Team USA

[Armstrong]

Nebraska lawmakers vote to abolish death penalty

Nebraska lawmakers gave final approval on Wednesday to a bill abolishing the death penalty with enough votes to override a promised veto from Republican Gov. Pete Ricketts.

The vote was 32 to 15 in Nebraska's unicameral Legislature.

If that vote holds in a veto override, Nebraska would become the first conservative state to repeal the death penalty since North Dakota in 1973.

The Nebraska vote is notable in the national debate over capital punishment because it was bolstered by conservatives who oppose the death penalty for religious reasons and say it is a waste of taxpayer money.

Nebraska hasn't executed a prisoner since 1997, and some lawmakers have argued that constant legal challenges will prevent the state from doing so again.

Republican Gov. Pete Ricketts, a death penalty supporter, has vowed to veto the bill. Ricketts announced last week that the state has bought new lethal injection drugs to resume executions.

Ricketts, who is serving his first year in office, argued in his weekly column Tuesday that the state's inability to carry out executions was a "management problem" that he is committed to fixing.

Maryland was the last state to end capital punishment, in 2013. Three other moderate to liberal states have done so in recent years: New Mexico in 2009, Illinois in 2011, Connecticut in 2012. The death penalty is legal in 32 states, including Nebraska.

Independent Sen. Ernie Chambers of Omaha, who sponsored the Nebraska legislation, has fought for four decades to end capital punishment in the state.

Nebraska lawmakers passed a death-penalty repeal bill once before, in 1979, but it was vetoed by then-Gov. Charles Thone.

Where do you stand on the issue ?

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Where do you stand on the issue ?

Nowhere. I am neither for nor against capital punishment.

 

[Armstrong]

Nowhere. I am neither for nor against capital punishment.

So what do you want the State to 'tickle' death row inmates ?

 

[SvenSvensonov]

So what do you want the State to 'tickle' death row inmates ?

If the state so chooses, then they can. That may constituent cruel and unusual punishment though.

 

[Armstrong]

If the state so chooses, then they can. That may constituent cruel and unusual punishment though.

I was kidding; why so serious ?

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Where do you stand on the issue ?

Here's food for thought though:

By the numbers, the annual cost of the death penalty in the state of California is $137 million compared to the cost of lifetime incarceration of $11.5 million.

Considering The Death Penalty: Your Tax Dollars At Work - Forbes

It's commonly thought that the death penalty is cheaper than life-time incarceration - it doesn't seem to be.

I was kidding; why so serious ?

I'm indifferent.

 

[Armstrong]

Here's food for thought though:

By the numbers, the annual cost of the death penalty in the state of California is $137 million compared to the cost of lifetime incarceration of $11.5 million.

Considering The Death Penalty: Your Tax Dollars At Work - Forbes

It's commonly thought that the death penalty is cheaper than life-time incarceration - it doesn't seem to be.

I know that its more expensive; I remember many hours spent a couple of years ago in school to prepare for a school mock parliamentary debate on the issue !

Funny enough I still can't figure out why its more expensive because if the article you mentioned is correct in pointing out that it takes roughly 8000 hours in appeals for death penalty cases vs 180 hours in life imprisonment cases and that the trials for the former cost more and take longer to resolve; are we suggesting that in case of life imprisonment cases the same amount of due diligence, professional care and a proper dispensation of justice wasn't carried out as in the case of death penalty. That somehow being relatively lax when preparing a case, when arguing it, hearing appeals against a verdict and so on and so forth is acceptable when it comes to life imprisonment cases because after all its not as if the guy dies in the end....you just take away a decade or more out of his life.

I'm indifferent.

As Jefferson said 'the price of liberty is eternal vigilance' - So be more interested in what the Government is legislating !

 

[SvenSvensonov]

As Jefferson said 'the price of liberty is eternal vigilance' - So be more interest in what the Government is legislating !

I am interested, but I am not interested in blankets. All things in life are grey, not black and white.

Let's take a look at some common scenarios in the US:

1. Do I support the death penalty? Yes and no, it's purely conditional on the individual case.
2. Do I believe religion has worth in modern society? Yes and no, some teachings are good advice, others are irrelevant.
3. Do I support military actions overseas? Yes and no, sometimes "evil" can't be left unrewarded. Sometimes it's best to stay home.
4. Do I support gay marriage? Yes and no. My only brother is gay, so I'm a more biased here, but as with any marriage my support is conditional on their genuine care for each other. Marrying for tax benefits will earn your my ire.
5. Do I love my wife? Yes. I'm also not stupid, somethings need a solid stance.

