Tejas : Story of a pie in the sky.

[gslv mk3]

you are ignorant like flypast air show in Bahrain also attended by large number of people. God forbid if this junk crash over on spectators.

Hey @MarKhoor couldn't wait till your ban period expires,huh you ignorant troll ?

 

[Joseph Goebbels]

you are ignorant like flypast air show in Bahrain also attended by large number of people. God forbid if this junk crash over on spectators.

janab @MaarKhoor saheb Tejas has not once crashed during testing but JF-17 has what if god forbid what you are suggesting happens to your joint fighter

 

[~HaMzAaD~]

Hey @MarKhoor couldn't wait till your ban period expires,huh you ignorant troll ?

typical Indian mentality, i come across people like you on youtube where Indian people always calling names and abuses when lose in sane arguments. I joined here thinking serious forum but again you people polluted this place also.

 

[gslv mk3]

typical Indian mentality, i come across people like you on youtube where Indian people always calling names and abuses when lose in sane arguments. I joined here thinking serious forum but again you people polluted this place also.

Huh,go troll elsewhere @MarKhoor

 

[barbarosa]

typical Indian mentality, i come across people like you on youtube where Indian people always calling names and abuses when lose in sane arguments. I joined here thinking serious forum but again you people polluted this place also.

It is their nature and cannot change.

 

[cirr]

India's air force says its requires 45 fighter squadrons to counter a "two-front collusive threat" from Pakistan and China

450 fighter squadrons won‘t be nearly enough，let alone 45 squadrons。

 

[knight11]

Tejas : Story of a pie in the sky.

By: Ajay Sharma

Date: 12/21/2015

Great Post by the moderator of PDF @Horus

SEBI investigations into scams in share market revealed that Rs 50000 is the rate to get paid news published in top newspapers to influence share prices.

As soon as Air Chief confirmed to the reporters that IAF indeed will place orders for more than 120 Tejas MK-1 aircrafts in its current configurations, One particular International news agency's from its Indian bureau in Delhi fired the first salvo against Countries Tejas Program by ridiculing Air-forces decisions to order what they reported was a flawed aircraft and also Questioned logic behind not going for larger orders of French Rafale fighter jet .

Attack from International News Agencies on India's LCA-Tejas Program seems to have ruffled some feathers in International Arms lobby group which seem to be worried about new-found love by IAF for Indigenous Aircraft types and its future plans which involves development and supporting indigenous types like Tejas MK-2 and AMCA to meet future needs of the air force.

While it was somewhat expected from International News Agency but what should have surprised many in India is that Our National media to was in sync with each other in attacking Airforces decisions to support Tejas Program, while many media houses in India redistributed the same article in their publications other tried to give their own spin by involving inputs of anonymous Airforce officials or of long time Anti-LCA Critics .

Some media house also went ahead and took potshots at Prime Minister Modi and Defence Minister Parrikar for forcing Air force to induct Tejas in large numbers thereby compromising National Security only to fulfill Made in India Campaign initiated by Modi for India's defence sector.

Paid News for long has been rampant in Indian Media Publications and in past too there has been repeated instance of series of attacks on DRDO and various Indigenous projects. Defense Experts for long have blamed deadly combo of Import friendly Service Arms of Indian Military along with Hostile aggressive Paid Media who have longed worked with International Arms Lobby to create a favorable conditions for their business in India.

Many of our Current and reputed Defense Editors/Reporters of many Indian Publications house have been accused of Lifafa Journalism (Paid Reports) to prepare favorable reports for International Arms manufacturers who in disguise of Study Tours have provided all expense paid tours to this reporters to their Manufacturing facilities abroad .

India for long which has a dubious distinction of being the largest arms importer in the World has been trying to change its image by supporting its indigenous defense manufacturing sector for which PM Modi had initiated ' Make in India' Campain which have been appreciated by Many International Defense sector Companies who are supporting it only to keep their long term business with India intact but also are worried about rise of Indian Defence sector which has long terms plans to increase indigenous route to meet demands of Indian Military establishments, We can only expect much more attacks and active lobbying by Media in near future as and when Defence sector in India grows.


India is the world’s largest importer of military equipment. If Indian armed forces start inducting indigenous weapons, foreign defence manufacturers that have been circling the Indian military market stand to lose billions of dollars worth of business every year.

