Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[ACE OF THE AIR]

This is all that has been discussed by now. The numbers are already in the news, it will be more than or 2 SQD. Can go up to 50. PAF wants the Russians to mod them as per their needs along with the capability of using Chinese ammo.

The Su-35 are to replace the Mirages ?

 

[zebra7]

Engine is correct Radar is PESA but more powerful & RCS is speculated near 5m2 compared to 10 to 15 m2 of Su-30s
And its Single seater compared to other flankers.

Lot of effort by the russian in the engine to increase the TBO life. RCS is low due to absence of canard since radar weight is less and RAM coating and speculated special technologies say Plasma shield. Radar is more powerful with 20watt of output and more processing power than Bars.

Extra fuel does not gives you A2G capability, Radar & other sensors do. Its primary made for Air superiority role & excellent dogfighter with 3D TVC compared to 2D TVC of Su-30 MKI

Yes but the enormous size of Russia makes it necessary for covering large distance. In Radar yes it will be the most powerful in wattage airborne radar but other factors are also there specially processing power and centric data management and sensors and jammers in which Russia might me lagging but the difference with the europeans (not including US) is not much. And by the way Su30MKI have 2.5D TVC because both the engine are fitted in different fashion.

Fifth gen. no, other yes.

Fith Generation Yes. Why Look if you have a capable ground radars capability which Russian have they can detect fifth Gen fighter. 5th Gen fighter does not means its invisible but indicates that its difficult to detect and su35 low RCS, Powerfull Radar, Passive sensons coupled with the satellite and long range BVR R77 P which gives the range of 200KM is meant for 5th gen and long range, high altitute, Reccee and Bombers which only US possess which Russia have to counter which is also the same case with the China.

But this strategy is main negative point for Su-35, after success of other flanker series they designed a pure air superiority marvel in Multirole age (its poor in A2G role compared to Su-30 MKI which itself a not topnotch strike fighter for ground attack). And F117 engine also make the case worse as it can't be mounted on other flankers to make common in their upgrade.
So, Su-35 failed in weapon market due to economic & maintenance issue not performance.

Poor in A2G well it depends say if you want to drop LGB or unguided bomb using Su35 that that is purely the waste because that can be done with other 4th gen multirole fighter or ground attack fighter. But if you want to attack more hardened target like airbase or performing SEAD or DEAD mission than the air to ground cruise missile is the better choise provided the Radar is capable of SAR which can be easily implemented with a software implimentation and by the way your Su30MKI though have the capable radar BARS NP001 but it was only capable of A2A but was upgraded for SAR and ground mapping including GMITI with the upgradation of the software in its processing computer.

Su-35 won't find much market not because of its capability but because of its use which only Russia and China seems to qualify and to fully harness its capability specially its passive sensors coupled with the navigation Radars.

The following source states the RCS to be 0.5m2 and I don't claim it to be 100% authentic, but it seems closer to the estimate of 1 to 3m2 than this 5m2 claim. Unless I come across a source which specifically states the RCS is more than 3m2, I am more inclined to think it to be anywhere from 0.5 to 3m2.

Deagel : Su-35

Su-35 Specifications
Crew: 1
External Stations: 12
Number of Engines: 2
Service Life Flight Hours: 6,000
Area
Radar Cross Section (RCS): 0.50 square meter (5,000 square cm)
Dimensions
Height: 5.90 meter (19.4 foot)
Length: 21.9 meter (72 foot)
Wingspan: 15.3 meter (50 foot)
G-load
Max Maneuvering Load Factor: 9 g
Performance
Ceiling: 19,000 meter (62,336 foot)
Ferry Range: 4,500 kilometer (2,430 nautical mile)
Max Range: 3,600 kilometer (1,944 nautical mile)
Max Range at Sea Level: 1,580 kilometer
Speed
Cruise Speed: 1.20 mach (398 mps)
Top Speed at High Altitude: 2,500 kph (2.09 mach)
Top Speed at Sea Level: 1,400 kph (1.17 mach)
Time
Service Life: 30 year
Time Between Overhaul: 10 year
Weight
Fuel Load: 11,500 kilogram (25,353 pound)
Max Takeoff Thrust: 29,000 kilogram (63,933 pound)
Max Takeoff Weight: 34,500 kilogram (76,058 pound)
Operational Weight: 25,300 kilogram (55,776 pound)
Payload: 8,000 kilogram (17,637 pound)
Main Gun Caliber: 30 millimeter
Gun Ammunition Load: 150

Mere Bhai leave this because many of times all those specification is only the targeted specification which the designer intents to but does not fulfills.

