Technical and professional aspects of Indian intrusion

[Super Falcon]

can some body tell me what type of surface to air missile pakistan has here is one option from china to get




The HQ-64 surface-to-air missile (SAM) was developed in the 1990s by the Shanghai Academy of Space Flight Technology, based on the Italian Alenia Aspide missile technology. The missile is available in both land- and ship-based versions, and has been promoted to the export market under the designation LY-60. The missile was previously thought to be for export only, but recent Internet-source photos confirmed that the missile is now in service with the SAM troops of the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) for short- to medium-range air defence role

Development History

The Aspide was derived from the U.S. AIM-7 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM), but with a monopulse seeker replacing the conic scan seeker for improved accuracy and better resistance to jamming. The Aspide emulated the United States’ practice with the Sparrow to have evolved from an air-to-air missile into a multi-purpose missile that can be launched from land-, ship- and aerial-platforms.

China obtained a small number of the Italian Alenia Aspide missile in the 1980s, and later signed an agreement to co-produce the missile under license. However, due to the arms embargo imposed by the E.U. in 1989, the co-production of the Aspide missile was cancelled. However, Chinese engineers used the Aspide technology to develop an indigenous model with similar performance. The air-to-air version of the missile was later commissioned under the designation PL-11, while the surface-to-air version of the missile became the HQ-64/LY-60.

Design

The HQ-64 was designed to engage low-/medium-altitude fast jet targets, low-flying helicopters, and sea-skimming anti-ship missiles. The missile is guided by the radio command with artificial interference capability. It was claimed to be the only medium-low-altitude air defence missile in the world that uses microprocessor intelligent module technology.

The surveillance radar detects the target aircraft and then hands it over to the appropriate tracking/illumination radar unit for the engagement. The system continuous wave semi-active homing guidance principles, and, with the allocated assets, the battery can process up to 40 targets, track 12 and engage three of them simultaneously. The use of the moving target tracking processing system and frequency agility technology also gives the system good anti-jamming capability. System reaction time is 9 seconds.

Deployment

A typical land-based HQ-64 battery fire unit comprises one 4X4 truck-mounted surveillance radar, three 4X4 truck-mounted tracking/illumination radars, one emergency power supply vehicle, and six 6X6 truck-mounted transporter-launcher platforms. Each of the launch platform has five ready to launch missiles in individual sealed containers.

The fire unit is complemented by a technical support unit which comprises a transport and reloading vehicle, a test vehicle, an electronic maintenance vehicle, an electromechanical maintenance vehicle, a tools support vehicle, a spares and meter vehicle, and a power supply vehicle.

Specifications
Missile dimensions: Length 3.89m; Diameter 0.208m; Wingspan 0.68m
Launch weight: 220kg
Propulsion: Single-stage solid rocket
Operating altitude: 0.03~12Km
Operating range: 1~18km
Maximum speed: Mach 4.0
Guidance: Semi-active radar
Warhead: HE, prefabricated steel ball fragmentation type
System reaction time: 9 sec
Single shot hit probability: 60~80%

 

[Super Falcon]

The PLA Air Force (PLAAF)’s Surface-to-Air Missile Corps has been operating the S-300 (NATO reporting name: SA-10 Grumble) family of surface-to-air missile (SAM) system developed by Russian Almaz Central Design Bureau since the mid-1990s. The S-300 missile system was regarded as one of the world’s most effective all-altitude regional air defence system, comparable in performance to the U.S. MIM-104 Patriot system. The PRC remains the largest export customer of the S-300, mainly due to its incapability to produce a similar system domestically or acquire it from another country.



The PRC ordered two battalions (eight batteries) of the S-300PMU (SA-10 Grumble) SAM system in 1991 and received them in 1993. The US$220 million package included 32 truck-towed 5P85T (KrAZ-260V) transporter-erector-launchers (TEL), each with four ready-to-launch semi-active radar homing 5V55U missiles and 4~8 spare missiles, totalling 256~384 missiles in the package. Some additional 120 spare missiles were ordered from Russia in 1994 to replace those fired in exercises.