They might be trying their best to create a perception among Indians that Tejas is not a good fighter and it might put the lives of Indian Air Force pilots at risk. On Wednesday, Reuters published a half-cooked story titled “Modi pushes ‘obsolete’ made-in-India plane on reluctant military”. Within minutes, Indian media went into overdrive publishing the same story with different titles (they probably have content-sharing agreements with Reuters). Take a look at their headlines:

Pilots at the National Flight test Centre who have flown Tejas for years have said on several occasions that Tejas is a fine fighter. They spoke about the fighter after flying it at 2,000km/hour, at a ceiling of 15,000 meters, carrying 3,500 Kg of mission payload. The fighter can detect enemy aircraft beyond visual range, fire Israeli Python and Derby air-to-air missiles. It also allows pilots to switch to a ground strike mode mid-flight.

Starting in 1983, the Tejas fighter aircraft was touted as the marvel of Indian technology which would make an entire nation of a billion people proud, the dream however is yet to materialize. After having spent tens of thousands of crore rupees and almost three decades of development, the program has not brought pride but a national shame for India, all the while India’s enemies like Pakistan and China are building and exporting their own fighter aircrafts.

1983 the project LCA was started Tejas name only came when it was choosen by AB Bajpai later. It was not meant to build a plane, but to build the whole ecosystem, break the technology gap, build the institutions and labs across the country, and to lead the country toward self reliance. No 4th Gen plane in the world including the institutions was developed in the whole world in such small budget including the turbofan engine development program running in parallel.

The LCA is a direct descendant of the Folland Gnat by way of the MiG-21. A MiG-21 replacement, to be smaller than even the MiG-21 (as Gnat replacement was the original plan of the IAF which became the LCA program) but with capabilities picked up from the IAF experience of the MiG-29 (AI radar+ BVR+HOBS missiles and Helmet Sight added later) and Mirage 2000 (FBW, AI radar+BVR, glass cockpit, long range nav attack system) plus other stuff (OBOGS/IFR).

This has made our task much much harder. Every component has to be packaged as small as possible, heat has to be accounted for, and sensors have to be state of the art. This as our first effort. On the plus side, we have really grown by leaps and bounds.

The development effort for the LCA was lead by ADA. Apart from govt labs and agencies, many educational institutes and private companies also have a role. A list of some of the government agencies involved in the LCA projects:

* Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA)
* Aeronautical Defense Establishment (ADE)
* Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)
* Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)
* National Aerospace Laboratries (NAL)
* Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE)
* National Test Flight Centre (NTFC), Hosur (near Bangalore)
* Electronic Radar Development Establishment (ERDE)
* Council for scientific and Industrial Researh(CSIR)

Timeline

Note: Rs 1 crore = Rs 10 million, $1 = Rs 67

1985: LCA launched with a time frame of 10 years after the Union cabinet sanctioned Rs 560 crore for the project in 1983. Aeronautical Development Agency to be the nodal agency.

1988: ADA prepares project definition phase (PDP) after consulting MBB, France, on some aspects.

1990: Air HQ finds PDP deficient in crucial parameters. Expert committee formed to resolve deadlock. It is agreed that two technology demonstration aircraft to be built before investments cleared for production.

1993: After three years of uncertainty, Phase 1 is sanctioned at a cost Rs 2,188 crore. Milestones include a roll out of first aircraft by 1995 and first flight by 1996.

1995: Roll out does happen but there are serious doubts as to whether the first flight would occur as major problems bedevil flight control systems as well as mastery over composites.

1998: With the aircraft far from ready, the US sanctions after Pokhran tests cause setbacks in flight control technologies and systems integration.

1999: Low speed and high speed taxi trials are done. But flight trials delayed because of minor fire caused by overheating valve near cockpit.

2001: First flight on January 4. More flights follow, including one on Feb 9 at Aero India 2001 [Bangalore, February 7 to 11]. It completes it's first block of tests on June 2.
LCA TD-1

* Within 10 days after the first flight, both MiG and Sukhoi Bureaus expressed desire for joint LCA manufacture. Deputy Prime Minister[Russia] Ilya Klebanov too brought up this issue during his visit to India. They also offered to co-operate with India to develop a 5th Generation fighter(LFI). Other 5th gen aircraft include USA's ATF F-22 Raptor and Joint Strike Fighter [JSF].
* LCA completed its first batch of tests in 12 flights instead of 15 - ahead of schedule - on June 2, 2001. TD-1 was subsequently sent for further modifications including advanced flight controls software as well as extended range of flight endurance.

