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Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

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1.russian FGFA prototypes are already in last leg of fininshing there flight testings and sonn wepons intigration phase will commence and the first FGFA are sheduled to be in RSAF by 2018 while 2020 for IAF

2.no russian su-35s are coming for PAF as PAF is in no position to buy them off the shelf let alone pay for there maintainence and spares

as for F-35 well USA has already made a formal offer to sell F-35 to india and is already in talks for that along with o wants them for its IAC-2 EMALS, AAG and E2D/E for indian navy and indian navy also

have some patience :cheers:


OK TT sir whatever you say is right im wrong happy now .... cheers mate :D

So you being an Indian Know about Pakistan better than Pakistanis :P ??
LOL !!
And Mind your Own Business regarding how we will manage 35 or Purchase 35.
Instead you should be doing *Ram Ram* after hearing this terrible news about Su-35s Sale to Pakistan.:)
 
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hi all,

i just spoke to an analyst about this news and i was told that if such development are true then the su-35 wont be for the airforce but for the air naval arm. the su35 has a lot of range so it can stay and loiter in the skies for long periods of time.
 
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I think one point Indian friends here must understand that if Russia wants hard cash (which is True BTW), forces opposing Russia (US and Europe) would like to stop that. This can be done in number of ways. By providing better mil tech to India than the Russia (and I think it is already happening. P-8I, C-17, Apache etc.). This way they will succeed in preventing Delhi to sign any further larger defense deal with Moscow. On the other hand, if Russia sells anything to Pakistan the order will be much smaller and would give little revenue of Russia. Plus the US can even put pressure on Pakistan not to buy Russian stuff. The US may offer PAF some more F-16s to prevent any such deal.But Pakistan, on the other hand, has its own requirements in which shifting balance of maritime aviation in Arabian Sea is an emerging challenge due to inclusion of aircraft carriers in Indian Navy. So, inevitably for Pakistan it would be prudent to go for a twin engine fighter with longer range for this specific need (PAF or PN; who would use them is immaterial at this point). So impetus for both Pakistan and Russia to enhance cooperation is there. Pakistan cannot deter challenge posed by Indian carriers by inducting its own carrier so naturally second best choice is to increase the number of options to neutralize this threat. Su-35 or any other navalized flanker would fit into this role. So, I would not say that SU-35 just has no chance in PAF instead to me the decision will be based on enemy's capabilities and challenge posed and by looking at the current and future challenges, SU-35 is certainly among the best choices Pakistan has at the moment along with Chinese option. Indian factor would not matter much in this regard.
 
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Russians might agree to sell Su-35 as they are also cash strapped. Question is not would they sell or not. They are willing to sale. Question is how and on what terms they would sale, as PAF would be asking for transfer of technology for those parts which are consumed more for servicing and keeping that giant operational at all time. PAF won't keep Su's like India does, i.e 50% fleet ground all the time. Only if Russia agrees to give help for reducing costs to fly it only then PAF would sit in it. Can't afford any kind of risk like in the case of F-16. These elephants whatever type need constant mother feed who ever adopts them. My personal guess is PAF would go for 36-40 with contracts of overhauling and spare parts manufacturing whatever type they go for.
For navel air Arm these numbers r more than enough plus it will give PAF freedom to pay more attention on IAF
 
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Analysts Skeptical Over Pakistan-Russia Su-35 Negotiations

ISLAMABAD — Analysts are generally skeptical at present of reports Pakistan and Russia are engaged in negotiations for the delivery of a number of Su-35 Flanker E fighter aircraft, though there is a potential requirement for such a heavy fighter.

The reports, first published in Russian media, cited Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov as saying both sides were negotiating for the delivery of an unspecified number of Su-35 jets alongside the Mi-35M "Hind E" helicopter gunships that have recently been agreed upon.

However, no word on any such negotiations was received from the Ministry of Defence Production in Pakistan when asked for comment on the issue. The agency also handles acquisition.

Experts are generally skeptical of any Su-35 being acquired by Pakistan.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said he "would be most surprised if there were to be any arrangement for provision of Su-35s."

"The Indians would be extremely upset, to the point of a major diplomatic rift," Cloughley said.

Though India is actively seeking to diversify its source of equipment from reliance on Russia, and the latter is seeking a new customer that includes limited defense sales to Pakistan, the Indo-Russian relationship is still very strong as evidenced by the co-development of the next generation PAK-FA stealth aircraft.

Analyst, author and former Pakistani Air Force pilot Kaiser Tufail is also unconvinced at present that negotiations for the Su-35 are actually underway.

"To me it seems more like an offer by the Russians, more than anything else," he said.

Many analysts have considered the current Pakistani plan to carry on investing in the JF-17 Thunder program, and acquire further new or surplus F-16s if possible, to be the optimal way of modernizing its air power as well as reducing combat types. A role for such a heavy fighter as the Su-35 has not generally been envisioned.

However, Tufail says there is a possible need for something in this class on two accounts: diversification and to support naval operations.

The Su-35 "being a twin-engined aircraft with vast range (and endurance), it would help us to have a significant and potent presence in the Arabian Sea, something that the puny, aging Mirage squadron is ill-suited for (as is the JF-17 from the range point of view)," he said. "Given the changing geo-politics and the Chinese investment whose trade terminus is Gwadar, there is definitely going to be a need for a long-range fighter. So essentially, I see it as a guarantor of maritime security as far as the airspace is concerned."