PLAAF S-300PUM missile launch (Chinese Internet)

The contract to purchase two battalions (eight batteries) of the improved S-300PMU1 (SA-10A Grumble) system was signed in 1994 and the delivery took place in the late 1990s. The US$400 million package included 32 self-propelled 5P85SE/DE TEL vehicles and 196 TVM-guidance 48N6E missiles. 50% of the package was paid through barter and 50% in hard currency.

An additional two battalions (eight batteries) of the S-300PMU1 system was ordered in 2001 in a contract worth US$400 million. The packaged included 32 TEL vehicles and 198 missiles, also in the 48N6E model. These missiles were reportedly deployed in the southeast Fujian province across the strait from Taiwan.

In 2002, The PRC ordered two Altair S-300F Rif (NATO reporting name: SA-N-6) shipboard air defence missile complexes worth US$£200 million from Russia. Each of theses complexes consists of six large-size revolver vertical launching systems (VLS), housing eight ready-to-launch 5V55RM semi-active radar homing missiles each. These systems were installed on the PLA Navy’s Type 051C (Luzhou class) missile destroyers.

In 2003, the PRC finalised a contract worth US$980 million with the Russian state export agency Rosoboronexport to acquire four battalions (16 batteries) of the more advanced S-300PMU2 (SA-10B Favorit) system, which was introduced to the international market in 2001. The package included 64 self-propelled 5P85SE2/DE2 TEL vehicles and 256 improved 48N6E2 missiles, which has an extended range of 200km against aircraft and 40km range against ballistic missile. The first two battalions were delivered in 2007, and the rest two battalions are scheduled to be delivered in 2008.

By the end of 2008, the PLAAF will be operating a total of 160 S-300 launchers grouped into 10 SAM battalions (40 batteries). These launchers include 32 S-300PMUs, 64 S-300PMU1s, and 64 S-300PMU2s. Each launcher is equipped with four ready-to-launch missiles and 4~8 spare missiles. If taking additional spare and practice missiles purchased from Russia into account, the total number of missiles received by the PLAAF has amounted well above 1,000.

The acquisition of the S-300 system has significantly improved the PLA’s capability of denying Chinese airspace to enemy air forces. In particular, the latest S-300PMU2 system gives the PLAAF limited ballistic missile defence capability for the first time. As well as serving defensive roles, the missile system could also be used in a more “offensive” manner by deploying them close to the border to force enemy aircraft avoid entering their envelope, thus forming an airspace blockage over enemy territory.

However, the mere 160 launchers are barely adequate to provide cover for few key cities and strategic assets. A number of indigenous SAM development projects have been initiated since the mid-1980s, but none has been able to produce a capable SAM system of the S-300-class. As a result, the PLAAF is forced to continue relying on the obsolete HQ-2 SAM system based on the 1950s-era Soviet SA-2 Guideline technology to provide air-defence in most parts of the country. The PRC was reportedly seeking a licensed co-production of the S-300, but the request may have been turned down by Russia.


S-300PMU (SA-10) air defence missile system (Chinese Internet)


S-300PMU2 (SA-10B) air defence missile system (Chinese Internet)

S-300PMU Missiles


5V55U air defence missile of the S-300PMU (Chinese Internet)

The vertically launched S-300 missile uses a single-stage solid propellant rocket motor. It is normally armed with a 100~150kg HE-fragmentation warhead with a proximity fuse, though a low yield tactical nuclear type is believed to be an alternative warhead option. The missile's vertical launch trajectory provides fastest available reaction time capability to counter targets approaching from any azimuth. Missile engagement altitude extends from 25m up to about 30,000m. The maximum engagement range is 120~150km. The missile is carried inside a sealed container-launcher cylinder and does not to require any check-ups or adjustments for a period of 10 years.

The initial version acquired by the PLA is the S-300PMU introduced in 1992 for the export market. The system features the improved 5V55U missile, which was developed from the 5V55R, The missile still utilised the older semi-active radar homing (SARH) terminal guidance but had an increased engagement envelope to give this missile roughly the same altitude capabilities as the newer 150km-range 48N6 missile.

The S-300PMU1 uses the improved 48N6E missile using the more advanced Track-Via-Missile (TVM) guidance similar to that used on the U.S. Patriot missile air defence system. The TVM guidance provides the 48N6E missile with anti-ballistic missile (ABM) capability as well as improved performance against aircraft. The S-300PMU2 (Favorit) uses a further improved 48N6E2 missile that has extended range and performance.

