Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[Imran Khan]

Not saying anything, this was published in Sputnik, and it sounded very balanced, that's why I posted it.

Secondly, Russian hardware has reliability issues and are maintenance intensive, to what extent, this is has been improved upon, I don't know.

i wish we have flankers so we can say we have east west up down all fighters russia china france USA

 

[Indus Falcon]

We need su-35 in a good figure but we don't need jh7B

Can you tell me the price difference between the two?

 

[Imran Khan]

Imran Khan,

We don't need a lot of them---3 sqdrn's of SU35 or J11D's and 3 sqdrn's of JH7B's-----air to surface Babur cruise missiles---LR SA missiles and then let us see where the threats comes from---.

sir jee ab ye JH7 ka panga ap ne to is month sary fighter PAF main daalny ka mission bana liya hai ?D

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Despite long standing ties with India, Russia may sell Su-35 Flanker-E fighter to Pakistan
Posted on: 09:32 AM IST Sep 23, 2015


In what would potentially be the largest defence deal between the two countries, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is in talks with Russia to buy Su-35 'Flanker-E' fighter aircraft, say IHF Janes reports.

A senior Pakistani government official shared the information while responding to Russian media reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for an unspecified number of Su-35s, which follow a recent agreement to provide Mi-35M 'Hind E' attack helicopters to Islamabad.

Though no decision has been made yet and no terms of the deal have been disclosed, discussions between the two countries shows Russia's willingness to sell advanced hardware to Pakistan despite Moscow's longstanding ties with India.

Though no decision has been made yet and no terms of the deal have been disclosed, discussions between the two countries shows Russia's willingness to sell advanced hardware to Pakistan despite Moscow's longstanding ties with India.

The official said Pakistan's interest in the Su-35 was driven by the PAF's need for a twin-engine fighter "that can fly for a longer range than the JF-17 and penetrate more deeply into the enemy's territory".

The PAF flies a mixed fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s, Dassault Mirage-5s, Chinese-manufactured F-7s, and the JF-17 Thunder, which is jointly produced by China and Pakistan.

In November 2014 a senior Pakistani official told IHS Jane's that Pakistan was in discussions with China to buy 30 to 40 FC-31s - the export version of China's J-31 fifth-generation platform.

At the time, the official had told IHS Jane's that Pakistan was interested in the platform partly because it was fitted with two RD-93 Russian Klimov engines, which also powers the JF-17. PAF officials have also told IHS Jane's in the past that they have considered the purchase of up to 40 Chengdu J-10 fighters.



Despite long standing ties with India, Russia may sell Su-35 Flanker-E fighter to Pakistan - IBNLive

 

[nadeemkhan110]

Mere Existence of Su-35 Fighter Already Problem for US Air Superiority
© AFP 2015/ ERIC FEFERBERG
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
11.09.2015

The US media has sounded the alarm that the F-15, which the US Air Force touts as an “all-weather, extremely maneuverable, tactical fighter designed to gain and maintain air superiority in aerial combat”, is now facing tough competition from Russia’s Sukhoi Su-35 (NATO reporting name Flanker E), and wonders which would win in a face-to-face battle.

The US seems to be losing its presumed air superiority.

Its F-15 Eagle, which was believed to be able to “penetrate enemy defense and outperform and outfight current or projected enemy aircraft", seems to be losing its ground, according to the US magazine The National Interest.


Russian Su-35 Fighter Jet Sees Export Orders Soar
“In terms of pure kinematic performance, the Su-35 is slightly slower than the F-15C in terms of max speed but it can out accelerate the Eagle with its powerful twin Saturn Izdeliye 117S engines, which put out 31,900lbs of thrust each. Further, when the jet is relatively lightly loaded, it can maintain supersonic speeds without the use of its afterburners.”


Maneuverability at a Low Speed is Also an Area of Advantage for Russia’s Su-35:

“Where the Su-35 does have an insurmountable edge is at low speeds. The Flanker-E has three-dimensional thrust vectoring and is unbelievably maneuverable at low speeds.”

However, the magazine adds, “a lot of it is going to come down to pilot skill and, frankly, luck”:

Scary Duo: US in Fear of Russia, China to Crush on Its Stealth Aircraft
“Given the advent of helmet mounted cuing systems and high off-boresight missiles like the AIM-9X and Russian R-73, more often than not, close in visual encounters tend to be 'mutual kill' situations as many pilots can attest.”


In terms of the built-in equipment, the F-15C and the F-15E seem to hold their ground. However, the Su-35 “does hold a fleeting advantage" for passive sensors, while the F-15 is yet to receive “a very capable” built-in infrared search and track system (IRST).

