Pakistan’s response to Indian Cold Start doctrine

[kaykay]

keep your flawed logic rhetoric to your self, India has to keep it forces dispersed, by force of nature, China is looming around , how stupid one can be to have to be explained this.

LOLs your insecurity explains everything. Anyway I just stated truth and not some 'wishful' scenario unlike you.

 

[SrNair]

The Pakistan-specific Indian Cold Start doctrine has the potential to put the entire region into a quagmire of volatility and dismay. The threat of deterrence failure would increase if India operationalised its Cold Start Doctrine (CSD). The analyses of the level of funding allocated for the modernization of Indian armed forces and its endeavor to overcome its deficiencies show that India may operationalise CSD in next five to 10 years. Pakistan has responded strongly to the Indian Army chief’s rhetoric of facing Pakistan and China at the same time.

In response to the Indian Army chief’s statement, Pakistan’s former Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (JCSC) Chairman General Tariq Majid said: “Leave alone China, General Deepak Kapoor knows very well what the Indian Army cannot and the Pakistan Army can pull off militarily…the Indian Army chief could not be so outlandish in strategic postulations to fix India on a self-destruct mechanism.” Pakistan’s rejection of Indian CSD is based on its military capabilities and its strategy of an offensive defence to counter such an aggressive attack.

Pakistan has an active force of 620,000 men, with 5,28,000 reservists, and 1, 50,000 paramilitary troops. Pakistan armed forces are the seventh largest in the world. Its military strategy is based on geographical compulsions. Due to the lack of strategic depth, Pakistan military planners have to compete with this dilemma. Most of the population and industrial centers are close to the border with India. Lahore, the most important city and Karachi the port city and financial hub are at a distance of approximately 20 km and 160 km respectively from the Indian border making them vulnerable to Indian penetration.

General Mirza Aslam Beg is accredited with the offensive defence concept, which was demonstrated in the exercise Zarb-e-Momin (Blow of the Believer), held in 1989. It involved almost three corps, two armoured brigades, two artillery divisions, one air defense division and Pakistan Air Force. General Beg said, “The exercise...made a radical departure from stereotype maneuvers and self-defeating concept of holding formations. Now our armed forces are fully tuned to fighting an offensive defence, with well-tested concepts and strategies, even in an environment where they may be outnumbered.”

This concept provides quick preemptive strikes once a war begins in order to disrupt an enemy advance and inflict heavy damages. In addition, such actions are designed to gain strategically important enemy areas, which could be used as a bargaining chip after the ceasefire. To implement this concept, two strike corps backed by one defensive corps are to be used. It could be analysed that the concept of offensive defense is still there in Pakistan Army.

From 1989, it has carried out many exercises to test and validate this concept. The recent war games by Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force are also a step forward towards articulating their abilities and capabilities to contradict any intrusion from air or land. To counter threats from India, Pakistan conducted Azm-I-Noh (New Resolve) military exercises and these are Pakistan’s biggest drills in 20 years. These exercises involved almost 50,000 troops. These war games were carried out in the Punjab and Sindh near the Indian border. These military exercises were a display of Pakistan Army’s preparedness to face the challenges in future. Pakistan Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani claimed, “Pakistan Army cannot be caught unawares and is capable of responding to the challenge of India’s CSD...our army is fully prepared to give a “befitting response” to any “misadventure” from the eastern border.”

Pakistan air defense system can provide timely information about the movement of Indian aircraft and its army. There are two air defense commands in Pakistan – the PAF Air Defence Command and the Army Air Defence Command. The task of the PAF Air Defence Command is to defend and shield Pakistan’s air space and the Army Air Defence Command is assigned to defend selected army formations during the war. Pakistan Air Force has an advanced air defence system.

Its main components are high and low looking mobile radars, integrated radar detection systems designed for high and low level interceptions using fighter aircraft, surface to air missiles (SAMs), radar operated automatic firing anti-aircraft guns and shoulder fired infra-red SAMs. At the Command and Control Centres, air defence controllers and their commanders maintain a round the clock vigil scanning the air space for possible air intruders. After detection and identification of intruder, jet fighters are scrambled within minutes and directed to intercept or destroy it as necessary.


