the Indian military aviation market worth billions of dollars.

The push for India's struggling Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) also comes at a time when the Indian Air Force (IAF) is at its weakest operational strength since the 1962 war against China, which is causing anxiety within military circles.

Since it took over last year, the Modi administration has repeatedly said its overriding goal is to cut off the military's addiction to foreign arms which has made it the world's top importer.

The air force wanted the government to clear an additional 44 Rafale medium multirole aircraft on top of the 36 that Modi announced during a visit to Paris this year that are to be bought off-the-shelf to meet its urgent requirements.

But a defense ministry official said that Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar had told the Indian air force that there weren't enough funds to expand the Rafale acquisition and that it must induct an improved version of the indigenous Tejas-Mark 1A.

"The IAF (air force) needs to have a minimum number of aircraft at all times. The LCA is our best option at this stage, given our resource constraints," the defense official said.

"The Rafale is our most expensive acquisition. The LCA is our cheapest in the combat category."

India's air force says its requires 45 fighter squadrons to counter a "two-front collusive threat" from Pakistan and China. But it only has 35 active fighter squadrons, parliament's defense committee said in a report in April citing a presentation by a top air force officer.

With the drawdown of Soviet-era MiG 21 planes under way, the air force would be down to 25 squadrons by 2022 at the current pace of acquisitions, it told the committee.

Cleared by the government in 1983, the LCA designed by the government's Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was meant to be the backbone of the air force due for induction in 1994.

Instead, it suffered years of delay and chaos with scientists trying to build the world's most modern light combat aircraft from scratch, including the engine.

Eventually they scrapped the engine, turning to GE Aviation and lowering their ambitions for a state-of-the-art fighter. So far, only one aircraft has been produced and even that is awaiting final operational clearance, now delayed to early 2016.

"In January this year, they had given one LCA ... which had not completed its flight testing. They handed over the papers to us. We do not make a squadron with one aeroplane. That is where we are," said an air force officer speaking on condition of anonymity.

Safety concerns
An independent investigation by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India into the LCA program identified 53 "shortfalls" in the plane. In a report in May, the auditor said that the plane wasn't as light as promised, the fuel capacity and speed were lower than required and there were concerns about safety.

Retired Air Marshal M. Matheswaran, a former deputy chief of the Integrated Defense Staff, said the LCA was obsolete.

"It is a very short-range aircraft which has no relevance in today's war fighting scenarios. If you are trying to justify this as a replacement for follow-on Rafales, you are comparing apples with oranges."

He said the plane was at best a technology demonstrator on which Indian engineers could build the next series of aircraft, not something the air force could win a war with.

"We would like to have the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) variety of aircraft. At least about six squadrons, to my mind," the head of the air force, Arup Raha, said at the weekend, referring to the Rafale class of fighters.

But K. Tamilmani, the DRDO's aerospace chief, said the modified version of the Tejas addressed most of the Indian air force concerns. These included electronic warfare system, flight computer, radar and maintenance problems.

"Almost all the problems get solved with the 1A. There will always be scope for improvement, but there are no flight safety issues," he said.

State-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited would be able to ramp production to 16 a year by 2017 to meet the air force's demands, he said.

"We Indians are extremely good at blaming each other - at blaming it all on Indian production."

Dassault declined any comment on the government's decision to cap the Rafale fleet.

A source close to Sweden's Saab, which has been pushing its Gripen light fighter, said that it was respectful of India's decision to try to develop its domestic military base.

"There's still a huge gap that needs to be filled. We are marketing it (the Gripen) under the Make-in-India umbrella," he said. "Even if you add the seven squadrons of the Tejas, there is still a requirement (with MiGs retiring etc). It’s a question of timing. Can they build these for when they need them?"

Welcome back @MaarKhoor

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

Welcome back @MaarKhoor

Dude.. you beat me to it... LOL

 

[gslv mk3]

So for the safety single engine not allowed to flypast in republic day then why you put risk others life by send LCA in Bahrain show. How hypocrites you are.

Tejas isn't flying over spectators or over sensitive establishments as in case of republic day flypast in an airshow,Mr ignorant troll.

 

[~HaMzAaD~]

Tejas isn't flying over spectators or over sensitive establishments as in case of republic day flypast in an airshow,Mr ignorant troll.

you are ignorant like flypast air show in Bahrain also attended by large number of people. God forbid if this junk crash over on spectators.