And no OEM, Airforce, Pilot will reveal RCS values and if they do that is only the frontal RCS.

 

[zebra7]

leave every thing else just change your flags ... why are you so ashamed to use your orignal nations flags

Janab dosto aur dushmano ko pechano aur bhavnao ko samjho aur bato mein dhyan na do

 

[خره مينه لګته وي]

Pakistan and Russia are in the process of negotiating what analysts believe can be potentially the largest defence deal between the two countries, IHS Jane’s reported.

“The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has discussed buying Su-35 ‘Flanker-E’ fighter jets from Russia but a final decision is yet to be announced,” theIHS quoted a senior government official as saying.

Read: Talks on delivery of fighter jets, attack helicopters underway: Russian deputy FM

The senior government official’s remarks come in the wake of Russian media reports that Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov had said talks were underway for an unspecified number of Su-35s and a recent agreement for provision of Mi-35M ‘Hind E’ attack helicopters to Pakistan.

“It is too early to say if a deal will conclude and the terms,” the official said highlighting Russia’s willingness to sell advanced military hardware to Pakistan despite Moscow’s longstanding ties with India.

“Pakistan’s interest in the Su-35 was driven by the PAF’s need for a twin-engine fighter that can fly for a longer range than the JF-17 and penetrate more deeply into the enemy’s territory,’ the official revealed.

Pakistan currently relies on a mixed fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s, Dassault Mirage-5s, Chinese manufactured F-7s and the JF-17 Thunder, which is co-manufactured by Pakistan and China.

Last month, Russia agreed to sell state-of-the-art Mi-35 attack helicopters to Pakistan in what is seen as a ‘paradigm shift’ in Moscow’s policy to increase defence cooperation between the two countries.

“An agreement was signed between Pakistan and Russian authorities in Rawalpindi for the purchase of 4 Mi-35 helicopters,” a senior military official had said, not disclosing any further details.

Read: Paradigm shift: Russia agrees to sell Mi-35 helicopters to Pakistan

Moscow for long ignored Islamabad in a bid to please its long-term ally New Delhi. But as a result of India’s growing tilt towards the US, Russia has now started expanding its cooperation with Pakistan.

For its part, Islamabad is eager to improve its ties with Moscow to diversify its options in the event of any stalemate in ties with Washington.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Janab dosto aur dushmano ko pechano aur bhavnao ko samjho aur bato mein dhyan na do

challo ji apkee ye baat bhi maan lete hain

 

[zebra7]

challo ji apkee ye baat bhi maan lete hain

Analysis: Why is Pakistan looking at the Su-35? | Page 5

pechano

 

[Manindra]

Lot of effort by the russian in the engine to increase the TBO life. RCS is low due to absence of canard since radar weight is less and RAM coating and speculated special technologies say Plasma shield. Radar is more powerful with 20watt of output and more processing power than Bars.

Yes, I am not denying that, only I disputed AESA statement and RCS is still nearly 5m2 as Engine blades are not hiding.

Yes but the enormous size of Russia makes it necessary for covering large distance. In Radar yes it will be the most powerful in wattage airborne radar but other factors are also there specially processing power and centric data management and sensors and jammers in which Russia might me lagging but the difference with the europeans (not including US) is not much. And by the way Su30MKI have 2.5D TVC because both the engine are fitted in different fashion.

Yes, but not many ground mode added due to preference give to A2A mode more.