LCA is the PRIDE of India and its achievement will not glorify our effort, but its fruits will be seen in future, and for the present its fruits are what what we can see with the indian contribution in SU 30MKI, with Tarang, Mayavi EW suite, HAL-Edgewood Mission computer, Fuel pump, IFF, OBOGL, and MIG-27UPG, and Jaguar Darlin upgrade.

In a recent report, it was stated that the aircraft now has some 53 technical flaws which have a crippling effect on its operational performance, there are serious problems with its radar and electronic warfare suites, the training variant is unavailable which makes training Tejas pilots an uphill task. Not only that the reports suggest that the Indian content in Tejas is just 35% while the rest is imported from states like the United States, Israel, France and Britain.

When reporting the defence news, the author should know the difference between the flaw and the deficiencies in attaining IAF ASQR, and most of them will be attained before FOC, and some in MK2. For 35% content don't go for the rant,

Now here is what they actually said

In response to an Audit query (July 2014) regarding the extent of indigenisation in LCA, ADA claimed (August 2014) that indigenous capability developed worked out to 70 per cent of the LCA content in terms of value.Audit observed (August 2014) from the CCS Note submitted (August 2009) for extension of FSED Phase-II that indigenous Line Replaceable Units1 (LRUs) had been developed with the imported electronic components and accessories. In response to audit query (August 2014) on the extent of indigenous content, ADA clarified (October 2014) that the LRUs were built in-house using imported components with indigenous design qualifications and certification efforts and hence indigenous content had been worked out at LRU level. ADA, however, further stated that the indigenous content of LCA worked out to about 35 per cent considering the use of imported components and accessories in LRUs

That's a big if,right ?

Source: Breaking - LCA observed doing double spin, vertical loop in 18 and Horizontal loop in 20 seconds . | Page 4

The story of failure doesn’t end here, after back to back delays; the aircraft is now incapable of housing a critical self protection system which will protect the pilot from enemy aircraft. The Indian Air Force has all but lost interest in Tejas as it was an aircraft of yesterday which is being pushed down its throat by an ultra nationalist Modi govt which lacks any strategic vision for India’s security interests.

Critical Self Protection System --- Actually he is pointing to the internal Jammer in LCA Tejas and not the RWR,LWS,MAW,IFF rather the point is LCA Tejas don't have an internal jammer, rather it is equipped with the jammer in the form of the POD.

My Dear author -- When we say jammer, there are many jammer like noise jammer, bombarment jammer, escort jammer, DRICM based jammer. You must be talking of the DRICM based jammer, because DRDO have
and - Internal jammer technology at that time was based on TWT amplifier which needed about 1000 ltr volume space for integration on aircraft. Hence it could not be accommodated at the time of development of LCA Tejas, Mk-I.

Now if you check which Indian fighter plane have internal jammer -- No its not MKI but only one i.e Mig-29UPG with the Aesa based Virgilus Jammer, which is also in the EF-2000. Problem with these jammer is not only the space, but main concerned is the Heat developed, and it could only be solved in next avtaar aka Mk-2.

Its high time, the Indian govt decides to scrap this white elephant and direct funds to imported solutions like SAAB Gripen and other western fighter aircrafts to meet the ever rising threat from India’s enemies like Pakistan and China. The Tejas program is meant to do nothing more than satisfying the ego stock of the Modi govt which is bent on projecting India as a technological superpower while ignoring the genuine capability constraints faced by Indian aviation industry.

Sorry Gaadi Nikaal Chukki Hai. IAF have already ordered 120 MK-1A, and IN Af is committed to 40 MK-2 Naval. Atleast 80-90 Tandem seat, superlative LIFT would be the requirement of both IAF and IN, and IJT indian indegenous advance intermediate Jet trainer shares more than 100 parts with LCA.

This mindset has also been exacerbated by Indian Air Force’s JF-17 Thunder envy, a successful program across the border pulled off jointly by Pakistan and China. It seems as if Tejas is the only answer to ‘keeping up with the John’s’ for the Indian politicians and military brass in Delhi. The truth is, Tejas has utterly and truly failed, it’s time to scrap it and focus on real capability development for the Indian airforce.

Source: Defence News, Tejas : Story of a pie in the sky.

