Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[Muhammad Omar]

Chinese J 20 and J 31 are still decade we have to wait even J 10 which we ordered is almost took decade to operate and when it is operation we took stupid decision

What gurantees we have what we did to J 10 we dont do J 20 when it is available

PAF is at mercy of IAF wih limited range of SAMs it operates is a headache in itself

Most of our F 16 are 3 decades old

Only 24 new F 16 and old 50 f 16 along with 70 odd Jf 17 all are multi role single engine jets

Cant fight massive SU 30 fleet along with Rafale mirages mig 29k

All these jets are twin engine and can carry double pay load double the speed and range

Today our skies have threat from massive IAF and now IN also uses Mig 29k jets

Our limited thinking will cost us air war which means we loose land and naval war

When india issued MRCA tender Paf said we wait until what india chooses than we react

But still PAF mentality is blocked by limitations

Paf needs to fill gap of twin engine jet

Countriez like indonesia dont have maintanance issue of SU 30

Being a professional force PAF should not think negatively on maintanance look positive how these flankers give you edge in war

If we need to bomb new dehli PAF with current firce cant do it

If syria can operate mig 31 which is also need hell of maintanance what prob paf had

I don't think Chinese will Ever Export J-20 to any Country... They Most Probably only give J-31... J-20 is out of question....

 

[Super Falcon]

I don't think Chinese will Ever Export J-20 to any Country... They Most Probably only give J-31... J-20 is out of question....

But it is 10 years paf has to wait until we keep our selves as a sitting ducks and we give justification maintanance of SU 35

If we think maintanance than buy ww2 mustang fighter it takes even lower level of maintanance than our F 16

 

[Muhammad Omar]

But it is 10 years paf has to wait until we keep our selves as a sitting ducks and we give justification maintanance of SU 35

If we think maintanance than buy ww2 mustang fighter it takes even lower level of maintanance than our F 16

And till 10 years our 50 F-16 will be 4 decades old... and need to be replaced too....

 

[Imran Khan]

common lets move to fifth gen now its not the time to waste on 4.5 and money

 

[Muhammad Omar]

common lets move to fifth gen now its not the time to waste on 4.5 and money

sir g 5th gen me abhi poooray 10 saal pare hain J-31 k abhi kuch hi prototype aai hain...

Plus Pakistan kitne 5th Genration le le ga? 70 80 ??

baki ka kya? Srf JF-17??

 

[Goenitz]

Nonsense, it has some of the highest availability rates of any twin engined fighter.

ohh man .. forgot to put question mark... it was a question..

compared to which platform? It is certainly a maintenance heavy fighter compared to a light craft, but i would think it would be on par with any other form the same class.

to su 35.. i cna say that (Pakistan) 70s miraj have been overhauled 3 times but f-16 not once (decade older tech though).. so as dassault must have improved but still, is this frech made fighter is durable/reliable/cost friendly (post-purchase) ?

common lets move to fifth gen now its not the time to waste on 4.5 and money

until technology is industrial ready, don't buy or w'd end up like f-35 program.

 

[araz]

Well three things immediately come to mind.

1) SU30 vs SU35 - Maintenance wise. Still the same? No changes in the way it was built?

2) IF PAF buys it, it won't be the standard one being offered. There will be a degree of customization.

3) What kind of ToT would we get. Or would it be limited to MRO facilities only?

The AL117 is apparently a much improved engine with more MTBO, FADEC and easier maintenance. However I still agree that it is a bridge too far for the PAF.
CUSTOMIZATION requires work and the red bear at the moment will be unable to fork out millions to customize it to PAFs demands. The additional aspect of this is armaments which PAF will want to use. I dont think the russians will be happy for us to use SD10A /B and PL series.
As to TOT forget it. You wont be able to absorb it as the plane is very complex and it will be too expensive . Plus no one in their right mind will give you TOT when your maximum requirements are not more than 2 squadrons at best. You wont be able to justify having J31 after these so PAF will wait for J31s/equivalent.

 

[Tipu7]

S300 and HQ-9 (chinese copy of S300) is not a good for Indo-Pak conditions. It was design for destroying the U.S long range, stealth, strandoff attack planes. Both the systems are very expensive and even Indian army and IAF is not interested in them. For IAF and Indian army BARAK-ng(land version)and akash is better option.

@Side-Winder

 

[al_asad_al_mulk]

There is a pakistani member named zarwan who claims the opposite with reference to his so called SOURCE.


