‘Taliban’s participation necessary for peace’

[dabong1]

Hopefully when you do get around to presenting your evidence from "secondary sources", it will somewhat follow the guidelines laid out above, and not fall completely into the domain of "opinions and gossip" of a few individuals with the same ideology and biases as yourself.

The only people falling into "opinions and gossip" is yourself....brainwashed by the media to such an extent i am sure you have forgotten what being a pakistani is.
I know how to keep you happy... .....the flag of your hero's

 

[roadrunner]

The only people falling into "opinions and gossip" is yourself....brainwashed by the media to such an extent i am sure you have forgotten what being a pakistani is.
I know how to keep you happy... .....the flag of your hero's

Dude, no need to act like you don't know what we mean. You say things that are completely the opposite of Pakistan's interests, and then stick up a Pakistani flag after it, presumably you believe this will give your words more credibility. You contradict yourself in almost all your posts, the humour value is needed. Don't you find it a contradiction to stick up a Pakistan flag, when your whole ideology is centred around its destruction, and rule from some non-existent (in Pakistan) ethnic group? Explain to me how this is in Pakistan's interests, or the Pakistani people's interests.

 

[dabong1]

Dude, no need to act like you don't know what we mean. You say things that are completely the opposite of Pakistan's interests, and then stick up a Pakistani flag after it, presumably you believe this will give your words more credibility. You contradict yourself in almost all your posts, the humour value is needed. Don't you find it a contradiction to stick up a Pakistan flag, when your whole ideology is centred around its destruction, and rule from some non-existent (in Pakistan) ethnic group? Explain to me how this is in Pakistan's interests, or the Pakistani people's interests.

When NATO/US has leave afghanistan the taliban/tribals will still be around,there not going anywhere.
You think that by following the US it will serve pakistans intrests long/short term.
It is your ideology that is centred around pakistans destruction not mine.
You keep thinking that the west is a better friend of pakistans then its own people.
The only contradiction is that as muslims you want us to follow a non muslim nation in attacking its own people,these same people that defeated the USSR ,but let me guess they where holy warriors then but now are terrorists.
As bush said your either with us or against us......am against you and what you stand for.
Pakistan is a muslim country not a "liberal" western nation.
Only a few people like yourself and a few cheerleaders think that the the US is a long term friend.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So there "hundreds, if not thousands of reporters and news organizations in Pakistan" that are reporting from the area are they?
Do you understand what happins in a insurgency...?

I am pointing out to you the contradictions in your statements that the media is not reporting or misreporting the "atrocities" you allege are being committed by the PA because (according to your reasoning) "no media presence is allowed, yet at the same time YOU the "Great Dabong" has access to sources who keep him informed about all these alleged "atrocities". How does it make sense, that thousands of media people and organizations, many of whom hail from FATA and have friends and family there, have no access to "sources", yet you do?

By the way you managed to yet again not reveal any evidence to back up your POV. Still waiting...

So the pak army is getting attacked and they do nothing in revenge when they fing there soldiers beheaded.......dream on

No one ever denied that the Pakistan Army is retaliating when attacked, that is what they are there for. What is being argued is your unsubstantiated allegation that the PA is committing deliberate and systematic attacks on civilians. So "substantiate" your allegations please.

You said yourself its the militants crossing the border......why are so bothered about what happins to them?
Or have you got another agenda where you do not want any action that works at stopping people crossing the border so the pakistani's can keep getting blamed.

I say it again you claim taliban are crossing the border into afghanistan and attacking NATO.
Why are you so concerned with the well being of the militants.....its only them will get blown up by the mines.

Yes militants cross the border, but far more families do as well. Surely you do not want innocent women and children being killed if they stray into a minefield. History has also shown that there is a very poor record of a hundred percent cleanup of minefields after conflicts are over. But the crossing of the border by militants is not the only issue in FATA - the growing violence and coercion by the Taliban within FATA needs to be tackled as well, and deploying the SF's is an attempt to deal with both problems.