“At longer ranges, the F-15C and the F-15E still have the advantage over the Su-35 with their active electronically scanned array radars. The Raytheon APG-63 (v) 3 and APG-82 (v)1 on the two Eagle variants are still considerably superior to the Su-35S’ Tikhomirov IRBIS-E phased array radar. The Su-35 does hold a fleeting advantage for now for passive sensors since it has a built-in infrared search and track system (IRST), but the F-15 fleet will receive a very capable IRST in the near future—nullifying the Flanker’s edge.”

The Flanker-E's Electronic Warfare Suite is Yet Another Area Where it “Holds the Edge”:

“The Su-35S boasts a potent digital radio frequency memory jamming suite that can wreck havoc with the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile. While American missiles are likely to eventually make it through, it will take many more missiles to achieve a kill than planners were counting on. The Su-35, meanwhile, carries a huge arsenal of air-to-air missiles versus the F-15 fleet’s obsolete defensive electronics.”


With all the above in mind, the outlet has finally found some ground to reassure itself that the danger is not that imminent. It hopes that the Su-35's advantages are going to play against the F-15, only if “the United States would be fighting a war against Russia or some other great power — like China”

“That’s not likely to happen,” it wishfully asserts.

"What's more likely to happen is that a F-15 would run into a Su-35 operated by some Third World despot. The pilots are not likely to have the training, tactics or experience to fight against an American aviator with a realistic chance of winning,” it reassures itself.

“Some random Third World power is not likely to be able generate a fully operational jet much of the time. Furthermore, other than Russia and China, a potential adversary is not likely to have an AWACS (airborne early warning and control system) or full ground controlled intercept capabilities—which further hampers the enemy.”

The Sukhoi Su-35 Fighter

The Sukhoi Su-35 fighter is a single-seat twin-engine super-maneuverable multirole fighter, built by the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Association in Russia's Far East and designed by Sukhoi, which has a contract to deliver 48 of the planes to the Russian Air Force before the end of 2015.

The Su-35 is known as a 4++ generation aircraft, which employs fifth generation technology, rendering it superior to other fourth generation fighters currently under development. The Su-35 is also a more reliable option than other fifth generation planes which are in their development phase, the best known of which are the US F-35, the Chinese J-20, and the Sukhoi PAK-FA [T-50].

Mere Existence of Su-35 Fighter Already Problem for US Air Superiority

Every one knows That Su-35 is almost 5th generation Jet Its just Not stealth.
All of su-35 technology is of 5th generation its a world class jet.
INDONESIA , NIGERIA and IRAN are going to buy su-35 just because its not that costly and its with 5th gen tech
sources:
Indonesia selects Su-35 to meet air combat requirement - IHS Jane's 360
Russia and Nigeria signed a contract for delivery of a large batch of helicopters - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

Despite long standing ties with India, Russia may sell Su-35 Flanker-E fighter to Pakistan
Posted on: 09:32 AM IST Sep 23, 2015


In what would potentially be the largest defence deal between the two countries, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is in talks with Russia to buy Su-35 'Flanker-E' fighter aircraft, say IHF Janes reports.

A senior Pakistani government official shared the information while responding to Russian media reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for an unspecified number of Su-35s, which follow a recent agreement to provide Mi-35M 'Hind E' attack helicopters to Islamabad.

Though no decision has been made yet and no terms of the deal have been disclosed, discussions between the two countries shows Russia's willingness to sell advanced hardware to Pakistan despite Moscow's longstanding ties with India.

Though no decision has been made yet and no terms of the deal have been disclosed, discussions between the two countries shows Russia's willingness to sell advanced hardware to Pakistan despite Moscow's longstanding ties with India.

The official said Pakistan's interest in the Su-35 was driven by the PAF's need for a twin-engine fighter "that can fly for a longer range than the JF-17 and penetrate more deeply into the enemy's territory".

The PAF flies a mixed fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s, Dassault Mirage-5s, Chinese-manufactured F-7s, and the JF-17 Thunder, which is jointly produced by China and Pakistan.

In November 2014 a senior Pakistani official told IHS Jane's that Pakistan was in discussions with China to buy 30 to 40 FC-31s - the export version of China's J-31 fifth-generation platform.

At the time, the official had told IHS Jane's that Pakistan was interested in the platform partly because it was fitted with two RD-93 Russian Klimov engines, which also powers the JF-17. PAF officials have also told IHS Jane's in the past that they have considered the purchase of up to 40 Chengdu J-10 fighters.