S-300PMU S-300PMU1 S-300PMU2
Missile Model 5V55U 48N6E 48N6E2
Maximum Velocity 2,000m/s 2,000m/s 2,000m/s
Launch Weight 1,470kg 1,780kg 1,800kg
Range (vs Aircraft) 150km 150km 195km
Range (vs Missile) 35~40km 40km 40~50km
Altitude 75km 75km 95km
Guidance Semi-active radar TVM TVM

HQ-15

There has been speculations that the PLA may be considering a licensed co-production of the S-300 SAM systems in China. The Chinese copy of the S-300 was reportedly designated HQ-15. Some reports suggested that Chinese-assembled S-300 missiles using Russian-made kits have already been tested by the PLA, but this cannot be confirmed. China has the capability to initiate such a co-production but the PLA may wish to use the S-300 technology to improve its own indigenous designs such as HQ-9 instead. Another possibility is that China will only produce the missile, but not the TEL vehicles and guidance radar, to save the overall costs of the programme.

S-300PMU Launch Complex

Each missile battery consists of four TEL vehicles (with 16 ready-to-launch missiles), a 30N6E Flap Lid B (also known as Tomb Stone) phased-array illumination and guidance radar, and a 76N6 Clam Shell low-altitude early warning radar At the regiment level, there is also a command post consisting of a combat control system mounted on a 8X8 MAZ 543 truck, and a 64N6E Big Bird early warning radar mounted on a semi-trailer towed by an 8X8 MAZ-7910 tractor truck.

The battery takes only five minutes to deploy once it comes to the halt. The vehicles have electronic inter-vehicle communications and data transmission links with elevatable pole-type antenna, and thus it does not require interconnecting vehicle cables. Each of the KrAZ-260 tractor truck has four hydraulic jacks positioned either side between the first/second and third/fourth road wheels which are lowered to the ground to provide a more stable and level environment.

Table: Equipments of a Typical S-300 Regiment
Designation NATO codename Qty Systems Purpose
5P85T 32 S-300PMU Truck-towed TEL based on KrAZ-260, each carrying four missile transport-launch containers (TLC)
5P85SE (master)
5P85DE (slave) 16
16 S-300PMU1/PMU2 Self-propelled 8X8 TEL based on MAZ-543, each carrying four transport-launch containers (TLC)
30N6E(2) Flap Lid B
(Tomb Stone) 8 S-300PMU/PMU1/PMU2 Phased-array illumination and guidance radar
76N6 Clam Shell 8 S-300PMU/PMU1/PMU2 Low-altitude early warning radar
96L6E 8 S-300PMU/PMU1/PMU2 Detection and target designation radar
83M6E(2) 1 S-300PMU/PMU1/PMU2 Command post including 54K6E(2) combat control system and 64N6E(2) early warning radar
54K6E(2) 1 S-300PMU/PMU1/PMU2 Combat control system
64N6E(2) Big Bird 1 S-300PMU/PMU1/PMU2 Early warning radar and IFF interceptor

 

[Super Falcon]

A 5 to be replaced with new ones.



The Q-5 (Qiangji-5, or Qiang-5; export name: A-5; NATO reporting name: Fantan) is a twin-engine, single-seat, supersonic ground attack aircraft developed by Nanchang-based Hongdu Aircraft Industry Group. The main roles of the aircraft are air interdiction and close air support. Early variants of the Q-5 in service with the PLAAF and PLA Navy have now been replaced by the upgraded variants with improved navigation and precision strike capability. The PLA has been seeking a replacement to this forty-year-old design since the 1970s, but with no success. Instead, the aircraft has been steadily upgraded with new weapons and avionics to extend its service life.



The Q-5 was developed from the Shenyang J-6 (MiG-19 Farmer copy) fighter. The Q-5 inherited the wing and tail of the J-6, but has a redesigned fuselage featuring a solid nose with lateral air intakes. The increased airframe weight and modified profile have resulted in the Q-5 being less manoeuvrable. The Q-5 is 1,360kg heavier than the J-6 and its maximum speed is 0.23 Mach slower. The Q-5 is also inferior to the J-6 in maximum climb rate and service ceiling, and requires longer runway for take-off and landing. Additionally, in order to give room for additional avionics and armaments, the internal fuel capacity had to be reduced, resulting in a shorter combat radius.