In recent times, Pakistan has inducted Spada 2000 air defense system to the Pakistan Air Force. The deal for 10 batteries was worth $656.56 million over five years. Spada 2000 has 60 kilometer range radar and two firing sections, each containing two missile launchers with six Aspide 2000 missiles each. The missiles have an intercept range of more than 20 kilometers. This system has enhanced Pakistan’s air defense capabilities and it can counter any aggressive air attack by the enemy. Pakistan also produces unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) for surveillance and reconnaissance purposes. Pakistan Air Force has two UAV squadrons and is looking to build up to six. Pakistan can use such UAVs in the sensitive areas near the border with India to keep check on any movement by the Indian forces.


This capability will provide Pakistan with more space and time to counter the Indian CSD. In 2009, Pakistan inducted Saab-2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) Aircraft into its fleet. This system has enabled the PAF to detect all aircraft taking off from and landing at all forward Indian airbases adjacent to Pakistan and also to identify the type of aircraft, their weapons systems, vector and altitude. In addition to that, the radar capabilities and range of the system enable the operator to receive an early warning in case of pre-emptive attacks from across the border.



PAF would get three more AEW&C aircraft in 2010 under $866 million deal. This deal will make air defence more effective and bring about a major change in its operational concept and employment. Pakistan military used its intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets i.e. UAVs, aerial imageries and early warnings in the Azm-I-Noh exercise to have transparency in the battlefield. Strategic surprise is the essence of CSD. The prior information of the enemy movement will offset Indian military’s element of surprise and its proactive maneuvers. It will also help field commanders of Pakistan Army to take decisions accordingly with changing situation on ground. These types of capabilities can hamper an Indian offensive against Pakistan. Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force practiced these components of air defense in the recent exercises. These exercises are an assertion by the Pakistan military that it has the capability to counter any threat from India.



The main purpose of these exercises was to convey a message to the Indian decision makers that Pakistan has the capability to defend itself from any unprovoked intrusion. PAF conducted “Exercise High Mark” in 2010 to demonstrate its firepower and capabilities. It has also tested its joint operations with Pakistan Army. In this exercise, Pakistan Air Force provided air cover to ground troops that highlighted the forces’ potency to fight integrated battles to counter CSD-based operations. Such capability is essential to meet future threats on the eastern border.



Additionally, PAF fighter pilots displayed their abilities to maneuver and hit enemy targets with missiles, bombs and other live ammunition with utmost precision. JF-17 Thunder, F-16s, F-7 PG Aircraft and helicopters were also used in the display of firepower skills aimed at targeting enemy installations while dodging radars. Force multipliers such as the Saab-2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft and air-to-air re-fueller aircraft were also utilised in this exercise. Special features of the military exercises included PAF’s capability to launch a sensor missile and hit a target from 60 kilometers away.



Midair refueling and air-to-land targeting, using missiles and bombs were also tested. The exercises also included a search-and-relief operation, use of spy planes, expeditious supply of heavy apparatus using transport planes and a ground operation backed by the PAF. High Mark 2010 exercise was aimed at conducting operations in a near-realistic strategic environment while integrating new inductions and providing role-oriented training to combat and support elements of the PAF. All of PAF’s main operating bases and forward operating bases participated in the exercises. These exercises show Pakistan’s vigilance and alertness towards the defense of the country. The capabilities manifested in these exercises would work as force multipliers. It would help to offset enemy’s strategic surprise and reduce the reaction time for Pakistan Army to respond to any challenge. Still a lot needs to be done to improve the overall capabilities of the armed forces.



Indian CSD has wide range of implications for South Asia. If Pakistan failed to counter CSD based assault on its soil then it may reconsider its nuclear policy of recessed deterrence and deploy its strategic assets at high alert status. Threat of a nuclear war would take the region into its grip. Indian aggressive policies would provoke an arms race in the region. It would hamper the economic and social development of the region and poverty, hunger, un-employment and uncertainty will aggravate in both countries. Most importantly, CSD will seriously impede Pakistan’s efforts against war on terrorism. Pakistan has deployed a major chunk of its armed forces in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and on the Afghan border. In case of any threat from India, Pakistan would move its forces from western to eastern borders. Such a move would hinder its efforts against terrorism and militancy.



