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Taliban offer prisoner swap, threaten to kill troops

I remember my cousin's unit soldiers who were captured while fighting above the Friendship Tunnel in Dara Adam Khel, they fought till the last bullet and when their bullets finished, they went for hand to hand combat, as my cousin was the unit commander and he was in contact with the JCO till last through mobile phone, and some died and some were captured, what they did was terrible to these captured ones. .


this is extremely moving tale. On one hand one feels sorry and frustrated that these soldiers met their death at the hands of these people but then I think on a brighter side this would charge up the soldiers to fight this brutal enemy even harder. From time to time these fanatics have shown that their ideology & action have nothing to do with Islam.

the biggest challenge has been to sell the legitimacy of this war to our population & the Army personal i.e. that the people masquerading as soldiers of Islam are in fact the khawarij & followers of anti Christ. Driving their political ideology from Salafi/ Deobandi school of intolerance, utter disdain & disgust to other Muslims & nonMuslims. While people like Imran Khan& jamiat Islami will continue to live in denial & wont condemn the atrocities of terrorism, we now have a majority of people who are distancing themselves from Taliban ideology.

they (TTP) have proven from their actions that they have nothing in common with the ordinary Muslims who base their lives on the teachings & love of the Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
My main concern is our soldiers don’t hesitate & don’t fall pray to the tricks of Taliban and give them hell.
 
He has a point, you know. A military base isn't supposed to be captured by a militant group---as in, it is made in such a way that it is not overpowered by any terrorist or a threat to the military base. Whether it is weapons or personnel, the whole point of a base is to be an outpost in regions assigned to them out of suspected possible mishaps that can happen and for that the military should be there to avoid them.

Technically, a base whether in times of war or peace should have enough weapons and personnel to hold off the offending party until backup arrives. Now I have no idea how callous a government could get about its soldiers (especially in an unsafe condition like Pakistan's where militants bomb innocent people on a weekly/monthly basis) than this situation here where the base was under-manned, under-equipped and continued to operate like a civilian office.

The other possibility is rather alarming (if it has happened) that there were so many Taliban (in hundreds) that armed heavy machine guns, multi-barrel heavy Gatling guns, thousands of bullets fired from the base soldiers were not enough to stop this huge wave attack.

It was a two pronged attack with over 500 talibs with mortar support, those manning the post were short on ammo, HQ said that back up could not be sent and they should abandon the post.
The men gave their cover up themselves on request of HQ, may Allah keep them safe.
 
It was a two pronged attack with over 500 talibs with mortar support, those manning the post were short on ammo, HQ said that back up could not be sent and they should abandon the post.
The men gave their cover up themselves on request of HQ, may Allah keep them safe.
This is terrible! our government is answerable to your soldiers' families. I am surprised why gunships weren't dispatched on behalf of the soldiers who were trapped.

I understand that this was a surprise attack,but is it not the government's responsibility to be prepared for such situations especially when being involved in a war?

It is your right to demand answers from your leaders who are so callous about it. What motivation will your soldiers have if this is the thing shown to them?
 
This is terrible! our government is answerable to your soldiers' families. I am surprised why gunships weren't dispatched on behalf of the soldiers who were trapped.

The gunships must have been busy fighting Talibs in another area, we don't have enough helicopter gunships in our army to provide support to all our posts, and the ones we do have are Cobras!

Americans didn't give us better equipment to fight this war

I understand that this was a surprise attack,but is it not the government's responsibility to be prepared for such situations especially when being involved in a war?

It is your right to demand answers from your leaders who are so callous about it. What motivation will your soldiers have if this is the thing shown to them?

our resources are stretched thin which is why we didn't launch an operation into North Waziristan, and yet America wants us to "do more" instead of supplying us with adequate weapons like Armed Drones and Apache (or at least super cobra) gunships!
 
The gunships must have been busy fighting Talibs in another area, we don't have enough helicopter gunships in our army to provide support to all our posts, and the ones we do have are Cobras!

Americans didn't give us better equipment to fight this war



our resources are stretched thin which is why we didn't launch an operation into North Waziristan, and yet America wants us to "do more" instead of supplying us with adequate weapons like Armed Drones and Apache (or at least super cobra) gunships!

Your army is the 7th largest in the world :blink:! This is shocking as to how many extremists are there that can make hundreds of thousands of soldiers outnumbered.