In all things I take a case-by-case stance and prefer to analyze the situation and its contributing factors before making a judgement. I don't like black and white.

I'm interested in legislation, but not in absolutes.

Funny enough I still can't figure out why its more expensive because if the article you mentioned is correct in pointing out that it takes roughly 8000 hours in appeals for death penalty cases vs 180 hours in life imprisonment cases and that the trials for the former cost more and take longer to resolve;

You kind of answered your own question. Appeals, the cost of expensive drugs (in gas and lethal injection), more appeals, litigation from the family of the condemn who believe their loved one was wrongly convicted and sentenced, another appeal, preparation for the condemnation, another appeal, the cost of lawyers, the cost of housing and feeding the person, yet another appeal, cell maintenance costs and facility upkeep, legal actions against the drug maker for not disclosing the dangerous or effects of their drug, another appeal, litigation from human rights activist who say the drug are cruel and unusual, clerical services for the condemned, their family and the individual carrying out the sentence - psychological sessions too as executing someone can have a lasting impact on their psyche. Oh, and another appeal.

It all adds up to a, and this is a technical term, "butt load of money." Modern capital punishment methods are costly.

 

[Transhumanist]

I am interested, but I am not interested in blankets. All things in life are grey, not black and white.

Let's take a look at some common scenarios in the US:

1. Do I support the death penalty? Yes and no, it's purely conditional on the individual case.
2. Do I believe religion has worth in modern society? Yes and no, some teachings are good advice, others are irrelevant.
3. Do I support military actions overseas? Yes and no, sometimes "evil" can't be left unrewarded. Sometimes it's best to stay home.
4. Do I support gay marriage? Yes and no. My only brother is gay, so I'm a more biased here, but as with any marriage my support is conditional on their genuine care for each other. Marrying for tax benefits will earn your my ire.
5. Do I love my wife? Yes. I'm also not stupid, somethings need a solid stance.

In all things I take a case-by-case stance and prefer to analyze the situation and its contributing factors before making a judgement. I don't like black and white.

I'm interested in legislation, but not in absolutes.



You kind of answered your own question. Appeals, the cost of expensive drugs (in gas and lethal injection), more appeals, litigation from the family of the condemn who believe their loved one was wrongly convicted and sentenced, another appeal, preparation for the condemnation, another appeal, the cost of lawyers, the cost of housing and feeding the person, yet another appeal, cell maintenance costs and facility upkeep, legal actions against the drug maker for not disclosing the dangerous or effects of their drug, another appeal, litigation from human rights activist who say the drug are cruel and unusual, clerical services for the condemned, their family and the individual carrying out the sentence - psychological sessions too as executing someone can have a lasting impact on their psyche. Oh, and another appeal.

It all adds up to a, and this is a technical term, "butt load of money." Modern capital punishment methods are costly.

Life in imprisonment or rehabilitation?

Why Norway's prison system is so successful - Business Insider

A modern Norwegian prison:

Inside the World's Most Humane Prison - Photo Essays - TIME

Norway places an emphasis on rehabilitation, and yet, some people such as Anders Breivik test our good nature. He will never see the outside of Halden Prison again (as a free man).

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Life in imprisonment or rehabilitation?

Both should be an option. Rehabilitate those you can, imprison those you can, execute those too extreme in their behaviors if needed. Ideally rehabilitation would be the option of choice for everyone, no matter their crimes, but as you rightfully pointed out, some people test our goodness too much. This is why we need to examine cases and not just fit crimes to a punishment. Everything is different and should be treated as such.

Kumla Prison (Sweden):

Versus one is California (I don't know which):

Norway and Sweden have more successful criminal justice systems due to their rehab programs and more humane treatment of prisoners. They aren't a commodity for us, they are people and are treated as such.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

So what do you want the State to 'tickle' death row inmates ?

That's just weird.

 

[A1Kaid]

Don't know anybody in California. Most people here seem to be from the ~Northeast area of the US.

So I was at my local wholesale club and the guy in front of me waved his iPhone6 at the credit card swiper machine and that was that...payment all done. Now I've seen this before with Android phones (and on both using the 3D barcode thing) but this was the first I saw ApplePay being used. I have an iPhone6 myself so maybe I'll have to sign up.