At present, it may not be possible for India to put into practice CSD against Pakistan due to shortage in military weaponry and equipment but in future acquisition of latest weapons and equipment along with NCW and EW capabilities would enhance Indian military’s capabilities. It would give confidence to Indian military to carry out a limited war against Pakistan in the nuclear shadow. To meet any likely intimidation from the Indian military, it is imperative for Pakistan to take some concrete steps to perk up its overall military capabilities to offset any future coercion.

Pakistan’s response to Indian Cold Start doctrine

Well CSD done its purposes.I can claim that.
CSD is developed for solving slow mobilisation problem during Operation Parakram.
But imaginary reporting of CSD create so much fear in adversary .Pakistan spend billions of dollars to counter that.So much for broken economy.
They spend billions of dollars to counter a myth.

 

[SrNair]

Following facts have to be taken into account in regards to CSD.

• Pakistan can declare Jihad as a state, making it a religious responsibility to its 85 million arm bearing citizens to mobilize to the battlefield. Indian forces would not be able able to outnumber Pakistani combatants, nor the Pakistani Govt is going to be able to keep its armed civilians locked in their homes in wake of an Indian invasion.
  
  The possibility of Pakistani civilians starting a 'people's war' is more than likely as we are not going to wait around till the enemy has reached our chokepoints. Civilians are trained in firearms, use a single 7.62mm round and have access to large amounts of spare ammo, spare parts and so on. They will make sure, that no enemy soldier is left alive.
  
  
• Pakistan has a stockpile of ~ 50,000 TOW/Baktar Shikan class guided ATGMs. They will prove pivotal in defeating invading armor. For the numbers sake ex-Army retirees can also be mobilized and civilians can be taught to use ATGMs. If we can teach Afghans, Bosnians and Kosovars to do so, we can do it to our own citizens too.
  
  
• Pakistan has 'functional' cruise missile deterrent, to strike deep on Northern India's critical infrastructure i.e power grids, oil dumps, military installations, naval stations, weapons depots, dams, food storage, industrial units, stock markets, telecom infrastructure and so on. India will be forced to fight at home.
  
  
• 80% of Pakistani armor has Night and fog fighting capability compared to 20-25% Indian armor.
  
  
• Pakistan will be able to mobilize its total air and naval power while India cannot, since it has to allocate assets to China and Bangladesh fronts.
  
  
• Pakistan can have Chinese nuclear and conventional subs and other naval assets prowl its waters if needed.
  
  
• Pakistan will activate its sleeper cells inside India to exert public pressure on the Indian govt and military.
  
  
• With Modi in power with China and Middle east on its back, Pakistan can gather international support to avert such an attempt.
  
  
• Pakistan is a Major non NATO ally to the United States, even though the US won't help Pakistan militarily nor would they stand on our side, they most surely would have to apply diplomatic/economic arms twisting on India to save its own face in front of its other MNNA states.
  
  
  Pakistan has a potent conventional and diplomatic deterrent to CSD, the need for using tactical nukes won't arise. We will defeat the Indian forces through sheer and brutal projection of non nuclear weapons i.e Thermobaric, Cluster, Biological and Chemical warheads plus the conventional firepower with an aim of inflicting unacceptable numbers of casualties while fighting under the nuclear umbrella. India would be left with no choice but to either declare a full scale war, no one will win or accept defeat and withdraw.
  
  Best Regards.

SPADA-2000 is for defending installations of national importance, so is our HQ-9 inventory. #Pakistan is a small country and we don't really need a SAM wall especially when we can mobilize our entire air fleet to defend our airspace while India cannot.

Well conventional war is an outdated method in this modern world.We have another powerful weapon ,Economy.
We can dictate any thing in this South Asia, with that weapon.You also know that.
Did you actually think we will attack Pakistan blindly ? Well our Policy makers is not that dumb.

THERE IS NO SUCH 'COLD START' DOCTRINE IN THE INDIAN ARMY!! PERIOD!!!!!

How many times do these guys like the OP have to be told this? Their morbid fear of an Indian juggernaut across Pakistan and their delusions of a counter strike with tactical nukes and so on are getting to be hilarious!

Epic fail!

Nothing to discuss here. Move on..

Their CSD fear done their economy.