Why are these "atrocities" talking place was the question which you skillfully avoided by you like why is quetta not being attacked by pak army as the majority of attacks are in helmand province.
Was pak army getting attacked before it joined the americans in killing its own people.

There is no justification for "atrocities", I don't care if the taliban think that the Mahdi will rise up if they can just kill enough people, the atrocities by them have to be stopped. The situation within Afghanistan is the Afghan taliban's business. If the taliban feel aggrieved about NATO, then go over there and fight, instead of running back to hide in Pakistan like cowards every time they get their *** kicked.

A criminal who commits murder, rape or incest is also "our own people", those people are punished, so why should Militants not be? There is a very easy way to prevent being killed, lay down your arms, stop crossing the border to attack another country, and stop blowing up businesses and beheading people. If the Taliban do that, peace will prevail. The more violence these baboons commit, the longer the army is going to stay.

By the way, heres a friendly reminder from your local broadcaster:

"Substantiate your allegation that the PA is deliberately killing innocent people -provide evidence"

 

[roadrunner]

When NATO/US has leave afghanistan the taliban/tribals will still be around,there not going anywhere.
You think that by following the US it will serve pakistans intrests long/short term.
It is your ideology that is centred around pakistans destruction not mine.

Look, I'm not going to mince words with you anymore. How on earth can someone who has access to a PC say something so stupid? Sure when NATO leaves, tribals (not neccesarily Taliban) will still be around, but they do not have enough firepower to take over and flatten Pakistan. THE AMERICANS DO HAVE ENOUGH TO FLATTEN IT (not to take over it). Whatever happens afterwards, whether the tribals want revenge on whoever, will not make a blind bit of difference to Pakistan - the most they can do outside of their own territory is to let off a couple of suicide bombs, and I'm deeply suspicious it is the foreign Al Q and Uzbeks who are doing these suicide bombings, and not the tribals. Do you finally understand the difference here? American firepower can reduce Pakistan to the stone age, tribal firepower is only enough to defend its territory, not to go on the offensive.

Anyway, I meant your wish is to see the end of Pakistan, and its control from elsewhere. Even if my opinions led to Pakistan falling, it is not my wish to see it gone. It's your wish for that. You have a nasty habit of twisting words to suit your own thoughtless opinions.

You keep thinking that the west is a better friend of pakistans then its own people.

Where did I ever mention such a thing. It's just more twisting of words, which is your only defence. I've consistently said China is Pakistan's best friend, simply out of the trust factor. The tribals are a part of Pakistan, and they should act like it. I favour them being integrated into the Constitution.

The only contradiction is that as muslims you want us to follow a non muslim nation in attacking its own people,these same people that defeated the USSR ,but let me guess they where holy warriors then but now are terrorists.

A very stupid response yet again. I want that Pakistan defends her interests. That means doing the work of the Americans to root out Al Q from the area. And Al Q is not in Pakistan's interests anyway. It is also in Pakistan's interest not to be bombed by the Americans, yet you favour them being bombed. How is that in Pakistan's interests, to be reduced to the Stone Age? All the technology gone, and having to start over..Is there any logic to what you are typing? Think if you can.

As bush said your either with us or against us......am against you and what you stand for.
Pakistan is a muslim country not a "liberal" western nation.

It's not about Muslim nations or the clash of whatever or a crusade. You have radicalness oozing my friend. It is about OIL! Saudi is not even anywhere near on the American hitlist so you can discount the Muslim versus Western nation theory of what the WoT is about.

Only a few people like yourself and a few cheerleaders think that the the US is a long term friend.

I don't think the US is a trustable political friend for Pakistan. China is, noone else. The relationship should be made stronger. I dont think you have a clue what anyone is trying to say to you. Everyone here, except you, realizes the implications of not rooting out the terrorist Al Q's from Pakistani territory. That's a trip back to the Stone Age, which you support! How is that in Pakistan's interest, and how many rational people do you think would support it in Pakistan?

