Tamil chat

[MarkovChain]

@Rajaraja Chola @Maravan @MarkovChain

I have a question. To what extent, does caste play a role in politics?

It's a tricky situation. In one end, we want a growth for our country which is fully inclusive of everyone - on the other, the very idea of segregation on such basis leads to higher levels of inefficiency and slower growth.

Unfortunately, our society between 1947 and 1991 was built in a way where you had to know someone to get work done - you could not have relied on efficiency of execution, and if you did - you would have suffered big time. Welfare systems weren't actually reaching the intended people and there were so many intermediaries who took it for a ride. The downtrodden people looked at politicians who they knew (and who belonged to the same caste) as a source of support - and politicians capitalized on it by offering them short term benefits at the expense of real development.

Economic development will get rid of the caste based politics - it's the natural course of evolution. You will see caste based politics is prevalent mostly in areas where people are extremely poor like UP or Bihar. As our government becomes efficient and as private sector (which doesn't distinguish caste based talent but rather hires on merit) continues to grow - caste based politics will die a slow but certain death. Systems will then become the source of trust rather than people.

 

[Chronos]

It's a tricky situation. In one end, we want a growth for our country which is fully inclusive of everyone - on the other, the very idea of segregation on such basis leads to higher levels of inefficiency and slower growth.

Unfortunately, our society between 1947 and 1991 was built in a way where you had to know someone to get work done - you could not have relied on efficiency of execution, and if you did - you would have suffered big time. Welfare systems weren't actually reaching the intended people and there were so many intermediaries who took it for a ride. The downtrodden people looked at politicians who they knew (and who belonged to the same caste) as a source of support - and politicians capitalized on it by offering them short term benefits at the expense of real development.

Economic development will get rid of the caste based politics - it's the natural course of evolution. You will see caste based politics is prevalent mostly in areas where people are extremely poor like UP or Bihar. As our government becomes efficient and as private sector (which doesn't distinguish caste based talent but rather hires on merit) continues to grow - caste based politics will die a slow but certain death. Systems will then become the source of trust rather than people.

Dammit, I mean to ask, Tamil Nadu politics. Because recently, I read an article by a Dalit political writer.

He said, the current caste dynamics is that the upper crust of Dalit society has grown indifferent to their more impoverished compatriots. It is the middle and other backward castes and not the upper castes who frequently clash with their lower caste hindus.

It seems to me, that the virulent Anti-Brahmanism wasn't the solution. It was to get rid of the mentality that by birth you are ensured that you are superior to another Human being.

@MarkovChain you have to watch out for some of the Indians as well as the Pakistanis on this forum. Even though they share different religions, their outlook sometimes converge

 

[MarkovChain]

Dammit, I mean to ask, Tamil Nadu politics. Because recently, I read an article by a Dalit political writer.

He said, the current caste dynamics is that the upper crust of Dalit society has grown indifferent to their more impoverished compatriots. It is the middle and other backward castes and not the upper castes who frequently clash with their lower caste hindus.

It seems to me, that the virulent Anti-Brahmanism wasn't the solution. It was to get rid of the mentality that by birth you are ensured that you are superior to another Human being.

Oops

Yes - these views have been prevalent among the Dalits for a decade now in TN. I would give two reasons:
1) Dalits haven't benefited at all - they are still leading a considerably impoverished life. They've come to realize anti-Brahminism is BS and more a case of opportunism at their expense.
2) There are more of these "middle class" politicians in power than there are Brahmins right now compared to 50 years back - and as always, people in power are responsible

 

[Chronos]

Oops

Yes - these views have been prevalent among the Dalits for a decade now in TN. I would give two reasons:
1) Dalits haven't benefited at all - they are still leading a considerably impoverished life. They've come to realize anti-Brahminism is BS and more a case of opportunism at their expense.
2) There are more of these "middle class" politicians in power than there are Brahmins right now compared to 50 years back - and as always, people in power are responsible

Are castes like Gounders, Thevars considered Middle or upper caste

I also think effort made socially as well as economic development can also hasten the decline of this sort of thinking.

 

[MarkovChain]

Are castes like Gounders, Thevars considered Middle or upper caste

I have no idea - the whole thing is complex beyond human comprehension capacity. I don't understand why caste is completely removed from everything though. Politicians seem to enjoy their vote bank safety.

