‘Taliban’s participation necessary for peace’

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You can not even see how biased you are,all you show me is a few cases of taliban doing stupid stuff and not a single link to US/NATO crimes.
You want the taliban to bend over to mushy/bush....sorry mate dont think so.
The last i read the pakistan army was deserting there post and being captured by the taliban with out firing a single shot.

I have already told you that I am concerned with the situation in Pakistan, not with what the U.S and Nato are doing. These militants are killing Pakistani forces and killing and threatening Pakistani civilians. How about you give me a link showing how many civilians the pakistani Army has killed that justifies the "war" these criminals have declared.

Here is a post by Dargay on another forum listing the terrorist act committed by your "jannat ki hoorain tallash karnay walay" (heres to hoping that they get hoodwinked into going to a hall full of gay men with a fetish for hairy bearded men in the after life):

Reuters) -
Here is a chronology of the surge of attacks that have killed at least 243 people since a military assault against a Taliban-led movement in an Islamabad mosque killed 102 people in July:

* July 4: A suicide bomber kills six soldiers and two children in North West Frontier Province (NWFP). A roadside bomb aimed at police kills four civilians in another part of the province.

* July 6: A suicide bomber throws himself at an army jeep, killing six soldiers in NWFP.

* July 8: Unidentified gunmen kill three Chinese workers and wound another in Peshawar, NWFP. Separately, a policeman is killed in a blast in NWFP.

* July 12: Two suicide bomb attacks kill seven people, including three policemen, in the semi-autonomous North Waziristan tribal region and NWFP.

* July 14: A suicide car-bomber kills 24 paramilitary soldiers and wounds 29 in North Waziristan; two security officials are wounded in another blast in NWFP.

* July 15: Sixteen people, most of them paramilitary soldiers, are killed in a suicide-bomb ambush on a patrol in Swat valley in NWFP. Separately, a suicide bomber targets a police recruiting centre in Dera Ismail Khan in NWFP, killing 29.

* July 17: A suicide bomber kills 16 people outside a court in Islamabad where the country's suspended chief justice, Iftikhar Chaudhry, was due to speak. Separately, a suicide bomber kills four, including three soldiers, in North Waziristan.

* July 18: Seventeen soldiers are killed when militants attack a security force convoy in North Waziristan.

July 19: Three suicide attacks kill at least 52 people. At least 30 are killed in the southern town of Hub. In the northwest city of Hangu a car bomber kills seven people. And at least 15 worshippers are killed at a mosque at an army training centre in northwest Kohat.

* July 27: A suicide bomb attack in a restaurant near Islamabad's Red Mosque complex killed 13 people, most of them policemen.

* August 13: A roadside bomb kills four people in northwest Pakistan on the eve of the country's 60th independence day.

* August 16: A roadside blast kills two soldiers in North Waziristan.

* August 18: A soldier is killed in an attack on a security post near the Afghan border.

* August 20: Three paramilitary soldiers are killed and eight wounded when a bomber rams a checkpost in the northwestern town of Thal.

* August 24: A suicide bomber kills five soldiers and wounds 30 in an attack on a convoy in Waziristan. Hours later another suicide bomber kills another soldier in the region.

* August 26: Four policemen are killed and two wounded in a suicide bomb attack in the Swat valley.

* September 1: A suicide bomber kills three paramilitary soldiers and two civilians in northwest Bajaur.

* September 4: Two suicide bombers kill 24 and wound 66 in Rawalpindi.

where are most of these attacks happening? Waziristan.

Your "few" men have also killed over 260 tribal Maliks in the area (Pakistani FATA) in the last few years. Now what do their Tribal brethren have to do with the US/NATO on the other side of the border?

By Ismail Khan

PESHAWAR, Nov 14: Just when the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) lawmakers were flashing victory signs over the passage of Hasba bill from the NWFP assembly, barely 40km to the south of Peshawar in Darra Adamkhel, the Taliban were distributing pamphlets, warning tribal elders to behave themselves and threatening schools meant for girls to close down.