Using your SmartPhone to pay: Apple Pay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

View attachment 211381

Places that support Apple Pay:
Apple - Apple Pay

I have been wanting to try Apple Pay but haven't seen stores with the Apple Pay device reader either that or the damn cashiers don't know what Apple Pay is and become confused.

One of the best fast-casual restaurants in the US. Only in the US.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I have been wanting to try Apple Pay but haven't seen stores with the Apple Pay device reader either that or the damn cashiers don't know what Apple Pay is and become confused.

One of the best fast-casual restaurants in the US. Only in the US.

It certainly isn't being advertised. Many card swipers have support for RFID credit cards. I believe many of these will also work with ApplePay. I haven't hooked mine up yet.

Hmm...never heard of Noodles...and it seems I live near 2 of them. Will check it out.

 

[Armstrong]

I am interested, but I am not interested in blankets. All things in life are grey, not black and white.

Let's take a look at some common scenarios in the US:

1. Do I support the death penalty? Yes and no, it's purely conditional on the individual case.
2. Do I believe religion has worth in modern society? Yes and no, some teachings are good advice, others are irrelevant.
3. Do I support military actions overseas? Yes and no, sometimes "evil" can't be left unrewarded. Sometimes it's best to stay home.
4. Do I support gay marriage? Yes and no. My only brother is gay, so I'm a more biased here, but as with any marriage my support is conditional on their genuine care for each other. Marrying for tax benefits will earn your my ire.
5. Do I love my wife? Yes. I'm also not stupid, somethings need a solid stance.

In all things I take a case-by-case stance and prefer to analyze the situation and its contributing factors before making a judgement. I don't like black and white.

I'm interested in legislation, but not in absolutes.

It goes without saying that I wasn't talking about absolutes !

Fairness is the cornerstone of Justice and there can be no fairness in treating every case or issue by considering it from a singular perspective.

But about point (4) Your 'only brother' - I guess @Nihonjin1051 we should've seen this coming....we're not even considered brothers by @SvenSvensonov !

@Transhumanist - Thats it....I am not trusting you Scandinavians again !

If I had made a Dane as my Brother....he'd still call me his brother !

I think Danes are better than Swedes and Norwegians !

You kind of answered your own question. Appeals, the cost of expensive drugs (in gas and lethal injection), more appeals, litigation from the family of the condemn who believe their loved one was wrongly convicted and sentenced, another appeal, preparation for the condemnation, another appeal, the cost of lawyers, the cost of housing and feeding the person, yet another appeal, cell maintenance costs and facility upkeep, legal actions against the drug maker for not disclosing the dangerous or effects of their drug, another appeal, litigation from human rights activist who say the drug are cruel and unusual, clerical services for the condemned, their family and the individual carrying out the sentence - psychological sessions too as executing someone can have a lasting impact on their psyche. Oh, and another appeal.

It all adds up to a, and this is a technical term, "butt load of money." Modern capital punishment methods are costly.

Did I ? My confusion stemmed from the fact that if providing a greater degree of justice to a death row inmate is what the cost difference is all about (appeals and what not) are we suggesting that a life imprisonment inmate gets a relatively (or considerably if the costs are the barometer for anything) less just and fair judicial examination ?

 

[Transhumanist]

are we suggesting that a life imprisonment inmate gets a relatively (or considerably if the costs are the barometer for anything) less just and fair judicial examination ?

I'd say no, if only because people tend to be more ready to accept their new lives than to accept their's ending. It's not that the judicial examination of life imprisonment is any less rigorous, its that the prisoners themselves choose not to peruse legal recourse as much as they are inclined to do so when condemned.

Also, considering human rights groups, the state and the families of the condemned all have their say in the matter as well, the number of legal examinations is always going to be larger for the death penalty. At some point a person becomes comfortable with their prison life and stops trying to seek a way out - institutionalized we call it. People don't tend to make peace with their impending death until it happens.

My perspective on the matter, and perhaps someone else can answer better, but I'd say that it's not that the judicial system is less fair in its examination and more that the prisoner, their family and the state are more inclined to accept life imprisonment than they are a death penalty.

But about point (4) Your 'only brother' - I guess @Nihonjin1051 we should've seen this coming....we're not even considered brothers by @SvenSvensonov !

Boy, you've really got to read up on the history of Denmark. Sure, they'll be your brother, for a time, then they'll invade your home, install themselves as its leader and make you form a union with them that sees your influence dwindle into the point of nothingness.

I think Danes are better than Swedes and Norwegians !