Always Neutral
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- Jun 3, 2007
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It is glaringly obvious the US is playing a game with us.
TTP are funded and armed by US/India/Saudi.
But staffed by the good muslims from Pakistan.
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It is glaringly obvious the US is playing a game with us.
TTP are funded and armed by US/India/Saudi.
Sir what we need to do is to extensively study Quran Tafseers Hadees and Fiqh without bias and than judge the thoughts of Fiqhs I also do this I was born in a barelvi family at least my mother was but my father he is a secular person but I studied Islam and now I call my self a salafi although a Muslim but if some one forces me to tell sect or school of thought than I say salafi because what ever salafi teaches you can find them in Quran and Hadees but I have asked several bralevis and sufis about different issues but they never quote Quran or Hadees
God knows which Sufi's and Baveilvi's have you been roaming about...
There are usool-e-tafseer.. one of them is to explain the Quran by the Quran.. I am a hanafi Sufi and I do that. If Salafism teaches you to read the Quran like a school book.. then I disagree with the idea of Salafism entirely.
sir I have tested like every one sir all run away all off them and Quran and tafseer has to be read but not by acting like a philosopher but like a follower of Allah and his rasool saw and also students hadees and sunnah and than fiqh
To your ideas.. to me mine. Allah is the last judge of who will be right and who will be wrong.. I defer to his judgement for me.. not yours.
sir this ayat is for non Muslims they can't be forced to convert sir at least know the background sir
You do that, your salafi ideals are pure and you get the right ideas.
Salam o Alaikum.
sir check yourself this is agreed by all sufis and salafis sir pick any tafseer
Really.. Let me tell you why I used it for you.. After all you are claiming to know it all... through Tafseer.
First.. lets go to the Tafseer that I use..
Now Ill bring in Tafsir-e Kathir.. Hopefully you should have little disagreement with that.
Allah said,
﴿لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّينِ﴾
(There is no compulsion in religion), meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear. Therefore, there is no need to force anyone to embrace Islam. Rather, whoever Allah directs to Islam, opens his heart for it and enlightens his mind, will embrace Islam with certainty. Whoever Allah blinds his heart and seals his hearing and sight, then he will not benefit from being forced to embrace Islam.''
It was reported that the Ansar were the reason behind revealing this Ayah, although its indication is general in meaning. Ibn Jarir recorded that Ibn `Abbas said ﴿that before Islam﴾, "When (an Ansar) woman would not bear children who would live, she would vow that if she gives birth to a child who remains alive, she would raise him as a Jew. When Banu An-Nadir (the Jewish tribe) were evacuated ﴿from Al-Madinah﴾, some of the children of the Ansar were being raised among them, and the Ansar said, `We will not abandon our children.' Allah revealed,
﴿لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ﴾
(There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.)''
Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i also recorded this Hadith. As for the Hadith that Imam Ahmad recorded, in which Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said to a man,
«أَسْلِم»
قَالَ: إِنِّي أَجِدُنِي كَارِهًا قَالَ:
«وَإِنْ كُنْتَ كَارِهًا»
("Embrace Islam.'' The man said, "I dislike it.'' The Prophet said, "Even if you dislike it.'')
First, this is an authentic Hadith, with only three narrators between Imam Ahmad and the Prophet . However, it is not relevant to the subject under discussion, for the Prophet did not force that man to become Muslim. The Prophet merely invited this man to become Muslim, and he replied that he does not find himself eager to become Muslim. The Prophet said to the man that even though he dislikes embracing Islam, he should still embrace it, `for Allah will grant you sincerity and true intent.'
Now, why did I post that for you if in your words the Ayah is solely for non-muslims and muslims are not take anything from it other than not trying to convert non-muslims. After all, Kufr is mentioned right after and so this Ayah or La-Ikrah Fid'een only applies to those in Kufr.
Yet even the tafseer points that it may refer to a specific act... has Imam Ibn Kathir made a mistake.. or is the section of Ayah relevant elsewhere?? I wonder..