 

[SrNair]

Wishful thinking says an Indian who doesn't know what a Pakistani civilian is made of. In no war with India or any other invasion would our military be fighting by itself. Even military and govt combined won't be able to hold back the armed civilians from joining combat.

Indian Navy and Airforce cannot project its total power for a host of reasons and it has nothing to do with if India wants to or not. The question is IF India can afford to or not as it has more enemies than Pakistan while Pakistan has only one enemy. Not to forget that if India brings in all of its assets to the fight, it would be regarded as a full scale attack and would be treated as such with consequences of the same magnitude.

China attack its neighbour and a trading partner of 70billion$ for a small strategic partner.I dont think so

 

[The SC]

LOLs your insecurity explains everything. Anyway I just stated truth and not some 'wishful' scenario unlike you.

Your replies are womenish, it says everything one wants to know.

 

[The SC]

Silly man, when you know squat about India's military doctrines, don't spew tripe out here, especially when you have never served in the Army.

Indian Army chief: "There is nothing called 'Cold Start'. As part of our overall strategy we have a number of contingencies and options, depending on what the aggressor does. In the recent years, we have been improving our systems with respect to mobilization, but our basic military posture is defensive."

Former Indian defence minister Jaswant Singh also denied the existence of the doctrine, stating, "There is no Cold Start doctrine. No such thing. It was an off-the-cuff remark from a former chief of staff. I have been defense minister of the country. I should know."

Damn! Why do kids out here keep shooting from the hip and wasting everyone's time?

You sound like a junky, I won't be surprised by that, you live in the number 1 heroin consuming nation in the world, and you expect anyone to trust you and your doctrines of war, I think you still live in your hallucinations from the Bhagavat Gita, get lost , shut up or you will be destroyed by you own twisted minds. you attack in packs like hyenas, and you have the same breath.
There are other packs of hyenas for you, and they won't let you survive, believe you me.
This obviously not about Pakistan it is about Islam, your nemesis. Your economy is much Dependant on the Muslim world, one switch of it and you are down the hill. You think that China will prefer India over Pakistan, because of a 70 billion$ trade, you think you can buy them with that.
How many of you here are lying, is that what your mother India or Israel thought you.
You know you have plans of war like everyone else, you know that you are losers, you like to talk about smaller nations than you, and you know you are a failure, eventhough you keep bragging about economy, those are cheer numbers , with 1 billion 300 million people you ought to have some money, but distributed equally , you are worst than the worst on the planet.
Now, one of you came up with an article saying there is no CSD, but for how many years were you bragging about it?

So the only ones who had hallucinations were your commanders then, and they are recognizing it now.

 

[kaykay]

Your replies are womenish, it says everything one wants to know.

But as I said, Its you who is insecure and thus trying to bring some 'wishful' scenarios. Lols. Be real.

 

[Zarvan]

The Pakistan-specific Indian Cold Start doctrine has the potential to put the entire region into a quagmire of volatility and dismay. The threat of deterrence failure would increase if India operationalised its Cold Start Doctrine (CSD). The analyses of the level of funding allocated for the modernization of Indian armed forces and its endeavor to overcome its deficiencies show that India may operationalise CSD in next five to 10 years. Pakistan has responded strongly to the Indian Army chief’s rhetoric of facing Pakistan and China at the same time.

In response to the Indian Army chief’s statement, Pakistan’s former Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee (JCSC) Chairman General Tariq Majid said: “Leave alone China, General Deepak Kapoor knows very well what the Indian Army cannot and the Pakistan Army can pull off militarily…the Indian Army chief could not be so outlandish in strategic postulations to fix India on a self-destruct mechanism.” Pakistan’s rejection of Indian CSD is based on its military capabilities and its strategy of an offensive defence to counter such an aggressive attack.

Pakistan has an active force of 620,000 men, with 5,28,000 reservists, and 1, 50,000 paramilitary troops. Pakistan armed forces are the seventh largest in the world. Its military strategy is based on geographical compulsions. Due to the lack of strategic depth, Pakistan military planners have to compete with this dilemma. Most of the population and industrial centers are close to the border with India. Lahore, the most important city and Karachi the port city and financial hub are at a distance of approximately 20 km and 160 km respectively from the Indian border making them vulnerable to Indian penetration.