 

[dabong1]

Look, I'm not going to mince words with you anymore. How on earth can someone who has access to a PC say something so stupid? Sure when NATO leaves, tribals (not neccesarily Taliban) will still be around, but they do not have enough firepower to take over and flatten Pakistan. THE AMERICANS DO HAVE ENOUGH TO FLATTEN IT (not to take over it). Whatever happens afterwards, whether the tribals want revenge on whoever, will not make a blind bit of difference to Pakistan - the most they can do outside of their own territory is to let off a couple of suicide bombs, and I'm deeply suspicious it is the foreign Al Q and Uzbeks who are doing these suicide bombings, and not the tribals. Do you finally understand the difference here? American firepower can reduce Pakistan to the stone age, tribal firepower is only enough to defend its territory, not to go on the offensive.?

As i was told when i was young.
"Never argue with an idiot,They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

Anyway, I meant your wish is to see the end of Pakistan, and its control from elsewhere. Even if my opinions led to Pakistan falling, it is not my wish to see it gone. It's your wish for that. You have a nasty habit of twisting words to suit your own thoughtless opinions..?

Yeah and by kissing NATO/US *** somehow this will make pakistan more secure.

Where did I ever mention such a thing. It's just more twisting of words, which is your only defence. I've consistently said China is Pakistan's best friend, simply out of the trust factor. The tribals are a part of Pakistan, and they should act like it. I favour them being integrated into the Constitution...?

Yeah lets bomb the sh*t out them first and then ask them if they want to be "integrated into the Constitution".........you must be living in a fools paradise

A very stupid response yet again. I want that Pakistan defends her interests. That means doing the work of the Americans to root out Al Q from the area. And Al Q is not in Pakistan's interests anyway. It is also in Pakistan's interest not to be bombed by the Americans, yet you favour them being bombed. How is that in Pakistan's interests, to be reduced to the Stone Age? All the technology gone, and having to start over..Is there any logic to what you are typing? Think if you can....?

Do you seriously think that the US would attack a nuclear pakistan backed by china?
When did i say al qaeda should not be attacked?
Pakistan is not iraq or afghanistan that you think would roll over to US firepower.
Yeah pakistan would get bombed but then a few nukes aimed at israel would soon put a stop to that.
Now let me guess you think that the isreali/jews do not control the US govt.

It's not about Muslim nations or the clash of whatever or a crusade. You have radicalness oozing my friend. It is about OIL! Saudi is not even anywhere near on the American hitlist so you can discount the Muslim versus Western nation theory of what the WoT is about. ....?

Of course it is not.....
What has the media done to your brain,is there any independent though in there?

I don't think the US is a trustable political friend for Pakistan. China is, noone else. The relationship should be made stronger. I dont think you have a clue what anyone is trying to say to you. Everyone here, except you, realizes the implications of not rooting out the terrorist Al Q's from Pakistani territory. That's a trip back to the Stone Age, which you support! How is that in Pakistan's interest, and how many rational people do you think would support it in Pakistan?

"deeply suspicious it is the foreign Al Q and Uzbeks who are doing these suicide bombings, and not the tribals. Do you finally understand the difference here"

Your asking me do i "understand the difference"...are you feeling okay? That what i have been trying to explain to you for the last couple of days and you finally understand that the al qaeda is a different cup of tea and should be destroyed,but we must not attack the trbals as this will lead to fractures in the military/govt.

 

[Shivakumar]

As i was told when i was young.
"Never argue with an idiot,They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

If we know it before, we wouldn't argue with you.

Yeah lets bomb the sh*t out them first and then ask them if they want to be "integrated into the Constitution".........you must be living in a fools paradise

When did PA bomb them?

Do you seriously think that the US would attack a nuclear pakistan backed by china?