The pamphlets were menacing, containing stark warnings to local tribal elders to behave or risk facing a fate similar to that of the 200 or so tribal maliks killed in the restive Waziristan tribal region. Two girls’ schools and a boarding house for female teachers have been closed down. A driver, bringing female teachers to the town situated in the midst of craggy mountains, has received a similar note.

All this is ominously happening in a place at a stone’s throw from Peshawar.

According to analysts, if Talibanisation once seemed affecting some remote regions further south in Tank, Bannu and Dera Ismail Khan, it is now staring us right in the face. Darra Adamkhel, a semi-autonomous region and one of the world’s biggest markets of illicit arms manufacturing, borders Peshawar and falls in the jurisdiction of the NWFP government.

It is scary. Like an epidemic, Talibanisation is spreading and enveloping all the regions, one by one.

Hasba bill a poll gimmick with little substance -DAWN - Top Stories; November 15, 2006

Try looking at the bigger picture where the zionist what to break up pakistan,and what a better way then a civil war.
An isreali general in the 1980's said that they would breakup iraq into three states,a kurdish,sunni arab and shia arab sections,is that not what has happened?
Try looking up the the new map for a greater middle east published by an american general where they include pakistan being broken up with the NWFP going to afghanistan and baluchistan/sind going to a new country called greater baluchistan which takes in parts of iran.

The map is at the bottom the page if you check the site below
The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil

And please save us from the accusation of being called a conspiracy theoriest....that what they said the during the 80/90 to people that said iraq would be split into three.

The Iraqis only have themselves to blame for what is going on. The Kurds cannot integrate with any country they live in, and Al Qaedas hatred for the Shia, and its incessant bombing of Shia's, instigated the Shia militias to retaliate against the Sunnis. This is all about Muslims killing Muslims, and hating or not accepting each other, because one group says the Kalima differently or accepts this that or the other as the true Caliph.

 

[roadrunner]

The taliban did not just conquer terrority but the vast majority was bought under there control by making alliances with warlords,tribal elders ect this was a mistake looking back in retrospect as this diluted the true nature of the movement.

What was the true nature of the movement?

The disarming also took place where pushtoon warlords where in charge and was not a shia specific issue but one which was a problem with all non taliban people wanting to join the movement.

The Taliban wanted to disarm Afghanistan (and of course for them to rule it). But this was not part of the deal with Masari Hazara. Why did the Taliban join forces and then disarm them before they had taken all of Kabul from Rabbani. And then why did they take him prisoner and throw him out of an airplane? They did not do this to all the warlords they disarmed.

The only person who lack's anything concrete in his claims is yourself...from being convinced that the taliban had no shia commanders to know accepting that they did have shia commanders but they where not real commanders as they had nominal control over there area.

We can go round and round in circles on this, if you don't bother to read what is written. Your claim that Maszari was accepted as a Taliban commander is false..he was disarmed, killed after. Your claim that nominal control of an area means they were commanders I dont agree with either. The Taliban and Shia had opposing ideology. They might have given "nominal control" to some Shi'ite, but there were no Shi'ites commanding Sunnis, and where they were "controlling" it was not them charge. It was all just religious political correctness. The Taliban just had an extremist ideology. If the Shias could be useful to them, then they were accepted, if not they were disposed of.

Do you understand the concept of governing a country? you want the taliban to let the warlords rule and not let the central authority exert control,they had to disarm the various warlords and bring them under the taliban...shia,tajik,hazara,pushtoon,doing the same thing that all poitical movements do.

Of course, disarming was a good thing. i dont think i criticized them for it. They were religiously intolerant in my opinion though. Like most other groups in Afghanistan. So I don't think they were fit to rule, same as the Tajiks and Uzbeks in fact.

I never said the taliban where a religiously tolerant sect,just that there where no diffrent to any other group in the world fighting for there country and are not the "be all end all" of evil on earth.

They're fighting for their country like any other group would, but they're also backward and uneducated people who aren't a good government for the people. Probably the same as the current minority government there.