General Mirza Aslam Beg is accredited with the offensive defence concept, which was demonstrated in the exercise Zarb-e-Momin (Blow of the Believer), held in 1989. It involved almost three corps, two armoured brigades, two artillery divisions, one air defense division and Pakistan Air Force. General Beg said, “The exercise...made a radical departure from stereotype maneuvers and self-defeating concept of holding formations. Now our armed forces are fully tuned to fighting an offensive defence, with well-tested concepts and strategies, even in an environment where they may be outnumbered.”

This concept provides quick preemptive strikes once a war begins in order to disrupt an enemy advance and inflict heavy damages. In addition, such actions are designed to gain strategically important enemy areas, which could be used as a bargaining chip after the ceasefire. To implement this concept, two strike corps backed by one defensive corps are to be used. It could be analysed that the concept of offensive defense is still there in Pakistan Army.

From 1989, it has carried out many exercises to test and validate this concept. The recent war games by Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force are also a step forward towards articulating their abilities and capabilities to contradict any intrusion from air or land. To counter threats from India, Pakistan conducted Azm-I-Noh (New Resolve) military exercises and these are Pakistan’s biggest drills in 20 years. These exercises involved almost 50,000 troops. These war games were carried out in the Punjab and Sindh near the Indian border. These military exercises were a display of Pakistan Army’s preparedness to face the challenges in future. Pakistan Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani claimed, “Pakistan Army cannot be caught unawares and is capable of responding to the challenge of India’s CSD...our army is fully prepared to give a “befitting response” to any “misadventure” from the eastern border.”

Pakistan air defense system can provide timely information about the movement of Indian aircraft and its army. There are two air defense commands in Pakistan – the PAF Air Defence Command and the Army Air Defence Command. The task of the PAF Air Defence Command is to defend and shield Pakistan’s air space and the Army Air Defence Command is assigned to defend selected army formations during the war. Pakistan Air Force has an advanced air defence system.

Its main components are high and low looking mobile radars, integrated radar detection systems designed for high and low level interceptions using fighter aircraft, surface to air missiles (SAMs), radar operated automatic firing anti-aircraft guns and shoulder fired infra-red SAMs. At the Command and Control Centres, air defence controllers and their commanders maintain a round the clock vigil scanning the air space for possible air intruders. After detection and identification of intruder, jet fighters are scrambled within minutes and directed to intercept or destroy it as necessary.


In recent times, Pakistan has inducted Spada 2000 air defense system to the Pakistan Air Force. The deal for 10 batteries was worth $656.56 million over five years. Spada 2000 has 60 kilometer range radar and two firing sections, each containing two missile launchers with six Aspide 2000 missiles each. The missiles have an intercept range of more than 20 kilometers. This system has enhanced Pakistan’s air defense capabilities and it can counter any aggressive air attack by the enemy. Pakistan also produces unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) for surveillance and reconnaissance purposes. Pakistan Air Force has two UAV squadrons and is looking to build up to six. Pakistan can use such UAVs in the sensitive areas near the border with India to keep check on any movement by the Indian forces.


This capability will provide Pakistan with more space and time to counter the Indian CSD. In 2009, Pakistan inducted Saab-2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) Aircraft into its fleet. This system has enabled the PAF to detect all aircraft taking off from and landing at all forward Indian airbases adjacent to Pakistan and also to identify the type of aircraft, their weapons systems, vector and altitude. In addition to that, the radar capabilities and range of the system enable the operator to receive an early warning in case of pre-emptive attacks from across the border.



PAF would get three more AEW&C aircraft in 2010 under $866 million deal. This deal will make air defence more effective and bring about a major change in its operational concept and employment. Pakistan military used its intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets i.e. UAVs, aerial imageries and early warnings in the Azm-I-Noh exercise to have transparency in the battlefield. Strategic surprise is the essence of CSD. The prior information of the enemy movement will offset Indian military’s element of surprise and its proactive maneuvers. It will also help field commanders of Pakistan Army to take decisions accordingly with changing situation on ground. These types of capabilities can hamper an Indian offensive against Pakistan. Pakistan Army and Pakistan Air Force practiced these components of air defense in the recent exercises. These exercises are an assertion by the Pakistan military that it has the capability to counter any threat from India.