Backed by China? They never waste single drop of blood for you.

Pakistan is not iraq or afghanistan that you think would roll over to US firepower.
Yeah pakistan would get bombed but then a few nukes aimed at israel would soon put a stop to that.
Now let me guess you think that the isreali/jews do not control the US govt.

Now I know that where you got your education. They too have nukes and more powerful delivery system. Do you want the entire Pakistan to be wiped out from the map?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Though not addressed to me, may I give some comments?

QUOTE=dabong1;98664]As i was told when i was young.
"Never argue with an idiot,They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

An interesting quote.

I am reminded of an Arabic quote that goes:

Arrogance diminishes wisdom.

Yeah and by kissing NATO/US *** somehow this will make pakistan more secure.

A country's interest comes first. I presume the govt of Pakistan is aware and is acting in its interest.

It will be recalled that Pakistan was even expelled from the Commonwealth as also was about to be labelled as a rogue state and a failed state. At that time, Pakistan's economy was practically scraping the bottom of the barrel. At the moment of time, Musharraf took the momentous decision, wherein he not only ensured that Pakistan came back into the comity of Nations as an equal partner, but also ensure massive funds from IMF and WB as also aid from the USA.

China, obviously, could not afford the infusing of such immense funds to shore up Pakistan or else, I am sure, Pakistan would have taken that option since China is a more favoured ally.

Therefore, I surmise that Musharraf did what was best for Pakistan.

Today, the economic miracle in Pakistan can be, without prejudice, attributed to Musharraf and his govt.

It may not be prudent of me to comment whether religiosity and being shunned is important or whether an economic revival that ensure a better deal for its citizen is more important. That is for Pakistanis to answer.

There is no doubt that toeing the US line has made it a wee bit problematic, but then the interest of the country is possibly what is prompting the govt policies.

Even India is veering towards the US, which it has never done before, because it is in her national interests. At the same time, there are many including those on whose support the govt and see it survives, are dead against the alignment. Survival possibly is more important than esoteric ideals!

Yeah lets bomb the sh*t out them first and then ask them if they want to be "integrated into the Constitution".........you must be living in a fools paradise

You feel that the tribal people will not integrate into the Constitutional framework? Why? Are they beyond the Constitution? If so, what are the reasons that they want to be beyond the federal control?

Do you seriously think that the US would attack a nuclear pakistan backed by china?
When did i say al qaeda should not be attacked?
Pakistan is not iraq or afghanistan that you think would roll over to US firepower.
Yeah pakistan would get bombed but then a few nukes aimed at israel would soon put a stop to that.
Now let me guess you think that the isreali/jews do not control the US govt.

China backs no one except what is in her national interest.

Political statements and aid to ensure countries are indebted to her is what she is doing worldwide and rightly so, if viewed from her national interest. She is not doing so because of missionary zeal, she is done so to make herself internationally politically strong as also to reap in the monies for her coffers and economy! True, it is at cut rate, because it means good politics!

Inspite of China's professed support for Pakistan, if viewed without emotions, one would see that apart from selling equipment and war materiel and also assisting building infrastructure for Pakistan (which Pakistan is paying for), she has not assisted Pakistan in her wars with India. True, she has given heart warming statements for Pakistan, but whereas she could have put India into difficulty by opening a second front, she has never done so. She, i.e. China, has always acted in her own national interests. If China can act in her national interests, then where is it wrong for Pakistan to act in her own national interest of uplifting her in the comity of nations and her economy?

Of course it is not.....
What has the media done to your brain,is there any independent though in there?

The media is surely biased, but it is not a fiction industry. It has to have facts to sell its story!

"deeply suspicious it is the foreign Al Q and Uzbeks who are doing these suicide bombings, and not the tribals. Do you finally understand the difference here"

So, all the problems in Pakistan are foreign inspired?