As far as FC-1 aka JF-17 is concerned, FC-1 is based on the MiG-33 which was rejected by the Soviet Air Force. MiG-33 was a single engined version of MiG-29. Pakistan hopes to buy 150 of them to replace most of its existing air force while the Chinese Air Force does not want to purchase it because it does not suite its requirement, and in the similar way Grippen NG which is MMRCA is not required, which lost in the IAF evolution, and Rafale have been already zeroed. If Grippen -C is offered, then its not better than LCA- Tejas, because it is build by the Indian, for the Indian condition, to fulfill the Indian force requirement. Nor it could fulfill the Indian requirement of High altitute test with full load, Naval variant, nor the cost.

Truth is you don't have anything substantial to offer us, and we have a program called LCA, which is already going to get manufactured by HAL, because ESOP/DAL have been frozen and delivered to HAL, and which is giving us not only an MK-1A interceptor cum CAS, but also naval and trainer variant, and parallel program of MK-2.

A desperate last try by the SAAB to team up with the Indians to co-produce Grippen in India, and even offering to help in AMCA- the 5th Gen fighter plane, whose concept is given by the ADA, because this might be the last plane of the SAAB, because Sweeden don't have the resource, not the money to carry on the 5th gen fighter plane program. But sorry SAAB, your paid desi author could not convince us, because we already are comitted with the Russian with FGFA, which is more mature, and India have their own AMCA concept, and you cannot give us what we want, i.e Engine tech, because you don't have either, nor you have Radar tech. of your own, and for FBW and FADEEC, India have our own, and for sensors which SAAB can offer, we might orders SAAB tech MAWS, RWR, LWR for not only LCA, but also for the LCH, and LAH.

450 fighter squadrons won‘t be nearly enough，let alone 45 squadrons。

This is what Chinese said for themself, because they are the one who is facing joint US, Japanese, and south Chinese contries Airforce, along with the Russian border. Indian would be the last ones.

@Horus

STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE TEJAS ITS A GREAT INDIAN ACHIEVEMENT

Stop Complaining About The Tejas: It Is A Great Indian Achievement | Swarajya


In the bickering over minor details surrounding the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft’s performance, the larger picture is being overlooked.

‘India doubles down on crappy homemade jets‘, proclaims one analyst. ‘Modi pushes ‘obsolete’ made-in-India plane on reluctant military‘, a newspaper headline asserts. A third suggests that the jet ‘could hurt [the] Indian Air Force‘. With the Indian government deciding this September to limit the purchase of French Rafale multi-role fighters to just 36 airframes and acquire 120 Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) instead, criticisms of the Tejas seem to have surfaced with renewed vigour.

The arguments are not new: The jet is old, they say. 32 years in the making. There are 53 shortfalls in performance. 20 permanent waivers have been granted by Air HQ. The useful combat radius is only 300 kilometres. The Indian Air Force (IAF) is down to 35 fighter squadrons from a sanctioned strength of 42, and cannot afford the risk of inducting an unproven design.

While these figures are all technically correct, the absence of proper context makes them appear more damning than they should. More importantly, the narrow focus on cherry-picked performance parameters fails to take into account the larger picture: the one that puts the achievements till date (and there have been many) in the context of the industrial, economic, and strategic environment in which the project was undertaken. It also neglects longer-term economic and security benefits that have accrued as a result of this effort, the strategic implications of which go beyond any one individual program.

The root of this unwarranted—though no doubt well-intentioned—criticism is an ignorance of the scale of the effort that goes into a modern combat aircraft development programme. Many observers tend to see such a programme as a standalone effort by a single development agency. What they overlook, however, is that it is critically dependent on the presence of a vast industrial ecosystem that can supply the components and materials necessary to build high-performance aircraft.

The development of such an ecosystem is a time-consuming, painstakingly difficult, and expensive undertaking fraught with grave risks. It typically goes hand-in-hand with the introduction of homegrown aircraft designs, and progresses as these designs become increasingly sophisticated over the years. This setup has to be sustained with large orders from the end user, or it collapses upon itself.

In the 1980s, when India set out to develop the LCA, every advanced country that was working on cutting-edge fighter projects had two major advantages going for it: Years of experience building military aircraft, and a fully-developed industrial base which could provide in short order the components and subsystems that went into aircraft designs. For instance, the designers of the Rafale drew on decades of experience with advanced fighters like the Ouragan, Mystere, Super Etendard, Mirage-III, and Mirage-2000 for the French air force. They could count on an assortment of well-established French companies such as Dassault Aviation, Sagem, Thales, Snecma, and several others to supply many of the critical technologies that went into the Rafale: composite materials, avionics, radar, flight control systems, engines, and so on. They also had near-unlimited access to a global network of aerospace suppliers like Moog Controls of the UK, Eaton Aerospace of the US, and TITAL GmbH of Germany to procure components and services that French vendors were unable to offer.