The Q-5 has a downward-sloping profile nose that provides the pilot with better visibility. The wings are mid-mounted, sharply swept-back, and tapered. The tails are also swept-back and tapered. Early variants of the Q-5 has a fuselage weapon bay but this was removed on the later variant to accommodate more fuel in internal tanks. Two Wopen-6 turbojet engines are mounted side-by-side in rear of the fuselage with two hydraulically actuated nozzles. The semicircular lateral air intakes have small splitter plates. The cockpit and internal tanks have armour protections. The cockpit is fitted with a 3-piece windscreen and a rear-hinged canopy.


Basic variant Q-5 attackers in service with the PLAAF in the 1970s (Source: Chinese Internet)

The Q-5 is equipped with the radio compass, radio altimeter, beacon receiver, and optical firing/bomb sight. The aircraft is equipped with a low-speed ejection seat identical to that of the J-6/MiG-19, which can operate at speeds between 250~850km/h. The aircraft is powered by two WP-6 turbojet engines, each rated at 25.5kN (2,600kg, 5,733lb) dry and 31.87kN (3250kg, 7,165lb) with afterburning. The aircraft can fly at near sonic speeds when carrying 1,000kg weapon load in its internal weapon bay without external payloads. When carrying a pair of 760 external fuel tanks, the aircraft can only fly at subsonic speeds. The Q-5 usually adopts a “lo-lo-lo” flight profile, which gives a maximum combat radius of 400km, or 600km when using a “lo-lo-hi” profile. The flight manual of the Q-5 also instructs that the flight speed should not exceed 0.98 Mach when flying at low altitudes.

Q-5A (Nuclear Bomber)

The Q-5A is the nuclear weapon bomber variant, featuring a semi-recessed weapon bay to carry a single KB-1 air-dropped thermal nuclear (hydrogen) bomb. The internal fuel capacity was increased by 2,155 litre and the external fuel capacity was increased by 1,560 litre to achieve extended range. The aircraft was fitted with nuclear weapon check and control system, an nuclear weapon ejection mount produced by 124 Factory, and a special optical sight developed by 5714 Factory. Only a small number of the Q-5A was built and the PLAAF no longer operates this variant in active duty.


The Q-5A '11264' that dropped China's first operational thermal nuclear weapon (Source: Chinese Internet)

The Q-5A uses a method of loft bombing (also known as toss bombing), where the attacking aircraft pulls upwards and releases its bomb load. This method enables the aircraft evading enemy radar detection by flying at low altitudes when approaching the target. The bomb load is then released at an angle between 45~90 degrees above the horizontal, enabling it to gain some altitude to cover a larger blast killing zone in spite of its low release. The aircraft could even conduct ‘over-the-shoulder bombing’ release, where the bomb is released past the vertical so it is tossed back towards the target.

On 30 December 1970, a Q-5A ‘11264’ flown by PLAAF pilot YANG Guoxiang carried China’s first operational thermal nuclear (hydrogen) bomb to Lop Nor nuclear test site. However, the aircraft’s weapon mount failed to release the bomb over the target zone. Two subsequent attempts to release the bomb using emergency procedures also failed. YANG flew the aircraft with the bomb back to the base safely. On 7 January 1972, YANG flying the same Q-5A dropped the nuclear bomb at Lop Nor nuclear test site and the bomb detonated successfully, indicating that China’s thermal nuclear weapon was ready for operational use.

Q-5B (Torpedo Bomber)

Nanchang began to evaluate the concept of a naval variant Q-5 for the PLA Naval Air Force in 1965. Three basic variant Q-5s were converted into torpedo bombers for trial and evaluations. These aircraft were fitted with special weapon mounts under the wings to carry two torpedoes. Upon successful tests of these aircraft, the PLA Navy finally approved the Q-5B development programme in 1968.