If it is the Uzbeks and AQ, then why are some in the forum supporting these 'foreigners" (taking it that they have done it) for 'kidnapping' the Pakistan Army personnel and holding them "hostage"? Shouldn't all good Pakistani citizens oppose these foreigners and throw them out of Pakistan and make it a safe place instead of supporting them?

Your asking me do i "understand the difference"...are you feeling okay? That what i have been trying to explain to you for the last couple of days and you finally understand that the al qaeda is a different cup of tea and should be destroyed,but we must not attack the trbals as this will lead to fractures in the military/govt.

How come that the AQ finds safe havens amongst such a huge population of tribal people, who are Pakistani citizens? Can a thief enter one's house where the inmates are sleeping within, without it being an 'inside' job?

Therefore, would it be wrong to reject the proposition that the tribal people are blemishless?

 

[josh21x]

When the Tribals dont understand the concept of Pakistan, but sees with everything in Tribals, Punjabi's, Lahori's and Uzbeks etc..
It is in the national interest of Pakistan to have all these idiots out of their country, cuz they dont agree to concept of Pakistan, they agree to the caliphate for which they are ready to make pakistan the battleground. Unless and until Pakistani's understand what is meant to have national identity and unity and agree to the fact that nationalism is the how this world works, even the islamic world, not some brotherhood of islamic nations. Iran, India and Oman are actively supporting the Balouch rebels. Where is the islamic brotherhood. There is no western hand here. There are so many other examples.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

When the Tribals dont understand the concept of Pakistan, but sees with everything in Tribals, Punjabi's, Lahori's and Uzbeks etc..
It is in the national interest of Pakistan to have all these idiots out of their country, cuz they dont agree to concept of Pakistan, they agree to the caliphate for which they are ready to make pakistan the battleground. Unless and until Pakistani's understand what is meant to have national identity and unity and agree to the fact that nationalism is the how this world works, even the islamic world, not some brotherhood of islamic nations. Iran, India and Oman are actively supporting the Balouch rebels. Where is the islamic brotherhood. There is no western hand here. There are so many other examples.

I am nitpicking here, so forgive me, but it is incorrect to suggest that "Pakistani's don't understand national identity". Certainly there are a few who may place an "Islamic loyalty" over one to Pakistan, but a large majority do comprehend the idea of "national identity"- Pakistan would not be in existence if this was not the case.

The world is complex though, as are human emotions, attachments and loyalties. It is not possible to have everyone on the same page on every issue. While that complexity does not mean that it is not possible for "national identity or loyalty" to exist, it does mean that different sections of the population would approach any issue from different perspectives and argue in favor of different solutions to those issues. That is what is happening in the national discourse in Pakistan right now - is an armed confrontation with the Taliban, in FATA and elsewhere, in our interests? What kind of society do we want? What kind of economic system do we want? One of the factors that really plays into the debate, sometimes irrationally, is the presence and involvement of the US, and the distrust of it amongst Pakistanis and Muslims - and it is unfortunate that sometimes that distrust gets to the point of overshadowing the discussion over what actually benefits Pakistani interests.

I think what we really need to cultivate, without exception, is the culture that differences need to be resolved with discourse, not violence, and in this regard a victory against Al Aeda, Taliban etc. is extremely important, but we need to keep the door for dialog open while attempting this, because at the end of the day, their "non-violent ideas" need to be a part of the national discourse as well.

 

[fatman17]

hey salim u r saying some good things but just one clarification.
no pak army personnel are being held hostage but FC men (para-military).

we have to deal with the taliban otherwise there will be no peace and the uzbeks and tajiks who have hijacked karzai govt will continue to create issues for pakistan (with quiet tacit encouragement by india)

 

[dabong1]

Do you indians Salim, Shivakumar really think i am going to waste my time answering your stupid questions....
You must be loving this,pakistani killing pakistani.
How i can not wait for that idiot mushy to get kicked out and the jihad in kashmir to start again with the help of the taliban.

