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Talking to the Taliban

Sorting the confusion over extremism



Reality check

Friday, October 17, 2008
by Shafqat Mahmood

The in-camera joint sitting of the Parliament is continuing but reports filtering out indicate that there is little agreement on the nature of the extremist challenge facing the country. Some members think that we have no homegrown problem. They explain away the horrific terror acts like the one at Marriott and the Wah ordinance factory as collateral damage of our support for the American war on terror.

Trying to explain away the insurgency in Swat and other settled districts of the NWFP is a bit more complicated, but they still insist that it has no local objectives. It is portrayed as an extension of the anti-American struggle. Fazlur Rehman has gone to the extent of legitimising the extremists and bringing them on par with our armed forces, by suggesting that they should also be invited to brief the parliament
.

The Maulana may have a personal angle to this suggestion, as he never does anything without a motive, but it highlights the confusion surrounding the issue of extremism in Pakistan. While the presence of homegrown outfits like the various "lashkars" and "sipahs" is generally acknowledged, the American angle has blurred all the extremists into one single anti-imperialist, anti-American entity.

Another tactic used by some to give legitimacy to those killing our soldiers and attacking our cities is to compare them to the Afghan Taliban. This is done in the context of negotiations that are reportedly taking place in Afghanistan. The argument made is that if the Americans and NATO are talking to the Afghan Taliban, why we can't do it here. The problem is that while the Afghan Taliban and Pakistani extremists may share a similar archaic vision of an Islamic state, the nature of their fight is completely different.

The Afghan Taliban are in a situation where their country is occupied by foreign forces. This gives their war the patina of a national liberation struggle. They are also almost exclusively Pakhtun, in a circumstance where this ethnic majority feels it has been dealt out of the power after the Americans took over Afghanistan. While Karzai is Pakhtun, he is seen as window dressing for rule by the Northern Alliance that comprises Tajiks, Uzbeks and other religious and ethnic minorities.

In the Afghan context, then, it makes a lot of sense to talk to the Taliban because the war in that country will never end as long as the Pakhtun keep feeling disempowered.
The Americans have further stoked their anger by indiscriminate bombings that have killed thousands of their kinsmen. It is not possible for the Americans and their allies to wipe out an entire ethnicity. Therefore, the war in Afghanistan cannot end unless the Pakhtuns are appeased, compensated and brought into the power set up.

It is this stark fact that has been acknowledged by British commanders in that country. The Americans will not publicly say it but they also are in tacit agreement. This has resulted in a change of strategy and the emerging emphasis on negotiations. When choosing whom to talk to they are targeting the Taliban not only because they are their principal military adversary. They are engaging with them because the Taliban are in effect the Pakhtun national army in Afghanistan. Talking to the Pakhtuns means talking to the Taliban.

The situation in Pakistan is to an extent linked to the Afghan situation but its inherent nature is completely different. Its linkage is the sympathy factor that the Pakhtun tribes in our tribal belt have for their kinfolk in Afghanistan. Also, traditions of the Pakhtun honour code oblige them to give hospitality and comfort to the Afghan Taliban who come to rest and regroup in the tribal area. This may also be the reason why some from here have also joined the fight in Afghanistan, but the number is not very large.

Another factor that links our territory to the conflict in Afghanistan is the presence of foreign fighters and perhaps people like Osama bin Laden in our tribal belt. These elements are a hangover of the anti-Soviet Afghan war in the 80s. They have used their money and Islamic notions of brotherhood, to make a place for themselves here. The word Al Qaeda means the base, and the base for them these days for waging a war against the US and the West is parts of Afghanistan and our tribal area.

These people, Al Qaeda and Afghan Taliban, fight us because we want to deny them a base on our territory. They are supported in this conflict by their local cohorts both because they sympathise with their cause and have tribal and ethnic linkages with them. Thus, the fighting in Bajaur and Waziristan and a few of the other tribal agencies could be described as a result of our effort to deny Afghan Taliban and Al Qaeda a base, a sanctuary in Pakistan.