Again blaming United States won't do. Most members here claim that you are equipped enough to fight your political threat, namely the Indians which are far more numerous and possess much more advanced weapons that Taliban could ever do.

If the forces can be deployed to tackle a much larger country in all aspects, then how is it that your military is stretched thin? Don't you think that your government is playing with your emotions and the lives of your soldiers?
 
Your army is the 7th largest in the world :blink:! This is shocking as to how many extremists are there that can make hundreds of thousands of soldiers outnumbered.

Our Armed forces are actually the 6th largest now. But the problem remains that we cannot post all our troops to the western front, a large presence has to be maintained at the east as well, so at the time out of 700,000 troops, only 140,000 are engaged against terrorists in the WoT. Now that they are spread out in much of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, we have an average of about 6 to 8 thousand men per Agency/District.

Again blaming United States won't do. Most members here claim that you are equipped enough to fight your political threat, namely the Indians which are far more numerous and possess much more advanced weapons that Taliban could ever do.

Agreed, we have a huge technological advantage over the Taliban but only as far as air support is concerned, as far as sub machine guns and RPGs are concerned, the Taliban have them too.

If the forces can be deployed to tackle a much larger country in all aspects, then how is it that your military is stretched thin? Don't you think that your government is playing with your emotions and the lives of your soldiers?

Like I said before, the army has been divided, a smaller part of the army is fighting the Taliban, we cannot increase troop presence in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and FATA so we are stretched thin, as for equipment it has also been divided and so we are short on equipment as well particularly gun ship helicopters, we don not have enough to fight the Taliban and BLA yet still keep some on the eastern border.
 
Our Armed forces are actually the 6th largest now. But the problem remains that we cannot post all our troops to the western front, a large presence has to be maintained at the east as well, so at the time out of 700,000 troops, only 140,000 are engaged against terrorists in the WoT. Now that they are spread out in much of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, we have an average of about 6 to 8 thousand men per Agency/District.

I have to agree with this.Though I would personally hate to see India as an aggressor,specially,in this particular time,but looking at it from Pakistani point of view I think Pakistan will have to maintain its military presence in the Indian front.I hope we can go for some more confidence building measures between India and Pakistan that will eventually relieve the pressure on the Eastern front of Pakistan.

Agreed, we have a huge technological advantage over the Taliban but only as far as air support is concerned, as far as sub machine guns and RPGs are concerned, the Taliban have them too.

Like I said before, the army has been divided, a smaller part of the army is fighting the Taliban, we cannot increase troop presence in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and FATA so we are stretched thin, as for equipment it has also been divided and so we are short on equipment as well particularly gun ship helicopters, we don not have enough to fight the Taliban and BLA yet still keep some on the eastern border.

The situation is desperate in the taliban dominated areas of Pakistan.Pakistan has a sizable and formidable Air Force.They must use it against the taliban fighters.Why the PAF is amassing the F-16/Blk-52s???To fight a full-scale war with India that may never happen??The PAF has about 65000 personnel,3000 pilots,and nearly 500 combat aircraft.Now while these combat aircrafts sit tight in their reinforced hangars and the 3000 pilots keep training for the dogfights and and air to air combats with the Indian jets that may never happen,the Pak Army personnel keep dying.

The taliban have significant knowledge of the terrain and maybe local support as well,which they use to the full extent to their own advantage.The only thing that can give Pak Army a significant advantage is close air support.But instead of doing that Pakistani Armed Forces spend their budget on buying the brand new radar,the sparkling new air to air missile and the mighty frigates.

I have seen many videos of Pak Army personnel fighting the taliban and have observed that they lack basic flak jackets,something that the Indian counter insurgency forces always use in these kind of missions.India too used air power to strike out the militants in Kasmir during Kargil war back in 1999.Now I m not comparing here,I m just giving examples from the subcontinent only...I say,take a page from Uncle Sam's book,use the PAF to its full extent,and clear out the taliban once and for ever.
 
@nForce..... ur last para is bull crap... do u want us to BOMB populated areas? and jets cant do jack ... can they support troop movement and actions at high speed? by the time a jet reaches talis scatter and hide in caves in places and thus no effect frm jets... we need Combat helis to support our troops ,MINIMIZE THE life losses which we could have achieved earlier,,,, and engage these bastards.

Also note the recent ops was the biggest after vietnam, in which helis were extensively used to transport troops and other roles.
 
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Your army is the 7th largest in the world :blink:! This is shocking as to how many extremists are there that can make hundreds of thousands of soldiers outnumbered.