 

[Chronos]

I have no idea - the whole thing is complex beyond human comprehension capacity. I don't understand why caste is completely removed from everything though. Politicians seem to enjoy their vote bank safety.

well I am sounding a bit hypocritical, since my my surname and my username contains the caste name 'Nair' from Kerala.

@MarkovChain Nice to have another rational Indian on board. Well met

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

@Rajaraja Chola @Maravan @MarkovChain

I have a question. To what extent, does caste play a role in politics?

Its mixed. Not entirely ruled in or out. Caste do not play a important part in urban centres of Tamil Nadu.
But Rural Politics are interwined in a way, that you can understand only if you go and live out there. People in rural areas will support candidates, who are supportive of them, irrespective of castes. In my own village in madurai, my relation, old politician, helped a new gen win a panchayat polls, though he is from other caste, other party. Reason is simple, the young gun have many contacts, and do whateva the villages ask of him .

However if a situation arises like, intercaste marriages, some inter community problems and a problem arises out of that, then caste equation comes into play.
Moreover in rural areas, an MLA will be having persons of contacts in every village in his constituency . Even I found it hard to believe, but they do have. They are easily approachable through those persons than urban countarparts.
As I say, its complex.

Are castes like Gounders, Thevars considered Middle or upper caste

I also think effort made socially as well as economic development can also hasten the decline of this sort of thinking.

Those castes are officially backward castes in TN govt website. But they hold enoromous political heavyweight.
Especially thevars.. They never give their gal to another caste..

 

[Maravan]

@Rajaraja Chola @Maravan @MarkovChain

I have a question. To what extent, does caste play a role in politics?

Till now, in TN seats are getting allocated based on candidates castes too, almost for every constituency except the few. In every party caste is considered, Vaiko always prefered sivakasi/virdhunagar constituency not bcoz of his supporters but due to the majority of naidu caste people.

Even in colleges of southern districts, when there is a problem between student groups, it is/was getting approached thru the eyes of caste, thats worse.

Oru time la naanum meesaiya murukki kittu thaan thirinchaen, apparam veliya poyi ulagatha paaka aarambicha peragu enakkae naan panrathu kirukku thanama thonuchu, apparam vittutaen. kirukuthanatha vittutaen,murukku meesaiya vida mudiyala,reason comedy aanathu... Meesaiya remove pannirukum pothu, bus la sanda pottanga 2paeru, pudichu satham pottaen, thambi nee chinna paiyan chumma iru pa nu sollitaanuga. Apparam vachaen murukku meesaiya, aduthu bus la sanda potta rendu paeru automatica enkitta problem solve panna vanthaanuga, appa thaan meesai ku ulla gethu purinjathu... apparam ippa IT company layum meesaiya maintain panraen...

 

[abjktu]

Apparam vachaen murukku meesaiya, aduthu bus la sanda potta rendu paeru automatica enkitta problem solve panna vanthaanuga, appa thaan meesai ku ulla gethu purinjathu...

Pothum pa..idukku mele yaaraalum thaanga mudiyala..Neenga Vijayakanth,sarath Kumar padam niraya parpeengala??..parthu parthu romba kettu pochu nu ninaikiren...

 

[Maravan]

Pothum pa..idukku mele yaaraalum thaanga mudiyala..Neenga Vijayakanth,sarath Kumar padam niraya parpeengala??..parthu parthu romba kettu pochu nu ninaikiren...

Ok... public... public...

 

[MarkovChain]

@Maravan

Unga signature oda order romba pidichurukku - athu enakkum poruthama erukkum

 

[Chronos]

@Maravan

Unga signature oda order romba pidichurukku - athu enakkum poruthama erukkum

Permanently staying in U.S. or coming back to India at some point.

 

[MarkovChain]

Permanently staying in U.S. or coming back to India at some point.

Coming back of course - here on a company rotation for a couple of years. What about you?

 

[Chronos]

Coming back of course - here on a company rotation for a couple of years. What about you?

I am a citizen of Mordor now.

I serve Lord Sauron (hope you get the reference)

 

[MarkovChain]

I am a citizen of Mordor now.

I serve Lord Sauron (hope you get the reference)

LOL, nice. What do you do there?

Talking of LOTR, they must do better in the next Hobbit movie. The previous one ended with the dragon putting mokka for 30minutes towards the end. Totally messed up.