What is going on in Swat, on the other hand, or in parts of the settled districts of the NWFP, only has tangential links to America's war in Afghanistan. These conflicts are part of a wider agenda to impose a particular version of an Islamic state in Pakistan. Schools for girls are not being bombed in Swat to hurt the Americans. Barber shops and CD sellers are not being threatened to drive the Americans out of the region. They are part of the agenda to transform the Pakistani state.

In this conflict, which is totally homegrown, all manner of people have come together. There are radicalised Talibs in the frontier who have emerged from the local madressah system. A majority of them are poor who not only feel that the state does nothing for them; they also experience direct contradiction with their local elites. A close examination of the Swat conflict will clearly show elements of class war in it
.

These people are supported directly by many of the shadowy groups in Punjab and Sindh that sprouted during the Afghan war and had state sponsorships. The lashkars, the jaish's and the sipahs actively support the struggle going on in the NWFP and play their part by facilitating terror bombings in the capital and other urban areas of the country. They also whenever the opportunity arises indulge in culture wars by threatening cinemas, music shops and last week, the entire Hall road in Lahore.

This loose coalition of our homegrown extremists is essentially working on a Pakistani agenda but it has a link with and support of anti-American elements in the region. A weak Pakistani state suits Al Qaeda because it increases the space for its activities. It is ready to contribute monetarily and with arms to help the local extremist to continue their fight against Pakistan.

Will a possible American departure from the region, unlikely though it is, bring an end to the link between Al Qaeda and local groups and thus reduce the internal conflict in Pakistan? Unlikely, because our homegrown extremists were active before American intervention in Afghanistan and their departure will make no difference to their agenda. If anything, it will embolden them and make them more aggressive.

Unless we recognise the challenge we face and come together to fight it, we will have a hard time surviving.



Email: shafqatmd@gmail.com
 
:pakistan::pakistan::china::pakistan::pakistan:


Security forces recover Chinese engineer
Updated at: 1730 PST, Friday, October 17, 2008
SWAT: Security forces successfully recovered a Chinese engineer who earlier fled from the captivity of the militants.

Earlier, the two Chinese engineers, who were taken hostage by the Taliban two months ago from Dir district, tried to escape from custody, however, one of the engineers was recaptured later.

The security forces later recovered the engineer who succeeded in escaping.

Helicopters were also used in search and rescue operation launched by the security forces.

The engineers, who were taken hostage from Dir district, tried to flee from custody when they were being shifted from one place to another.
 
Editorial from The News International

War and peace



Saturday, October 18, 2008
As debate on terrorism and the national security situation continues in the secret session of parliament, members of opposition parties have called for an end to the use of force and the opening up of talks with militants. The JUI-F chief, Maulana Fazlur Rehman, has offered to mediate between the government and militants. Faced with fierce criticism over its policies, the government has said it may reconsider them. The ongoing discussion at the joint sitting of both houses coincides with a peace accord in the Kurram agency, mediated by tribal elders. Under it, the warring Turi and Bangash tribes, locked for months in a sectarian conflict that has claimed hundreds of victims, have agreed to re-open roads in the area, exchange prisoners, release kidnapped persons and, with any luck, end violence. For months food has not been reaching the upper parts of Kurram agency, adding to the suffering of thousands in Parachinar and other towns. People have been forced to travel through Afghanistan to reach Peshawar. Now that peace seems to have won over war, their plight will hopefully improve.

The triumph of peace, over conflict, is almost always welcome. Certainly, this is the case in Kurram where too much blood has been senselessly spilled. But we must question whether the call for dialogue made by opposition figures in parliament is necessarily a wise one. The problem is that, in the past, talks with militants have repeatedly been violated by them. The most recent example of this came only weeks ago in Swat. A deal under which key figures of Tehreek-e-Nifaz-e-Shariah Mohammadi were released in return for peace was broken within months by militants. This has happened too in Bajaur, in Waziristan and elsewhere. That the roar of gunfire has ceased in Kurram is good news. Negotiations seem to have worked in halting the battle between local Shia and Sunni tribes. But elsewhere in our northern areas, the nature of the war between militants and security forces is rather different. These elements threaten the very existence of Pakistan; they have proved themselves to be unreliable, committed only to pursuing their own self-interest. For these reasons, the strategy to be adopted against them needs to be carefully considered. The parliamentarians must keep in mind that peace may not always be preferable to war, particularly when such a peace means more violence in the future. These factors must be carefully weighed and all sides put forward at the debate before any final conclusion is reached.