Despite long standing ties with India, Russia may sell Su-35 Flanker-E fighter to Pakistan - IBNLive

If this report and IHS janes report is true PAF IS GOING IN A RIGHT WAY.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

and whats we are looking boss i don't think uncle can offer us more f-35?

It depends on relationship. And it depends on us how we convince uncle Sam for security of technology not to fall in China hands. Plus it depends on us how we take advantage for being front line state on war against terrorism. We didn't play smart in past and didn't ask them to cover all expenses on international war.


While Are you ready for Su35s? New trade partnership with Russia? It has more sanction issue due to its deep relationship with India and more risk involved in this deal......
Better option is go with old friend America. And no such chance of sanction as we are already nuclear power and we have no such bad ambitions against America or any western country.

 

[Imran Khan]

Despite long standing ties with India, Russia may sell Su-35 Flanker-E fighter to Pakistan
Posted on: 09:32 AM IST Sep 23, 2015


In what would potentially be the largest defence deal between the two countries, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is in talks with Russia to buy Su-35 'Flanker-E' fighter aircraft, say IHF Janes reports.

A senior Pakistani government official shared the information while responding to Russian media reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for an unspecified number of Su-35s, which follow a recent agreement to provide Mi-35M 'Hind E' attack helicopters to Islamabad.

Though no decision has been made yet and no terms of the deal have been disclosed, discussions between the two countries shows Russia's willingness to sell advanced hardware to Pakistan despite Moscow's longstanding ties with India.

Though no decision has been made yet and no terms of the deal have been disclosed, discussions between the two countries shows Russia's willingness to sell advanced hardware to Pakistan despite Moscow's longstanding ties with India.

The official said Pakistan's interest in the Su-35 was driven by the PAF's need for a twin-engine fighter "that can fly for a longer range than the JF-17 and penetrate more deeply into the enemy's territory".

The PAF flies a mixed fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s, Dassault Mirage-5s, Chinese-manufactured F-7s, and the JF-17 Thunder, which is jointly produced by China and Pakistan.

In November 2014 a senior Pakistani official told IHS Jane's that Pakistan was in discussions with China to buy 30 to 40 FC-31s - the export version of China's J-31 fifth-generation platform.

At the time, the official had told IHS Jane's that Pakistan was interested in the platform partly because it was fitted with two RD-93 Russian Klimov engines, which also powers the JF-17. PAF officials have also told IHS Jane's in the past that they have considered the purchase of up to 40 Chengdu J-10 fighters.



Despite long standing ties with India, Russia may sell Su-35 Flanker-E fighter to Pakistan - IBNLive

now this will flame in india again

 

[Quwa]

Prasun K sengupta view on Pak Russia Su35 murmurs and relationship

Prasun K. Sengupta said..

• Why is everyone going into a tizzy about the Su-35? Instead, the following need to be considered:
  • Was the PAF’s CAS invited to see the Su-35 during the MAKS 2015 expo last month? No.
  • Did a senior PAF delegation visit MAKS 2015? No. Have the Russians sent a Su-35 to Pakistan for in-country demonstration flights? No.
  • Has the PA inked any contract with Russia to procure the four Mi-35Ms? No.
  • Will China & the US who are helping Pakistan survive financially ever allow Pakistan to procure major weapons platforms from Russia? Never. Between the AH-1Z Viper, ZW-10 & Mi-35M, which one will the PA prefer? Definitely the AH-1Z.
• Now to why the Ruskies warmed up to the PA’s COAS a few months back. The reason was the PA during Op Zarb-e-Azb eliminated plenty of ragheads from Chechnya & Uzbekistan who were sworn enemies of Russia in the north Caucasus, & since the PA will be preoccupied with such low-intensity conflicts for the next 10 years at the very least, the PA requires more Mi-171s plus more product-support for these helicopters.
• And that’s exactly what Russia will end up selling to the PA. Nothing else.
• In addition, the Ruskies will most probably supply a RD-93 turbofan NRO facility that will be cited in Kamra.
• Furthermore, since the PAF can no longer bank on Ukraine for supporting its four IL-78MKPs, it will have to approach Moscow for MRO support
• The same goes for the spare 125mm main gun barrels for the PA’s T-80UD MBTs.
• So let’s bury the ghost of Su-35s destined for Pakistan once & for all. In fact, the same can be said even for China, especially after Beijing blatantly embarrassed Moscow by including Chinese clones like the J-11B & J-15 in the September 3 flypast.
• Russia is now asking for an enormous amount of liquidated damages from China for cloning the Su-27/Su-30 families, for cloning the S-300P & for cloning all the naval radars I’ve mentioned above.
• Russia also wants China to promise that none of these cloned items will ever be exported. If ever China starts exporting these items, especially the cloned & cheaper J-11s & J-15s & J-16s, it result in Russia being ousted for good from the global weapons export market.
• So, for all intents & purposes, the Su-35s are no longer on offer to China as well

@Imran Khan @Mark Sien @Oscar @MastanKhan @Zarvan

Is his points valid? as i am not aware too much of PAF integral things so i am asking your views on this.