In contrast, India’s industrial infrastructure lagged woefully behind that of established industrial powers. The state-owned aerospace company, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) was essentially an assembly shop for foreign designs, and had very little experience with large-scale research and development. So dependent were Indian industrial giants on foreign technology, they would routinely import simple tools like torque wrenches from abroad because the technology to make them locally did not exist. There wasn’t a single Indian entity that could build composite airframes, aerospace-grade actuators, ruggedised (or even commercial-grade) avionics, multi-function displays, or high-performance jet engines. Each and every one of these items to be developed, from scratch, by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and its partners, or procured from foreign suppliers. Access to the latter became very restricted after sanctions were applied following the nuclear tests in 1998.

In spite of such hurdles, the achievements have been nothing short of phenomenal: India has developed a fourth-generation fighter from scratch, one that uses several critical technologies and subsystems that have been developed in-house on a shoestring budget. The LCA’s mission computers, electronic warfare systems, man machine interface, flight control systems, composite airframe technology—these have been developed in India and are all flying on multiple IAF aircraft today in the form of upgrades. The MiG-21 Bison, the MiG-27 Upgrade, the Jaguar Darin III—they all source several local subsystems and components developed by Indian entities. The Sukhoi Su-30MKI, which Indian aviation enthusiasts venerate more than any other fighter, owes much of its success to the DRDO-run Project Vetrivale, which was possible only because of the sweat and toil that went into the LCA programme. In the process, the nation has developed a respectable system of specialised companies and suppliers that can contribute to future projects. Astra Microwave, Data Patterns, and Samtel are just a few examples of companies that cut their teeth on the LCA and now offer world-class aerospace components, subsystems and services.

The benefits of the technologies and infrastructure developed as a result of these programmes extend beyond individual projects. Owing to their strategic nature, they have the potential to strongly influence economic and national security outcomes for the better. One could argue that they already do. They have enabled the manufacture of engineered systems for civilian and military use that are tailored to local requirements, as well as spin-offs in other sectors of the economy.

To take just one example, some of the technologies developed in the course of the Tejas’ Kaveri engine programme are now used by Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL) in the manufacture of gas turbine engines for power generation. If exploited properly, they shall go a long way towards limiting the expenditure of foreign exchange on imported weaponry that generates very little economic benefit. More importantly, they shall empower the nation to take (or threaten) military action while limiting the risks of coercive pressure from hostile countries that might use technology embargoes or the termination of military sales to restrict the supply of critical military equipment.

And that is the real benefit of inducting a locally-made jet in large numbers, even though it may fall short on certain performance parameters. As Shiv Aroor so rightly says, the endless bickering over minute technical details has to stop. The enormity of what has been achieved cannot be allowed to come to naught because the Tejas’ turn rates are a couple of degrees short of what is required, or because the nose cone could be improved to achieve better radar performance.

With a home-grown fighter, the IAF gets a weapon that it can tinker with in unlimited amounts without having to seek approval from vendors guided by their own narrow interests. It gets the freedom to not treat that weapon as a scarce resource that has to be rationed across the breadth of the national border and not worry about treating as a scarce resource. And with the technological know-how as well as an industrial ecosystem largely in place, the development of the next generation of fighter is bound to be a little smoother, a little less uncertain, and constrained by fewer technological hurdles than the LCA was.

 

[knight11]

typical Indian mentality, i come across people like you on youtube where Indian people always calling names and abuses when lose in sane arguments. I joined here thinking serious forum but again you people polluted this place also.

Hello Markhoor how r you.

 

[krash]

Classic "What ever Bakes My Cake Reply" . You lost Dude

For the safety of the spectators & Indian establishments beside rajpath,no single engine aircraft is allowed to perform on the Indian republic day flypast.This doesn't mean any lack of confidence in Indian designed aircraft-in fact HAL maruts performed decades ago in republic day flypasts & HAL Dhruvs perform even today.

See, you say that but what the rest of the world hears is that the IAF does not trust its own aircraft flying over crowds, aircraft that for many years have been doing exactly that in many other countries' hands. It leads the said rest of the world to the logical conclusion that IAF does not trust its own maintenance work. Because let's face it, the excuse of the Indian Government being the only government in the world worried about safe guarding its crowds is a bit disingenuous. Then seeing the IAF's track record of crashes, the thought is only further fortified. This then brings the humorous question; would the IAF restrict their single engine aircraft to fly only over non-populated regions during a war as well?