Pakistan has never operated a twin-engine fighter aircraft, but Tufail says this has been a shortcoming.

"This has been a yawning gap in [the air force's] capabilities. These fighters would also allow unhindered patrolling by the naval [long range maritime patrol aircraft], as well as providing top cover to our fleet at sea," he said.

He does not see this as a departure from the established defense posture, but recognition of an existing shortcoming.

"All of this may sound like a sudden switch from continental strategy to a maritime one, but it is high time that we paid serious attention to this aspect in the fast changing geopolitical scenario."

Pakistan's air power over the Arabian Sea already received a boost this month when No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron based in Karachi was re-equipped September 6 with the JF-17 Block II after surrendering its Chengdu F-7P fighters.

Speaking at the time, Tufail said this was overdue: "The re-equipment of [No. 2 'Minhas' Squadron] was due as they had the oldest lot of F-7s. The JF-17 was the obvious replacement."

However, he did not believe it would take over the anti-shipping strike role from the Mirage 5, which he flew during his air force career, even though the JF-17 can carry the C-802A/CSS-N-8 Saccade or the supersonic CM-400AKG.

"This, however, does not necessarily imply that it will immediately take over the maritime attack role. The Mirage-5PA2/3 is still a capable aircraft, though long in the tooth by now. Most likely, the replacement of these Mirages would have a maritime role, so it could be a couple of years before we see a newer capability," he said.

Whether that replacement is the Su-35, however, remains to be seen.

Analysts Skeptical Over Pakistan-Russia Su-35 Negotiations

A Pakistan Pilot didn't even know that PAF operated twin Engine aircraft.... A5 single engine pe urate thy kya

Or Kya yeh Constitution me lika hai ya Quaid E Azam k 14 points me k Pakistan twin engine jet ni le skta???
 
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why don't Pakistan just go for the J-11s ?
 
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Pakistan has been evaluating the SU-27 for a long time and SU-35 is just an evolution of the same...there is badge in PAF for completing 1000 hours in SU-27 borrowed from a friendly air-force..there is a pool of Pakistani pilots trained to fly the SU-27...Pakistan, Chia and Russia are not faced with the new realm geo-economic importance and SU27/35 is pretty much a standard of all SCO countries. So Pakistan will not be left behind.
 
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I think one point Indian friends here must understand that if Russia wants hard cash (which is True BTW), forces opposing Russia (US and Europe) would like to stop that. This can be done in number of ways. By providing better mil tech to India than the Russia (and I think it is already happening. P-8I, C-17, Apache etc.). This way they will succeed in preventing Delhi to sign any further larger defense deal with Moscow. On the other hand, if Russia sells anything to Pakistan the order will be much smaller and would give little revenue of Russia. Plus the US can even put pressure on Pakistan not to buy Russian stuff. The US may offer PAF some more F-16s to prevent any such deal.But Pakistan, on the other hand, has its own requirements in which shifting balance of maritime aviation in Arabian Sea is an emerging challenge due to inclusion of aircraft carriers in Indian Navy. So, inevitably for Pakistan it would be prudent to go for a twin engine fighter with longer range for this specific need (PAF or PN; who would use them is immaterial at this point). So impetus for both Pakistan and Russia to enhance cooperation is there. Pakistan cannot deter challenge posed by Indian carriers by inducting its own carrier so naturally second best choice is to increase the number of options to neutralize this threat. Su-35 or any other navalized flanker would fit into this role. So, I would not say that SU-35 just has no chance in PAF instead to me the decision will be based on enemy's capabilities and challenge posed and by looking at the current and future challenges, SU-35 is certainly among the best choices Pakistan has at the moment along with Chinese option. Indian factor would not matter much in this regard.

Why not me? let me speculate as well;

I thinks, PAF wants to broke the news of their interest in SU35 only after India's Rafael deal signs up at any point of time this year in order to neutralize the psychological pressure on them post that period and absolutely not before it for sure.

The number of units in negotiation are not more than one Squadron for sure even less of it, which enable Russia to soothen the probable strong objection of India's by stating that this sale is not a strategic outbalancing the equilibrium in SAsia, only a defensive in nature.
 
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I dont think this thread should remain open. The substance of this thread is going off topic more than often.
 
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Bcz more than the Modern Aircraft we actually want a split between India & Russia:D
bada zabardast game chal raha hai, India's endgame is self sufficiency in defence, for which they have 100s of billions of dollars to spend, and both the US and Russia want a slice of that.
 
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Pakistanis AND Indians LETS calm down.

LETS SEE WHAT UNFOLDS with the SU35 rumours.

I am pleasantly surprised at HOW MUCH EXCITMENT the Pakistanis have over a Flanker purchase

For decade we watch you Pakistanis tell us HOW CRAP THE RUSSIAN fighters are

Very interesting AND TELLING I think,

The Flankers will cost alot more than what you guys have paid for a fighter in your history
They will cost you twice the amount to service and fly of any current PAF fighter
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But if by some miracle this actually happens YOU are acquiring a beast of a fighter and the Indians know as they swear by their MKI
You are so desperate in this this thread, its unreal
 
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Russia's Su-35 is vastly more sophisticated version than J-11. You know that indeed.
yup, and China will only get the stripped down export variant, if/when they do .. that news has been flying around forever.

@Chinese-Dragon got an update on it ?
 
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