 

[roadrunner]

Yeah and by kissing NATO/US *** somehow this will make pakistan more secure.

In fact I agree it will make it more secure. Let's take two situations. The US one would be removal of all the radicals, Al Q, and Taliban from Pakistan. Would this be a good thing for Pakistan, I think so. Let's take your situation, where Taliban, AlQ and other radicals are fostered in Pakistani society..Every time a woman shows a bit of ankle, there will be beheadings or suicide bombings for all who threaten the writ of the government, education will be listening to a Mullah all day instead of Physics, Chemistry, Maths etc. Which society sounds more secure to you. I have to say it's the US visioned one, not your one (whatever the US's real intentions for wanting this are, their version will lead to a safer Pakistan).

Yeah lets bomb the sh*t out them first and then ask them if they want to be "integrated into the Constitution".........you must be living in a fools paradise

Look, noone is "bombing the sht! out of them as you put it. If that were the case (which the US would do), you would see hundreds of civilian casualties a day. You do not, because a lot of Pakistani Army comes from that area. AM has already asked for some evidence of this, and you still haven't provided it except for the whispers you heard of some, no doubt ideologically similar, friend. My question is, why should we believe you or your friend?

Do you seriously think that the US would attack a nuclear pakistan backed by china?
When did i say al qaeda should not be attacked?
Pakistan is not iraq or afghanistan that you think would roll over to US firepower.
Yeah pakistan would get bombed but then a few nukes aimed at israel would soon put a stop to that.
Now let me guess you think that the isreali/jews do not control the US govt.

Clueless. Absolutely clueless. US would be able to flatten Pakistan to the ground. Afghanistan did not have much to lose in the way of institutions, Pakistan does. China will not do a thing to stop a US attack on Pakistan.

Of course it is not.....
What has the media done to your brain,is there any independent though in there?

If it were the media I was believing, no doubts I'd think it is a war on Islam too. That is the media POV. They would never mention oil. The independent media are the ones who talk about oil.

"deeply suspicious it is the foreign Al Q and Uzbeks who are doing these suicide bombings, and not the tribals. Do you finally understand the difference here"

Your asking me do i "understand the difference"...are you feeling okay? That what i have been trying to explain to you for the last couple of days and you finally understand that the al qaeda is a different cup of tea and should be destroyed,but we must not attack the trbals as this will lead to fractures in the military/govt.

The tribals are aiding AlQ. How you can say AlQ is bad, tribals should not be attacked, when they are aiding them, is silly. One day you're saying PA should let the US Army do the job with their "precision weapons" that have been not so precise in missile attacks so far, the next you're saying that we must only attack AlQ and not the tribals. Well, genius, that is exactly what PA are doing, they are attacking AlQ, but there are sometimes tribals defending them or mixed in with them. You think the US will be more lenient than PA are being?

Besides, tribals are are not unified on this. There are two camps to the tribals. Those that are pro-government (who are killed by the other side), and those that are pro-Taliban/AlQ. The pro-Taliban side has killed more tribals than the government has. If the tribals stop aiding the foreigners in the region, they will not be attacked. That is all the government are asking for.

 

[dabong1]

In fact I agree it will make it more secure. Let's take two situations. The US one would be removal of all the radicals, Al Q, and Taliban from Pakistan. Would this be a good thing for Pakistan, I think so. Let's take your situation, where Taliban, AlQ and other radicals are fostered in Pakistani society..Every time a woman shows a bit of ankle, there will be beheadings or suicide bombings for all who threaten the writ of the government, education will be listening to a Mullah all day instead of Physics, Chemistry, Maths etc. Which society sounds more secure to you. I have to say it's the US visioned one, not your one (whatever the US's real intentions for wanting this are, their version will lead to a safer Pakistan)..

The only radicals that need removing are the liberal western loving ,islam hating kind?
These radicals will want young woman to turn into sexual objects and degrade the morals of pakistan leading us back into jahliyaat.
Following this corrupt faith of consumerism and backward morality will lead you into the arms of satan.