Pakistan want TTP leadership, DEAD, ALL Trainers, DEAD!, All those involved in atrocities against FC and Pak Fauj, Dead!! All TPP rank and file "reeducated" for a period no less than several decades.!! All political facilitators and enablers publicly identified!!

You hear Fazlu, Nawaz and Qazi?? Your time will come and for the terror unleashed, there will be "justice" for you.:cheers::pakistan:
 
This is a perfect oppurtunity to force the Taliban into a concrete peace agrement. I think they have come to accept that fighting with the Pakistan army is only strengtening our mutual enemies. Army should make peace with them and ready it self for the inevitable confrontaion with Americans and NATO and should concentrate on eradicating Bharati consulates, influence and RAW centers!
 
No place for a bloody Taliban in my sacred country, fight till we kill the last fcukin terrorist! :sniper:


its voice of whole nation of pakistan finish them forever and doný give then chance for re cover there arms and mens
 
I believe if Pakistan decides to abandon American "War on Terror" and support China & Afghanistan, it will not only resolve domestic but also regional problems.

Pushtoon belt is our ally and provides us strategic depth.

The insurgency in Afghanistan is not Taliban insurgency it is the Pushtoon insurgency -deeply rooted in people and same is the case in Pushtoon areas in Pakistan. General public sympathises with them.

I believe that Pak Army is facing aggressive response from US war lords in Washington and we are trying to get through this pre-election period.

Our great ISI should start to sabotage American bases in Pakistan/Afghanistan so that Americans never get themselves established on this side of the border, else they will take our Nuclear Assets and then will try to balkanize Pakistan like they did in Iraq.

General Petraeus is experienced general and has come with a plan, we must counter their plans, else there will be too many issues for us to fix.

Sincerely

.....
 
I believe if Pakistan decides to abandon American "War on Terror" and support China & Afghanistan, it will not only resolve domestic but also regional problems.

Well we again and again fail to realize that it is our own "war" against TTP and other foreign funded groups. US is not bothered about TTP and it's actions to destabilize Pakistan. TTP is actually doing a favor for anti-Pakistan forces.

Supporting Afghanistan now is not a feasible idea as it "home" of terrorist groups in Pakistan and their govt is very much tilted to-wards our hostile neighbor.

Pushtoon belt is our ally and provides us strategic depth.

Irrespective of ethnicity, every individual is "Pakistan's strength" who is making an effort to eradicate this cancer of terrorism against nation. Let it be people in "GOP", "Pakistan Armed Forces" or "local tribals", all are strength of Pakistan.

The insurgency in Afghanistan is not Taliban insurgency it is the Pushtoon insurgency -deeply rooted in people and same is the case in Pushtoon areas in Pakistan.

TTP is different from Afghan Taliban. It has been reported and discussed numerous times in this forum. Please search the forum for those threads and I would also like to refer you to this article (para 12) from Asia Times Online.

General public sympathises with them.

Any particular source to claim that?

Our great ISI should start to sabotage American bases in Pakistan/Afghanistan so that Americans never get themselves established on this side of the border, else they will take our Nuclear Assets and then will try to balkanize Pakistan like they did in Iraq.

US is aware of it's potential defeat in Afghanistan thats why they are on dialog table "first". It will not be wise if Pakistan starts offensive in Afghanistan against US as it will further deteriorate situation in FATA.

We should adopt the policy of "wait and see" in case of Afghanistan. US and NATO will not long soon, not me but history tells us that.
 
Peace With TTP? On the following terms: TTP leadrship, DEAD!! TTP trainers, DEAD!!, TTP rank and File in "reeducation" facilities (preferably underground), All political facilitators and enablers, publicly identified -- This is a peace that will genuine prosperity and well being for the Pakistani nation and state.