The Q-5B torpedo bomber for the PLA Navy in test flight (Source: Chinese Internet)

The Q-5B had two special weapon mounts to carry two Yu-2 (Soviet 56-45 copy) torpedoes or 1,000~1,500kg free-fall bombs. The landing gears were enhanced to support the increased overall weight of the aircraft. The cockpit was raised and the conical nose was rounded. The wing area was also increased for better aerodynamic performance. The aircraft was powered by two more powerful WP-6A turbojets rated at 36.8kN (3,750kg) with afterburning. The fuselage weapon bay was removed to give more space for internal fuel. In addition, the aircraft was also to be fitted with four avionics improvements, including the Jia-13 radar, Doppler navigation radar, No.45 optical sight, and KJ-4 autopilot.

The Q-5B first flew on 29 September 1970, but the aircraft could not be commissioned due to the slow progress in the development of the avionics equipments. By 1979 the torpedo was deemed too obsolete and the Q-5B project was subsequently cancelled after only six examples delivered to the PLA Navy.

Q-5B (Anti-Ship Missile Bomber)

This variant was developed as an alternative to the original Q-5B in the late 1970s. The aircraft was designed to carry two YJ-81 anti-ship missiles under the wings. The aircraft has a Type 317A fire-control radar accommodated in the nose. The development project was later cancelled as the aircraft’s performance could not meet the requirements.

Q-5I/IA/II and A-5B

Nanchang began to develop the first major improved variant of the Q-5 in 1977. The programme was intended to tackle the short range of the basic variant Q-5. The aircraft’s original internal weapon bay was removed to give space for additional fuel. The main internal tank was enlarged and was added with a soft fuel tank. The aircraft has four under-wing stores stations, each capable of carrying up to 250kg bomb. This variant was designated Q-5I by the PLAAF.


The improved Q-5I with longer-range and improved avionics (Source: Chinese Internet)

The Q-5I was powered by the improved WP-6AIII turbojet originally developed for the J-6III fighter. The engine is rated at 29.4kN (2,998kg, 6,609lb) dry and 36.8kN (3,752kg, 8,273lb) with afterburning. The land gears were enhanced to support extra weight. The break chute was relocated at base of rudder to improve the landing performance and shorten run. The aircraft was fitted with Type-I ejection seat and sea survival equipment. An 50W HF single sideband radio was added for extended range communications.

The Q-5I made its maiden flight in August 1979, with five examples were produced for testing by late 1980. The results of the flight tests showed a 26% increase in range and 35% increase in low-altitude combat radius over the basic variant Q-5. The aircraft’s take-off and landing distance are 130m shorter, and its climb rate and maximum speed were also increased. In December 1983, the Q-5I was officially certified for design finalisation.

In the second phase of the programme, the aircraft was added with improved equipments and avionics, including the tail radar warning receiver, chaff dispenser, new firing/bomb sight, and pressured fuelling system. The aircraft is also capable of carrying a range of free-fall bombs and unguided air-to-surface rocket launcher pods. The Q-5IA was design certified in 1985.

Later Nanchang added the Q-5IA with an all-aspect radar warning receiver and some other minor improvements, and gave the aircraft a new designation Q-5II. The aircraft was available in the export market under the designation A-5B. This variant may have been exported to North Korea.

 

[XYON]

Personally, I believe that Indian's IAF next step would be to intrude at a very high altitude using one of the two high flying Russian recce aircraft's (sorry, I forgot the designation) over the same area. Indian's are trying to be clever and likely take a few photographs of so called ''terror-camps'' in Punjab to be displayed to the world media.

Indian's tried the same stunt few years back just before they carried out the Pokharan nuke tests knowing Pakistan would respond. They sent in the same high altitude Russian Jet which later ran off by doing a super sonic scoot and creating a sonic boom that was heard over a large area in and around Islamabad. This was 1997 I believe.

 

[Super Falcon]

need this bomber t armed misrry heavyo destroy some indian airfields in kashmir they can carry heavily armed missile system and crusie misile systems

 

[fatman17]

Personally, I believe that Indian's IAF next step would be to intrude at a very high altitude using one of the two high flying Russian recce aircraft's (sorry, I forgot the designation) over the same area. Indian's are trying to be clever and likely take a few photographs of so called ''terror-camps'' in Punjab to be displayed to the world media.