The main purpose of these exercises was to convey a message to the Indian decision makers that Pakistan has the capability to defend itself from any unprovoked intrusion. PAF conducted “Exercise High Mark” in 2010 to demonstrate its firepower and capabilities. It has also tested its joint operations with Pakistan Army. In this exercise, Pakistan Air Force provided air cover to ground troops that highlighted the forces’ potency to fight integrated battles to counter CSD-based operations. Such capability is essential to meet future threats on the eastern border.



Additionally, PAF fighter pilots displayed their abilities to maneuver and hit enemy targets with missiles, bombs and other live ammunition with utmost precision. JF-17 Thunder, F-16s, F-7 PG Aircraft and helicopters were also used in the display of firepower skills aimed at targeting enemy installations while dodging radars. Force multipliers such as the Saab-2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft and air-to-air re-fueller aircraft were also utilised in this exercise. Special features of the military exercises included PAF’s capability to launch a sensor missile and hit a target from 60 kilometers away.



Midair refueling and air-to-land targeting, using missiles and bombs were also tested. The exercises also included a search-and-relief operation, use of spy planes, expeditious supply of heavy apparatus using transport planes and a ground operation backed by the PAF. High Mark 2010 exercise was aimed at conducting operations in a near-realistic strategic environment while integrating new inductions and providing role-oriented training to combat and support elements of the PAF. All of PAF’s main operating bases and forward operating bases participated in the exercises. These exercises show Pakistan’s vigilance and alertness towards the defense of the country. The capabilities manifested in these exercises would work as force multipliers. It would help to offset enemy’s strategic surprise and reduce the reaction time for Pakistan Army to respond to any challenge. Still a lot needs to be done to improve the overall capabilities of the armed forces.



Indian CSD has wide range of implications for South Asia. If Pakistan failed to counter CSD based assault on its soil then it may reconsider its nuclear policy of recessed deterrence and deploy its strategic assets at high alert status. Threat of a nuclear war would take the region into its grip. Indian aggressive policies would provoke an arms race in the region. It would hamper the economic and social development of the region and poverty, hunger, un-employment and uncertainty will aggravate in both countries. Most importantly, CSD will seriously impede Pakistan’s efforts against war on terrorism. Pakistan has deployed a major chunk of its armed forces in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and on the Afghan border. In case of any threat from India, Pakistan would move its forces from western to eastern borders. Such a move would hinder its efforts against terrorism and militancy.



At present, it may not be possible for India to put into practice CSD against Pakistan due to shortage in military weaponry and equipment but in future acquisition of latest weapons and equipment along with NCW and EW capabilities would enhance Indian military’s capabilities. It would give confidence to Indian military to carry out a limited war against Pakistan in the nuclear shadow. To meet any likely intimidation from the Indian military, it is imperative for Pakistan to take some concrete steps to perk up its overall military capabilities to offset any future coercion.

Pakistan’s response to Indian Cold Start doctrine

We need to go for more Frigates and Submarines and Fighter Jets for our Air Force and Navy I know about budget crap but we need to take help from GCC and Middle eastern countries other wise in war we would only have to use Nuclear Weapons in response to any adventure done by India and we need to get the weapons fast

 

[Capt.Popeye]

We need to go for more Frigates and Submarines and Fighter Jets for our Air Force and Navy I know about budget crap but we need to take help from GCC and Middle eastern countries other wise in war we would only have to use Nuclear Weapons in response to any adventure done by India and we need to get the weapons fast

Also try Somalia and Rwanda Burundi and Cameroun. All of them may offer their check-books to a really desperate 'down and out' hobo.