Furthermore, if the IAF did allow a bought German design to fly and still does allow the EC-145/BK 117 clone to fly then why not the LCA?

 

[gslv mk3]

See, you say that but what the rest of the world hears is that the IAF does not trust its own aircraft flying over crowds, aircraft that for many years have been doing exactly that in many other countries' hands. It leads the said rest of the world to the logical conclusion that IAF does not trust its own maintenance work. Because let's face it, the excuse of the Indian Government being the only government in the world worried about safe guarding its crowds is a bit disingenuous.

I expected this kind of moronic reply from you.Your claim that only bad maintenance would cause an aircraft shows your ignorance about the causes of air accidents.We are not interested in risking security.by doing an aerobatic displayat very low altitude over a crowd, & hardly a few hundred meters away from Rastrapati Bhavan.Even a bird-hit would cause a disaster.

Some of our neighbours might even test their ballistic missiles over populated regions (and mysterious metal objects might would fall over villagers),but we are more interested in ensuring the safety of our citizens.

And for our single engine aircraft to perform in public,we have air shows like 'Aero India' and occasions like air force day where they fly over an airfield.Here is Tejas performing,at Aero India 2013

And we have been displaying aircraft our at international airshows even before you kids even started kit assembling that over glorified SAAB piston trainer.

would the IAF restrict their single engine aircraft to fly only over non-populated regions during a war as well?

Ask that your pilots who got shot down by Gnats,they'll tell you.

Then seeing the IAF's track record of crashes, the thought is only further fortified. This then brings the humorous question

IAF's crash rate per sortie is comparable with any other air force.

Furthermore, if the IAF did allow a bought German design to fly

Huh,Tejas was an effort by Indian and German engineers,Mr.Troll.Ever heard of Dr.VM Ghatage ?

still does allow the EC-145/BK 117 clone

Dhruv is no BK 117 clone.Learn a bit or two about aerospace engineering or engineering in general.

 

[krash]

I expected this kind of moronic reply from you.Your claim that only bad maintenance would cause an aircraft shows your ignorance about the causes of air accidents.We are not interested in risking security.by doing an aerobatic displayat very low altitude over a crowd, & hardly a few hundred meters away from Rastrapati Bhavan.Even a bird-hit would cause a disaster.]

Such precautions are only taken when there is a palpable danger of an accident, especially when one sees that the rest of the whole wide world has absolutely no problem doing these displays. The risk by any manner and all calculations is negligible unless you have some reason to believe otherwise, like for the Indian establishment. So what is it? Bad maintenance record? Crappy aircraft? Bad pilots? Take your pick. But, no matter how toxic your reply gets, this laughable "India cares more about its crowds than the rest of the world" excuse isn't really gonna fly in any self-respecting circle, much like the LCA.

And we have been displaying aircraft our at international airshows even before you kids even started kit assembling that over glorified SAAB piston trainer.

So?

Ask that your pilots who got shot down by Gnats,they'll tell you.

So I should ask the pilots who fought against the IAF in a time when the IAF, by your own admission, did not practice this donkey-cart display of Indian aircraft about the possibility or lack thereof of IAF flying its birds over populated areas during a conflict when the IAF now does practice the donkey-cart display of its aircraft? What tea have you been drinking? That try was too desperate.

IAF's crash rate per sortie is comparable with any other air force.

Really?

IAF Crash Records | World Defence
Indian Air Force lost 30 fighter aircraft, 10 choppers in three years
Why the Indian Air Force has a high crash rate | Russia & India Report
IAF crashes lose one fighter squadron every 2 yrs | Business Standard News

Could you find me some counter examples from any other airforce?

Huh,Tejas was an effort by Indian and German engineers,Mr.Troll.Ever heard of Dr.VM Ghatage ?

That was for the HAL Marut which was designed by Kurt Tank (ever heard of him?) while he was still in Argentina, it was to be designated IA 43 Pulqui III.

Dhruv is no BK 117 clone.Learn a bit or two about aerospace engineering or engineering in general.

Sure it's not......the company responsible for the derivation of EC-145 from BK 117 being directly involved in the Dhruv and then the two choppers sharing less dissimilarities than your picture with you are all just some hilarious coincidences....I'm sure. All the while you claim the JF-17 to be a repainted Mig-21 Is that what your vast "knowledge" of aerospace engineering, in particular, and engineering, in general, says?