 

[dabong1]

By that logic no nation should conduct any sort of law enforcement then, because every time you would hunt down criminals and punish them, you would be "attacking your own people". However if you do not coerce other people, do not threaten their lives and material possessions and do not threaten peace, you have nothing to worry about - Unfortunately, the Taliban/militants have done exactly the opposite, so the state has a responsibility to act, just like it would against any other criminal..

This is where you are confused,trying to link the terrorist/criminals with the taliban is totally wrong.
I have no problem with the army hunting down al qaeda like they did during the early stages of the "war on terror" with some success i might say but when the went after the taliban leadership thats when things went wrong.

I am not sure how they would act, since I don't have ESP, but I can tell you how they should act. If we had militants in Punjab, they should be captured, killed or disarmed just as they should be in any other part of Pakistan, including Waziristan.

For some reason i can snot ee the army attacking punjab the same way it has attacked NWFP/Baluchistan.

 

[Shivakumar]

For some reason i can snot ee the army attacking punjab the same way it has attacked NWFP/Baluchistan.

You are saying that there is Punjabi domination exists in Pakistan. Am I right?

 

[dabong1]

You are saying that there is Punjabi domination exists in Pakistan. Am I right?

Yeah the same way hindu domination exists in india

 

[Shivakumar]

Yeah the same way hindu domination exists in india

Thats off topic. We are discussing about Taliban and Pakistan. You have said that there is Punjabi domination. I just want to confirm that you really mean that. How India is related to this topic? If you are saying that Punjabis dominate the Pakistan, then say it directly. If you want to discuss about India, we will do it in seperate thread.

Can you prove the Punjabi domination and the GoP's discrimination against the Pushtuns?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is where you are confused,trying to link the terrorist/criminals with the taliban is totally wrong.
I have no problem with the army hunting down al qaeda like they did during the early stages of the "war on terror" with some success i might say but when the went after the taliban leadership thats when things went wrong.

What do you consider criminal activity? For me it is any activity that coerces people and threatens their lives and material possessions, or any activity that would put our national security in danger. The Taliban have done all that. Blowing up barber shops, killing the Tribal Maliks, conducting suicide attacks against the troops- remember that the LM issue took place in Islamabad, not the Tribal areas, so the Taliban cannot use that "excuse" as an "attack" on them. The Taliban initiated the "war" against the troops by attacking them. So by any standard, they have been involved in criminal activity. They are criminals, and they should be dealt with as such.

For some reason i can snot ee the army attacking punjab the same way it has attacked NWFP/Baluchistan.

Of course not, Punjab or Sindh at this point, do not have the kind of groups committing terrorism that the Tribal areas do. Your statement is nothing but baseless speculation and an underhanded attempt at painting this issue with ethnic colors. When confronted with overwhelming evidence of the guilt of the people you support, you start playing the race card.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Some more activities of your "few" people, this all in one day:

Two blasts in Swat video markets; 40 shops destroyed
Updated at 0730 PST
SWAT: Two bombs ripped through two markets of video films here damaging at least 40 shops.

According to sources, two powerful bombs exploded simultaneously in two markets of video films near Meena Bazaar on Madian Road today morning at 4:30am. The fierce explosions were heard across the city.

Nearly 40 shops were destroyed; among these shops, 24 were used to deal in video films. No fatality was reported in the incident, however.

According to sources, several days back, two local Taliban allegedly threatened Meena bazaar people to quit their business. This was reported to the police.

Prior to this, video films market in Matta area also was razed by bomb blast.

Two blasts in Swat video markets; 40 shops destroyed

Meanwhile, a five-kilogram time bomb planted on the backside wall of the district Population Welfare office in Swabi was defused on Thursday after the locals spotted it and informed the police. Three shops were destroyed in another bomb blast in Pusht Bazaar in the Bajaur Agency on Thursday.

Gunship kills six in N Waziristan

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am sure there was a proper "Islamic trial" conducted , with the requisite 4 witnesses to prove guilt. But would that be possible if the guilty party is being abducted and killed within a day? Witnesses for the accused? Cross examination? Credibility of all witnesses concerned? FREE AND FAIR TRIAL!