Fith Generation Yes. Why Look if you have a capable ground radars capability which Russian have they can detect fifth Gen fighter. 5th Gen fighter does not means its invisible but indicates that its difficult to detect and su35 low RCS, Powerfull Radar, Passive sensons coupled with the satellite and long range BVR R77 P which gives the range of 200KM is meant for 5th gen and long range, high altitute, Reccee and Bombers which only US possess which Russia have to counter which is also the same case with the China.

When it have RCS of 5m2 then its not make difference against 5th generation fighters to check out.

Poor in A2G well it depends say if you want to drop LGB or unguided bomb using Su35 that that is purely the waste because that can be done with other 4th gen multirole fighter or ground attack fighter. But if you want to attack more hardened target like airbase or performing SEAD or DEAD mission than the air to ground cruise missile is the better choise provided the Radar is capable of SAR which can be easily implemented with a software implimentation and by the way your Su30MKI though have the capable radar BARS NP001 but it was only capable of A2A but was upgraded for SAR and ground mapping including GMITI with the upgradation of the software in its processing computer.

And these mission can be accomplished by Su-30 MKI more easily compared to 35 as their RADAR is more optimized for ground attack.

Su-35 won't find much market not because of its capability but because of its use which only Russia and China seems to qualify and to fully harness its capability specially its passive sensors coupled with the navigation Radars.

Su-35 can find market if their F117 engine could also fitted in other flankers in upgrade (as AL-31F have pathetic 1500 hrs engine life compared to 4000 of F117) but in reality it not .
So, it would be not economical for other flanker variant user to go for Su-35 which engine can't share with their other flankers, so maintenance nightmare.
Other reason is dedicated fighter in Multirole age put it in backfoot.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Analysis: Why is Pakistan looking at the Su-35? | Page 5

pechano

chal yaar jo bhi achha hai sannu ki

 

[zebra7]

Thats the claimed TBO life by the makers lets see in the future. And leave Aesa and Pesa both are actually same but only difference in the modules and could be upgraded.

Nice talking to you.

Pakistan Jindabaad.
Allah Ho Akbar

 

[zebra7]

chal yaar jo bhi achha hai sannu ki

Hun tussi pek shek pa rahe ho te assi ki kara........... Hayo rabbaa mein nach di firra

Guru bhai tussi to elite member ho gaye ho congratullation

 

[aliyusuf]

... Mere Bhai leave this because many of times all those specification is only the targeted specification which the designer intents to but does not fulfills ...

Deagel is not the designer ... its not even a Russian site. It is also quoting values that is not coming from any Russian sites. I know sometimes these values are estimates but when a site puts out certain information it is slightly more credible then the un-sourced figures being quoted in forums.

 

[PakShaheen79]

i think the need of SU-35 necessitates from the fact that recently, Pakistan extended its EEZ and Naval fleet at the furthermost point of EEZ would need air cover against perceived Indian Naval Aviation threat. Now, if SU-35 is more optimized for A2A engagements, it makes complete sense in maritime role which in this age is not limited to keep the enemy surface fleet away but keep enemy naval air wing in check. With IN inducting P-8I like ASW platforms, SU-35 becomes a natural choice for PAF/PN.

I don't konw if deal would be singed or not, but certainly the requirement for a long range, long endurance air-superiority fighter is there.

 

[zebra7]

Deagel is not the designer ... its not even a Russian site. It is also quoting values that is not coming from any Russian sites. I know sometimes these values are estimates but when a site puts out certain information it is slightly more credible then the un-sourced figures being quoted in forums.

Ok its your choice whom to believe and by the way lot of members including our seniors thinks that i have only peanut size brain in this forum.

 

[aliyusuf]

Ok its your choice whom to believe and by the way lot of members including our seniors thinks that i have only peanut size brain in this forum.

Well I can't comment on that or the circumstances in which such a comment may have been made.
But as the saying goes ... its not the size but how you use it matters.
At least in this exchange, in my humble opinion, you certainly seem to have put it to its proper use and have not been off the mark.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

There are like many many threads now on Su-35... why not post in the previous rather then starting new one every time....