Look, noone is "bombing the sht! out of them as you put it. If that were the case (which the US would do), you would see hundreds of civilian casualties a day. You do not, because a lot of Pakistani Army comes from that area. AM has already asked for some evidence of this, and you still haven't provided it except for the whispers you heard of some, no doubt ideologically similar, friend. My question is, why should we believe you or your friend..

So your telling me that there is free access to the world media in this area?
As i said before let the press go in and lets see whats going on.
The notion that the the pak army personell can get beheaded and chopped up , and this will not lead to retaliation is ridiculous.

Clueless. Absolutely clueless. US would be able to flatten Pakistan to the ground. Afghanistan did not have much to lose in the way of institutions, Pakistan does. China will not do a thing to stop a US attack on Pakistan. ..

Balls...you either have some or you dont.

If it were the media I was believing, no doubts I'd think it is a war on Islam too. That is the media POV. They would never mention oil. The independent media are the ones who talk about oil...

Read a bit more.

The tribals are aiding AlQ. How you can say AlQ is bad, tribals should not be attacked, when they are aiding them, is silly. One day you're saying PA should let the US Army do the job with their "precision weapons" that have been not so precise in missile attacks so far, the next you're saying that we must only attack AlQ and not the tribals. Well, genius, that is exactly what PA are doing, they are attacking AlQ, but there are sometimes tribals defending them or mixed in with them. You think the US will be more lenient than PA are being?

Besides, tribals are are not unified on this. There are two camps to the tribals. Those that are pro-government (who are killed by the other side), and those that are pro-Taliban/AlQ. The pro-Taliban side has killed more tribals than the government has. If the tribals stop aiding the foreigners in the region, they will not be attacked. That is all the government are asking for.

What a fool you are....your getting played like a pimp plays a hooker.

 

[roadrunner]

The only radicals that need removing are the liberal western loving ,islam hating kind?
These radicals will want young woman to turn into sexual objects and degrade the morals of pakistan leading us back into jahliyaat.
Following this corrupt faith of consumerism and backward morality will lead you into the arms of satan.

................but this won't mean these liberal bimbos and himbos will be murdering, cutting heads, whipping people for showing their arms, or all sorts of other radical pleasures.

The trouble is you see the extreme in everything because you yourself are an extremist. I know that Islam, as with any religion, has extremes, and a majority in between. The same exists in the West. You find sex objects, and the majority are not - it's a cultural thing - most Hijabed women would probably be sex objects in highly conservative regions where face showing is not the norm. You need to think in another mode, other than black and white.

If Pakistani society follows the West in some ways, it will be good, in others it will not. But if Pakistani society followed the extremists ways (it would need to be forced since there is no ideological support for them in mainstream Pakistani society), then Pakistan will have set itself on a path for regression and destruction.

So your telling me that there is free access to the world media in this area?
As i said before let the press go in and lets see whats going on.
The notion that the the pak army personell can get beheaded and chopped up , and this will not lead to retaliation is ridiculous.

The internet ! There are plenty of blogs that give different opinions, some neutral, some not. Use them, a wide selection of reputable news sources, and you'll get an indication of the truth. Use some common sense also. It's obvious Pak Army who are tribals themselves in many cases, are not going to act the way you claim they are acting. Al Q wants to schism Pak Army, I would say you're the brainwashed one here.

I agree if Pak Army get beheaded, there should be retaliation by Pak Army. Where did I say there should not be?

Balls...you either have some or you dont.

Meaning?

Read a bit more.

This must be your "I'm not sure how to respond, so I'll say something irrelevant" response.

What a fool you are....your getting played like a pimp plays a hooker.

Much in the same way you are by your own radicalistic icons. But I do know I'd prefer Pakistan society to not be radical, not that I want it to be Western. It would be better to be the same society as it is today.