Indian's tried the same stunt few years back just before they carried out the Pokharan nuke tests knowing Pakistan would respond. They sent in the same high altitude Russian Jet which later ran off by doing a super sonic scoot and creating a sonic boom that was heard over a large area in and around Islamabad. This was 1997 I believe.

MiG-25s but they have all been withdrawn / retired from IAF service.

 

[XYON]

MiG-25s but they have all been withdrawn / retired from IAF service.

Thanks Dude! MIG-25LR are retired meaning chopped down and parts scattered or just temporarily closeted only to be used at occasions (such as the one now)? Even in 1997, the MIG-25LR was being used exclusively and not regularly! Indians may take it out of the closet to use for the purpose that I have indicated in my post. Let us see.

 

[fatman17]

Thanks Dude! MIG-25LR are retired meaning chopped down and parts scattered or just temporarily closeted only to be used at occasions (such as the one now)? Even in 1997, the MIG-25LR was being used exclusively and not regularly! Indians may take it out of the closet to use for the purpose that I have indicated in my post. Let us see.

i dont want to get into a tit-for-tat with you. they could come out of retirement but the reason they were withdrawn was due to the type being obsolete and availability of spares issues.

on a personal note - pls dont address me as "dude". use my call-sign Fatman17.

thanks,

 

[JEFF]

Thanks Dude! MIG-25LR are retired meaning chopped down and parts scattered or just temporarily closeted only to be used at occasions (such as the one now)? Even in 1997, the MIG-25LR was being used exclusively and not regularly! Indians may take it out of the closet to use for the purpose that I have indicated in my post. Let us see.

Good theory indeed.

 

[XYON]

i dont want to get into a tit-for-tat with you. they could come out of retirement but the reason they were withdrawn was due to the type being obsolete and availability of spares issues.

on a personal note - pls dont address me as "dude". use my call-sign Fatman17.

thanks,

No Problem FATMAN17! And it ain't a ''tit-for-tat'' match between you and I. Indians are known to use the MIG25LR exclusively as I had pointed out. In the Pokharan nuke tests, the said aircraft was used to 'imitate' the likely intrusion of the Israeli F-15 into Pakistan to bomb the nuke sites, but then again that is a story for another thread at another time.

 

[XYON]

Good theory indeed.

Lets hope for everyone's sake that it remains just that.........A THEORY!

 

[XYON]

They came very aggressively, What can be deducted from this? I have my theories, let's hear yours.

The deduction is pretty simple. The Indians are testing waters like the Americans did at the Angoor Adda with the boots on the ground. The right response for us would be to engage and try to shoot down 1 or 2 intruding Indian aircrafts using either air-air or ground-air missiles, but I doubt if our politicians are ready for such kind of a scenario. They would not be able to handle the likely fall-out!

 

[koolio]

Why is the Pakistan government trying to cover this up as a technical mistake, my question is to the Pakistan government ok fair enough it may be possible that they crossed the border by mistake on one occasion i.e lets say Lahore sector but how could it be possible technical mistake on the Kashmir side as well? something is fishy going on.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

The deduction is pretty simple. The Indians are testing waters like the Americans did at the Angoor Adda with the boots on the ground. The right response for us would be to engage and try to shoot down 1 or 2 intruding Indian aircrafts using either air-air or ground-air missiles, but I doubt if our politicians are ready for such kind of a scenario. They would not be able to handle the likely fall-out!

I agree, the fall out from being innocent during Mumbai was already bad enough, imagine what happens if we shoot down violating aircraft in defense...
You need a vigilant and unified diplomatic front to take a nation to war, I'm afraid we are lacking that.

 

[XYON]

Why is the Pakistan government trying to cover this up as a technical mistake, my question is to the Pakistan government ok fair enough it may be possible that they crossed the border by mistake on one occasion i.e lets say Lahore sector but how could it be possible technical mistake on the Kashmir side as well? something is fishy going on.

Pakistani politicians are scared shitless because they do not know how to act in such a crisis! PPP entire top leadership is pussyfooting around the issue instead of grabbing the proverbial bull by the horns! The recent spat of statements from the likes of Sherry Rehman, Mukhtar Ahmed and Yousef raza Gillani are proof enough of this mindset!