Two women beheaded by militants in Pakistan PESHAWAR, Pakistan, Sept 7 (AFP) - Suspected militants beheaded two women accused of prostitution in northwestern Pakistan, police said Friday. The bodies of the women in their 40s were dumped on the outskirts of the town of Bannu, a day after they were abducted by gunmen, district police officer Dar Ali Khattak. A note left with the corpses accused the women of being involved in prostitution. (Posted @ 14:25 PST)

- DAWN - Latest Stories; September 07, 2007

 

[roadrunner]

For some reason i can snot ee the army attacking punjab the same way it has attacked NWFP/Baluchistan.

The Lal Masjid was in Punjab.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Yeah the same way hindu domination exists in india

I am afraid, there are many communities that form India. The community is what is predominant over religion.

For instance, Onam is celebrated in Kerala by all communities, be they Hindus, Christians or Moslems.

 

[dabong1]

What do you consider criminal activity? For me it is any activity that coerces people and threatens their lives and material possessions, or any activity that would put our national security in danger. The Taliban have done all that. Blowing up barber shops, killing the Tribal Maliks, conducting suicide attacks against the troops- remember that the LM issue took place in Islamabad, not the Tribal areas, so the Taliban cannot use that "excuse" as an "attack" on them. The Taliban initiated the "war" against the troops by attacking them. So by any standard, they have been involved in criminal activity. They are criminals, and they should be dealt with as such..

As usual you have no idea about what is going on other the same rehashed news that has been fed to you...open your eyes for once and take in the bigger picture,your stubborn refusal to accept that the taliban represent the vast majority of afghan and pakistani tribals will not somehow make the whole thing disappear.
The only reason the pak army is in the tribal area is becauce the US told them to.
They are fighting on americas behalf,not becauce it is in pakistans interest but american interest.

Of course not, Punjab or Sindh at this point, do not have the kind of groups committing terrorism that the Tribal areas do. Your statement is nothing but baseless speculation and an underhanded attempt at painting this issue with ethnic colors. When confronted with overwhelming evidence of the guilt of the people you support, you start playing the race card.

The only baseless speculation is you accusing the taliban of carrying out every crime in pakistan......any car thefts in your area?....blame the taliban..........Bird flu.......blame the taliban

 

[dabong1]

The Lal Masjid was in Punjab.

So the one attack on one building in islamabad is the same as the army going into waziristan?
When the army launch a op on the same scale as waziristan/baluchistan then your point might be more valid.

 

[dabong1]

Some more activities of your "few" people, this all in one day:


Two blasts in Swat video markets; 40 shops destroyed
Updated at 0730 PST
SWAT: Two bombs ripped through two markets of video films here damaging at least 40 shops.

According to sources, two powerful bombs exploded simultaneously in two markets of video films near Meena Bazaar on Madian Road today morning at 4:30am. The fierce explosions were heard across the city.

Nearly 40 shops were destroyed; among these shops, 24 were used to deal in video films. No fatality was reported in the incident, however.

According to sources, several days back, two local Taliban allegedly threatened Meena bazaar people to quit their business. This was reported to the police.

Prior to this, video films market in Matta area also was razed by bomb blast.

[/url]

Two local Taliban "allegedly" threatened.
Do you understand what "allegedly" means,thats when theres no proof.
.....brainwashed media turns people into fools

 

[dabong1]

I am sure there was a proper "Islamic trial" conducted , with the requisite 4 witnesses to prove guilt. But would that be possible if the guilty party is being abducted and killed within a day? Witnesses for the accused? Cross examination? Credibility of all witnesses concerned? FREE AND FAIR TRIAL!



- DAWN - Latest Stories; September 07, 2007

This reminds me of that woman that the taliban killed in the stadium,made world headlines...those barbaric taliban ,how evil they are,look at the way they killed that poor woman.
Only later did we find out that she killed her husband and i think her step daughter also while they where asleep.
The secular system you love so much cauces a lot more injustice and dispare where people wait years for justice only to find out that the judge has been paid off.

"Witnesses for the accused? Cross examination? Credibility of all witnesses concerned? FREE AND FAIR TRIAL!"....islam is the only way