@Ind4Ever @Abingdonboy @Blue Marlin

The critical flaw with that otherwise sound argument is that talks are actually taking place between Russia and Pakistan. Beyond the fact that a Pakistani official said everything is in its early stages, we don't know anything else. We don't know how many, how much, whether this is a tender for a certain kind of plane or a specific interest in Su-35, etc. We just know that the two sides are talking, and if that is the case, then the idea that Russia wouldn't sell such a system to Pakistan should be put to rest. Russia (like Sweden or U.S pre-2001) could have just said, "we're not discussing this matter as we have no plans to sell to Pakistan." But in reality, neither Pakistan or Russia have come out denying the statements made to the media by people on both sides of the fence.

 

[SHAMK9]

Despite long standing ties with India, Russia may sell Su-35 Flanker-E fighter to Pakistan - IBNLive

Straight to the comment section

 

[illusion8]

-Secondly, for someone who goes in to such detail over a single word ...

I went in such detail on a single word because that's the only single statement available from the russian side - the rest are just conjectures and extrapolations...the only statement from a low ranked FM "also talking about delivery of SU35" is the only real statement for which all this brouhaha has been created. One can only draw some observations from that singular statement.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

now this will flame in india again

Russia wants to work with Pakistan due to gain certain technologies that Pakistan posses which are not available from the West and India.

As far as China acquiring the SU-35 is concerned they are not interested in them because they do not want to invest in them at this stage however they are thinking if India some how manages to get out of the PAK-FA then they would like to buy some of them and also invest in joint production.

As far as Pakistan is concerned they are interested in getting stealth tech not just form one source but from all those who are willing to provide this...

Now this is the very reason the Indians are on fire...

 

[nadeemkhan110]

Russia is thinking to sale su-35 to Pakistan through China
Russia may be working out a deal to sell Su-35 aircraft simultaneously to Pakistan and China, making it the biggest order of the most advanced in-production fighter in Russia.
While Pakistani officials admitted to an international journal last week that they are considering buying SU-35, confirming earlier reports emanating from Russia, China is already in talks to buy 24 Su-35 aircraft from Russia.
A Russian source told Defenseworld.net, given that Russian weapon sales to Pakistan was a sensitive issue with its traditional partner, India, a way would have to found in which it would not appear that Russia was selling aircraft which are more advanced than the Su-30MKI with India.
One of the ways being considered was that the aircraft would be sold to China in stock form and then transferred to Pakistan after necessary modifications as per Islamabad's requirements. The source clarified that it was too early to speculate on the nature of the transaction and a lot depended on decisions taken at the political level. However, it was for sure that Moscow would not do anything that would disturb its relationship with New Delhi, the source added.
The Su-35 comes with NIIP Irbis-E passive electronically scanned array radar and the 117S engine which are more advanced than the radar and engine on board the Su-30MKI with India.
Another reason for Russia to sell to Pakistan, either directly or through China is the fear that the latter copies Russian platform and components and sells to foreign customers, the foremost among them is Pakistan.
sources:
Is Russia Offering China, Pakistan A Su-35 Aircraft Package Deal?

 

[baqai]

^ i am happy that i am not the only one who thought of that copying theory :p

 

[Muhammad Omar]

@Peaceful Civilian Look at the Article by @nadeemkhan110

Russia to sell to Pakistan, either directly or through China is the fear that the latter copies Russian platform and components and sells to foreign customers, the foremost among them is Pakistan.

Told you China Reversed Engineered Russian Flankers

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

@Peaceful Civilian Look at the Article by @nadeemkhan110

Russia to sell to Pakistan, either directly or through China is the fear that the latter copies Russian platform and components and sells to foreign customers, the foremost among them is Pakistan.

Told you China Reversed Engineered Russian Flankers

Lolzzzzzzz, if we get Chinese copies then there should be no spare parts issue, Nor much sanction issue too and Russia to convince india we are getting it from china... hahaha... .
Win Win situation for Russia, china & Pak.
And india as typical cry baby if this deal happens....
Nice way to troll india