He then introduces to what he calls an unrelated hadiath about the Prophet inviting a man to Islam even though he disliked it.. Why?
To show that the prophet did not force anyone onto a message unless he explained its possible merit. You could continue to insist that even that example is only confined to Kufr.. and otherwise Muslims are to be forced into a message without any merit because they are unworthy of being given leeway..
But as I understand what Imam Kathir has done here, and does other places.. is give references to where one section of the Ayat might be addressing a subject that is related to each other or addressing the same issue. First, the Tafseer of the Quran using Hadiath.. and then Tafseer of the Quran using references. Neither of them point to the exclusivity of it to be used only non-muslims.. nor does the Tafseer say so as you insist. Because if that was true.. then you have no right to go after a Murtad because this Ayat in its exclusivity would free the Murtad from any compulsion and you cannot say anything to them.. So either you pledge that all Murtad.. regardless of when they left Islam nor not as non-muslims and leave them alone on the basis of this ayat...Or you say that this ayat is not exclusive to be used as a reference for non-muslims. ..Make your decision.
Lets go further into the Surah. Ayah 258 of the same is also present.. which discusses the interaction between Hazrat Ibrahim and Namrood.
Interesting is it not.. that the example is not confined to Just Hazrat Ibrahim and his discussion with Namrod.. but the example stands to all Non-Muslims.. and in all debate. Now, if I follow your reasoning.. then this Ayat only deals with Hazrat Ibrahim and Namrood.. hence only he is allowed to debate with only Namrood on the Powers of Allah and the rest of us should just shut up when talking to non-Muslims.
Here is where I disagree with Ibn-Kathir.. however, unlike Maulana Maudoodi.. or other "scholars" of that kin.. I disagree in light of this tafseer with respect since I believe that Ayah was revealed clearly to show that intelligence triumphs over parroted arguments.
Now , how does this all fit in the narrative on using La-Iqra Fideen with you.(My mistake in hoping that you would focus on La Ikra fideen and not the rest of the Ayat to get what I mean as one of understanding and not myopic vision would). Your Behes Mubahis on Philosophy and understanding of the Quran on only the Hadiath and Quran is incorrect because in my view where the Quran repeatedly states "For men of understanding" it refers to people going deeper into what it means and not accepting it and then sitting on it without care. Moreover, Your very comment on the Quran not being done through philosophy or otherwise would definitely label the visionary of this nation.. also known as Allama Mohammad Iqbal whose philosophical views on the Quran are there in his poetry and his urging to the Muslims of the subcontinent to wake up were based on this view(because otherwise, most of Deoband and many others were content with the British and the Hindu ruling them as long as they could pray in the Masjid even if it meant listening to Vande Mataram every morning on the radio); as someone who had no idea of the Quran in correct terms.. and hence this whole Pakistan business too is total folly. Therefore, I recognized that you are someone who I am incapable of debating with because you refuse to acknowledge anything other than your own views and like a school boy are stuck on g=9.8m/s2 and I(sadly) lack the patience to repeat at the same level as you do. Hence, I banked on at least some understanding and brought in La-ikra fideen(sadly there is no image of it without the rest of the ayat).. to hint that there is no compulsion for you to accept my argument or for me to accept yours..and therefore I have no wish to continue this argument at this time and we part on mutual "Agree to disagree" and smile.
However, you have proven.. that you incapable of doing so because.. as I said earlier.. the "Aql-e-Kul"..ana-e-kul issue takes over.. and you require the last word.. which you did not get out of me..nor will you.
But I shall repeat.. You understand whatever you wish.. I will understand as I have..
It is MY Qabr.. and mine alone.. and so is yours.. and yours alone.. Suggest you keep your foot out of mine.. and leave it to the higher authority to judge me.. Till then.. May Allah grant us both Hadiath.. and WHOSOEVER is on the wrong path.. be brought to light.