JF-17 in the present state is not close to Rafale and why do you need long range load carrying bird if for the offensive attack against IAF and SAM network in India you need numbers also.

S300 and HQ-9 (chinese copy of S300) is not a good for Indo-Pak conditions. It was design for destroying the U.S long range, stealth, strandoff attack planes. Both the systems are very expensive and even Indian army and IAF is not interested in them. For IAF and Indian army BARAK-ng(land version)and akash is better option. For PAF Spada 2000 is a good SAM but they need that in more quantity linked with c4 network

everybody have right to express what he thinks but reality is that Pakistan does not enjoy good relations with Russia even Pakistan is hesitant to buy helos but it is Russia who provide helos what you can said soft loans or payment after deliveries in installments in years to make India worry / jealous. If Pakistan opted for above type of jet Pakistan would go for Chinese remake of Russian.

 

[airmarshal]

Su-35 reports came from Russian sources not Pakistan. If Pakistan really wanted it the sources reporting the news would have been Pakistani.

PAF does not need long range strike and air superiority fighter. The better choice to fill that gap would be a Chinese platform.

However, if we have enough budget, Eurofighter would not be such a bad option.

 

[knight11]

Chinese J 20 and J 31 are still decade we have to wait even J 10 which we ordered is almost took decade to operate and when it is operation we took stupid decision

What gurantees we have what we did to J 10 we dont do J 20 when it is available

PAF is at mercy of IAF wih limited range of SAMs it operates is a headache in itself

Most of our F 16 are 3 decades old

Only 24 new F 16 and old 50 f 16 along with 70 odd Jf 17 all are multi role single engine jets

Cant fight massive SU 30 fleet along with Rafale mirages mig 29k

All these jets are twin engine and can carry double pay load double the speed and range

Today our skies have threat from massive IAF and now IN also uses Mig 29k jets

Our limited thinking will cost us air war which means we loose land and naval war

When india issued MRCA tender Paf said we wait until what india chooses than we react

But still PAF mentality is blocked by limitations

Paf needs to fill gap of twin engine jet

Countriez like indonesia dont have maintanance issue of SU 30

Being a professional force PAF should not think negatively on maintanance look positive how these flankers give you edge in war

If we need to bomb new dehli PAF with current firce cant do it

If syria can operate mig 31 which is also need hell of maintanance what prob paf had

My take is F-15E if it is available if you want to counter Su30 MKI whose upgradation to Super Sukhoi standandard will started from 2017 onwards which will nullify Su35 advantage. Actually I am wondering why it is not in PAF wishlist after decades of experience with F-16. Advantage of acquiring F-15 is the right approach with common weapon with F-16 and Paf experience with F-16. Pakistan had been the natural ally with the USA and USA can provide soft loans or the second hand upgraded F-15

 

[Side-Winder]

@Side-Winder

Says someone with 254 posts.
Well if that has to be taken into account, what a PDF member says, then:
Indian SAM and Missile Defence Capability
http://fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/s-300pmu.htm
Ballistic Missile Defence for India - Bharat Rakshak:Indian Air Force
There is a very potent air defence system across the border. Probably more lethal than we think it is.

btw the logic of the poster is flawed.

 

[knight11]

everybody have right to express what he thinks but reality is that Pakistan does not enjoy good relations with Russia even Pakistan is hesitant to buy helos but it is Russia who provide helos what you can said soft loans or payment after deliveries in installments in years to make India worry / jealous. If Pakistan opted for above type of jet Pakistan would go for Chinese remake of Russian.

In the modern world no one is friend or enemy its all business. Russia can sell any body its weapon if there is a profit. Which Chinese remake of Russia are you referring by the way.

 

[al_asad_al_mulk]

In the modern world no one is friend or enemy its all business. Russia can sell any body its weapon if there is a profit. Which Chinese remake of Russia are you referring by the way.

Many available probably J-11

 

[knight11]

Says someone with 254 posts.
Well if that has to be taken into account, what a PDF member says, then:
Indian SAM and Missile Defence Capability
There is a very potent air defence system across the border. Probably more lethal than we think it is.

btw the logic of the poster is flawed.

Hello Sir my friend didn't posted all my quotes but S300 is not in Indian arsenal and I don't think any need for the system like S300 or S400 nor the Indians are interested otherwise they could have joined in the joint development. I don't have much hope with Akash Missile development also because the of the future threats like smart munition and low signature cruise missile makes the system like spyder, maitri and Barak missile the right choise. Can you explain why you think that my logic is flawed