Indeed the pashtun belt are with pakistan and not the TTP, that is even more reason to go in seperate this cancer of TTP from the Body of pashtun society.

Political enablers, supporters and propagandists of extremism, Just remember, acountablity is for all, what could be fairer??

Our choice is a Pakistan free of Islamist terror or a Cesspool of humilation and degradation, in other words, we have no choice but to safe Pakistan which our patrimony, not that of islamist terrorist, their patrimony awaits them in Hell.

:pakistan::cheers::wave::pakistan:
 
TTP leadrship, DEAD

its good for them

TTP trainers, DEAD!

its good for them because there job is finish after leadership daid

TTP rank and File in "reeducation" facilities (preferably underground),
,

after TTP daid whats need to distroy these bildings we use as girls schools wich TTP distroyd

Our choice is a Pakistan free of Islamist terror or a Cesspool of humilation and degradation

its dream of whole pakistani nation
 
Begging your pardon if this has already been posted, but it is another piece that suggest some reason to be hopeful that TTP is close to being routed == I hope international arrest warrants are being prepared for the leadership, this leadership will without doubt, be seeking "refuge" in neghboring countries (ishara) Agnostic and Neo had offered that Pakistan's premier intelligence
service, Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence is pursuing a policy designed to a multiplicity of rewards and degrees of punishment to promote a series of scenarios in which self interest of the various commanders would assume a commanding role, it seems to be paying off:



Baitullah losing control after new peace deals



Saturday, October 18, 2008

By Hamid Mir

ISLAMABAD: The NWFP Governor, Owais Ghani, has started a new dialogue process in Fata and has struck peace deals with the militants in North and South Waziristan brokered through local tribal elders.

Well-informed sources have revealed that the peace deal in North Waziristan was struck recently with a local Taliban commander Qari Gul Bahadar who holds control in the areas around Miramshah. Another peace deal in South Waziristan was reached with Maulvi Nazir who assured the governor through tribal elders that he will not fight the Pakistan Army and will not allow anyone in his areas to provide shelter to foreigners.

Governor Owais Ghani confirmed these peace deals to this scribe and observed that the situation has improved in the North and South Waziristan following these deals. Qari Gul Bahadar belongs to the TTP of Baitullah Mahsud but Maulvi Nazir is not a part his organisation. He belongs to the Wazir tribe and controls most of the areas bordering Afghanistan including Angoor Adda.

These peace deals have created differences within the TTP resulting in Baitullah Mahsud losing control over militants in North Waziristan. As a result attacks on the Pakistan Army have sharply declined in both North and South Waziristan.

But on the other hand, US drones are continuously targeting areas, which are in the control of Qari Gul Bahadar and Maulvi Nazir. However, an analyst on the US involvement in the region brushed aside the impression that the Americans target those areas where the government makes peace deals. He said the American missiles hit only those militants who are involved in attacks against them.

The governor said past peace deals in the same areas failed because those were signed between the military and the militants but this time he has also involved some tribal elders in the deals.

The governor said the militant groups not willing to fight the Pakistan Army are welcome to talks but some are following a foreign agenda and their objective is just to create instability in Pakistan.

He also hinted at the involvement of the Indian intelligence agency RAW and Israeli intelligence agency Mossad in the destabilisation of the tribal areas. He said the Indians were clearly behind the attacks on the Chinese engineers in Balochistan and now they have cultivated some groups in Fata with the help of their Afghan friends.

He said the Pakistan Army is no more fighting with some ordinary militants in Fata. “We are now facing an insurgency and we have to deal them with an iron fist,” said the governor. On the other hand, Awami National Party leadership has raised some questions about the recent peace deals initiated by Governor Owais.

The ANP leadership is of the view that these peace accords were done with those who want to fight the US troops in Afghanistan and these groups have not abandoned their Jihad in Afghanistan openly
.

Some parliamentarians from Fata have welcomed these peace deals and said that after peace accord in North and South Waziristan another peace agreement was reached in Kurram agency between Shia and Sunni communities. All these are positive developments but all the state institutions need to develop coordination with each other to further improve the situation in Fata.
 

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