China attack its neighbour and a trading partner of 70billion$ for a small strategic partner.I dont think so

All the evidence clearly shows that China does not willingly step into somebody else's shit; whether 1965, 1971(which was the height of desperation) or 1999 (when China told 'the deeper than ........and higher than........' to simply back out).
So Aeronut is simply fantasising. Leave him to that. ;-)

 

[SrNair]

You sound like a junky, I won't be surprised by that, you live in the number 1 heroin consuming nation in the world, and you expect anyone to trust you and your doctrines of war, I think you still live in your hallucinations from the Bhagavat Gita, get lost , shut up or you will be destroyed by you own twisted minds. you attack in packs like hyenas, and you have the same breath.
There are other packs of hyenas for you, and they won't let you survive, believe you me.
This obviously not about Pakistan it is about Islam, your nemesis. Your economy is much Dependant on the Muslim world, one switch of it and you are down the hill. You think that China will prefer India over Pakistan, because of a 70 billion$ trade, you think you can buy them with that.
How many of you here are lying, is that what your mother India or Israel thought you.
You know you have plans of war like everyone else, you know that you are losers, you like to talk about smaller nations than you, and you know you are a failure, eventhough you keep bragging about economy, those are cheer numbers , with 1 billion 300 million people you ought to have some money, but distributed equally , you are worst than the worst on the planet.
Now, one of you came up with an article saying there is no CSD, but for how many years were you bragging about it?

So the only ones who had hallucinations were your commanders then, and they are recognizing it now.

Who brag about CSD?
If you have a pc and internet connection just google you can see there is no such thing called CSD.
Our commanders only aimed for a speedy mobilisation of 1.3 milliin army and its assets .In sense it was your commanders and leaders are stupid,they simply swallow sensational frenzy reporting of Indian media and spent lot of money for so called CSD myth.
Haha your boasting of middile east.
We gave Human resources to them, from labour to CEOs ,and we also gave
lot of contributions for their development.In return we are buying
Oil from them for more than 150 billion dollar.It is just a good business.We know they will support pakistan against India but that is only through money and weapons .they dont take weapons against us.They also gave you financial support in last 4 wars.But none of that change the outcome of war.And that will remain like that in future.
More funny is your boasting about China.Well we couldnt see your taller than mountain deeper than ocean friend in last 4 wars except weapons supply or just a business.
Wake up friend ,to real world.In this world it is all about money ,it can buy many things even power .A good economy plus S&T in all fields including defence and space you can outmatch rest of nations

 

[notorious_eagle]

Pakistan can declare Jihad as a state, making it a religious responsibility to its 85 million arm bearing citizens to mobilize to the battlefield. Indian forces would not be able able to outnumber Pakistani combatants, nor the Pakistani Govt is going to be able to keep its armed civilians locked in their homes in wake of an Indian invasion.

The possibility of Pakistani civilians starting a 'people's war' is more than likely as we are not going to wait around till the enemy has reached our chokepoints. Civilians are trained in firearms, use a single 7.62mm round and have access to large amounts of spare ammo, spare parts and so on. They will make sure, that no enemy soldier is left alive.

Calm Down. No need to train any civilians or fight a 'Total War'.

First of all, it will not be a 'Total War because it will result in complete destruction of the subcontinent. Second, Pakistan has enough conventional firepower to smash anything the Indians can throw at us. They know it, we know it and that is why we successfully stared them down the last two times we came close to exchanging blows. Any concentration of Armour or Mechanized Assets on the Indian Side will be smashed by Pakistan's superior Artillery Guns and MBRLS.

If we can teach Afghans, Bosnians and Kosovars to do so, we can do it to our own citizens too.

No need for that, Pakistan Army is enough

All the evidence clearly shows that China does not willingly step into somebody else's shit; whether 1965, 1971(which was the height of desperation) or 1999 (when China told 'the deeper than ........and higher than........' to simply back out).
So Aeronut is simply fantasising. Leave him to that. ;-)

We don't expect the Chinese to come and fight for us, because frankly we don't need to . We have enough conventional firepower to crush anything the Indian Army can throw at us, so why would we need the Chinese to fight for us. Look at the way Pakistan Army trains, and you will get a good idea of how Pakistan will respond to any Indian Aggression. As the good ole saying goes:

"Fight as you train and train as you fight".

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Calm Down.


No need for that, Pakistan Army is enough



We don't expect the Chinese to come and fight for us, because frankly we don't need to . We have enough conventional firepower to crush anything the Indian Army can throw at us, so why would we need the Chinese to fight for us. Look at the way Pakistan Army trains, and you will get a good idea of how Pakistan will respond to any Indian Aggression. As the good ole saying goes:

"Fight as you train and train as you fight".

Now all that is very high on BQ............BLUSTERY QUOTIENT and sounds nice and dramatic too.
As for Aeronut; he is given to some somewhat juvenile utterances now and then; which is good since that also brings the element of (much-needed) drama to this forum.

BTW; about the Chinese, as memory attests to: why were some 'mayday calls' sent in their direction in 1965 AD and 1971 AD, and then there was Musharrafff's famous flight to Beijing in 1999 AD. Why did all that happen?

 

[Jaanbaz]

Pakistan civilians will always fight along with the Army. It has happened before. 1948 & 1965 is the biggest example. India would have hard time invading large cities like Karachi. I think Indian army will struggle to take down even 50,000 Armed MQM Wing never mind invading all of Pakistan.

We could recruit and send brainwashed Talibans to die for Islam and Pakistan too.

 

[notorious_eagle]

BTW; about the Chinese, as memory attests to: why were some 'mayday calls' sent in their direction in 1965 AD and 1971 AD, and then there was Musharrafff's famous flight to Beijing in 1999 AD. Why did all that happen?

Lets take a step back into the history lane because clearly you have failed to do research in this case.

1965: China and Pakistan's relations were at its infancy. Ayub being the loyal puppy that he was of the US, offered to end relations with the Chinese to please his American Masters. Neither much help was asked for and neither any help was given. Pakistan's Strategic Planners were confident that they themselves could smash India's defences and take Kashmir. Thus, not much thought was given to ask help from the Chinese in the initial stages.

1971: This is the most interesting event the Indians love to bring over. Lets go into a bit more detail and look at this from the Chinese perspective. The Soviet 58th Army was starring the Chinese right in the eye, they were getting ready to blast the Chinese out of the face of the Earth. They had mustered a force of more than 450k troops, 2000 planes and 200 nukes. They were drilling, and drilling hard on the border to get the message across. The PLA could only helplessly watch in awe as how fast the Soviets mobilized and their drills were something the PLA could only dream of imitating. The Chinese intelligence was convinced the Soviets were going to attack, thus PLA retreated their defences back 100 km because they knew if they met the Soviets on the border they would be encircled and annihilated. Now you tell me, whats more scarier? The Soviet 58th Army or the Indian Army marching into Bangladesh?

1999: Pakistan itself failed to acknowledge its presence in Kargil, how possibly could you expect the Chinese to help? The fight was being held on a land where GOP stated that it had no presence. This skirmish was an absolute clusterfu** from the Pakistani side, there is no way the Chinese could have salvaged this.

I hope i answered all of your queries in some detail. I will say it again, the Chinese have on many occasions made it clear that they will not help Pakistan in case of war with troops. But they will help Pakistan with weapons and other supplies. I urge you to go and research the weapons that were transferred to Pakistan in 2002 and 2008 on emergency basis.

 

[The SC]

Who brag about CSD?
If you have a pc and internet connection just google you can see there is no such thing called CSD.
Our commanders only aimed for a speedy mobilisation of 1.3 milliin army and its assets .In sense it was your commanders and leaders are stupid,they simply swallow sensational frenzy reporting of Indian media and spent lot of money for so called CSD myth.
Haha your boasting of middile east.
We gave Human resources to them, from labour to CEOs ,and we also gave
lot of contributions for their development.In return we are buying
Oil from them for more than 150 billion dollar.It is just a good business.We know they will support pakistan against India but that is only through money and weapons .they dont take weapons against us.They also gave you financial support in last 4 wars.But none of that change the outcome of war.And that will remain like that in future.
More funny is your boasting about China.Well we couldnt see your taller than mountain deeper than ocean friend in last 4 wars except weapons supply or just a business.
Wake up friend ,to real world.In this world it is all about money ,it can buy many things even power .A good economy plus S&T in all fields including defence and space you can outmatch rest of nations

How come your generals have just said that they have let go of CSD if there was none?

And for money, as you say it yourself but it works both ways, the Arabs have plenty of it and are working on those fields too.
As for manpower, i think you should see it as a favor to India for the simple reason that the GCC countries have a choice in that matter, they can just call upon other populous arab countries with economical problems and high unemployement rates to fullfil their needs. But they still wanted to show friendship to India and others. If it was just about money, they would have gone for other arabs.