Taliban are getting their recruits from Afghanistan and Uzbekistan, only some locals have joined! They fight a non-conventional warfare and can overrun a military outpost due to their large number! Even Americans had to withdraw from certain posts because they were about to be overran!

Again blaming United States won't do. Most members here claim that you are equipped enough to fight your political threat, namely the Indians which are far more numerous and possess much more advanced weapons that Taliban could ever do.

We requested the US to give is armed drones so that it would be easy for us to kill Taliban right on the spot instead of having to use unarmed drones and once enemy is spotted through unarmed drones we would have to call in PAF to bomb the militants position, due to the long process and due to the sound of the Jets the militants would have enough time to escape and disperse!

If the forces can be deployed to tackle a much larger country in all aspects, then how is it that your military is stretched thin? Don't you think that your government is playing with your emotions and the lives of your soldiers?

We have Cobra Gunships on the both the Eastern border and FATA/Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, and we only have 34 cobras in total!
So yeah it is stretched thin, you should look into Kakgeta's reply as well!
 
I have to agree with this.Though I would personally hate to see India as an aggressor,specially,in this particular time,but looking at it from Pakistani point of view I think Pakistan will have to maintain its military presence in the Indian front.I hope we can go for some more confidence building measures between India and Pakistan that will eventually relieve the pressure on the Eastern front of Pakistan.

Me too, I would like the sub-continent to prosper.

The situation is desperate in the taliban dominated areas of Pakistan.Pakistan has a sizable and formidable Air Force.They must use it against the taliban fighters.Why the PAF is amassing the F-16/Blk-52s???To fight a full-scale war with India that may never happen??The PAF has about 65000 personnel,3000 pilots,and nearly 500 combat aircraft.Now while these combat aircrafts sit tight in their reinforced hangars and the 3000 pilots keep training for the dogfights and and air to air combats with the Indian jets that may never happen,the Pak Army personnel keep dying.

The PAF is often called to carry out air strikes on confirmed target but we try to avoid getting aircraft involved because from the air, you cannot differentiate between frnd and foe, for example the case that occured earlier this year, when F-16s bombed a Talib compound, the locals gathered to remove the rubble and extract the dead bodies, the planes on the other hand made a pass over the compound and saw possibly a hundred odd people sifting through the rubble, they mistook them for talibs trying to rescue their comrades and dropped a 500 pounder on their heads as well killing well over 60 people, that is why we try and keep the PAF out of this, these people live in densely populated areas and we cannot afford collateral damage, this is a war of hearts and minds that we cannot afford to lose in the better interest of the world.

The taliban have significant knowledge of the terrain and maybe local support as well,which they use to the full extent to their own advantage.The only thing that can give Pak Army a significant advantage is close air support.But instead of doing that Pakistani Armed Forces spend their budget on buying the brand new radar,the sparkling new air to air missile and the mighty frigates.

We have to maintain our forces and keep them in such a position that they are never caught off guard, we do have close air support from the Cobras but the pilots are flying more sorties then they are supposed to which takes a toll on both the man and the machine, that is why I believe we need combat choppers on urgent basis.

I have seen many videos of Pak Army personnel fighting the taliban and have observed that they lack basic flak jackets,something that the Indian counter insurgency forces always use in these kind of missions.India too used air power to strike out the militants in Kasmir during Kargil war back in 1999.Now I m not comparing here,I m just giving examples from the subcontinent only...I say,take a page from Uncle Sam's book,use the PAF to its full extent,and clear out the taliban once and for ever.


We have many flak jackets as many as three are issued to each man, the problem is that we have some of the most suicidal, brave and stupid soldiers of the world, not exactly the best combination, as soon as they hear a gun shot, they TAKE OFF THEIR HELMETS AND BP JACKETS to allow for better vision and mobility, grab as many arms and ammunition as they can carry without falling to the ground and then fight like crazy, let me tell you an incident I am witness to, a young man was posted to Bajaur, his name Lt. Jahangir Marri, we were out on patrol, the Taliban ambushed our convoy, they suffered losses and they ran back into the jungle, now Jahangir Marri was a Baloch tribal, fearless, iron hearted, he couldn't control himself and ran off after the Taliban alone, we chased him but he kept going, we would pass over dead talibs, killed by Marri himself, finally we heard many guns fire bursts and soon we found Marri lying dead, he had single handedly killed 10 Taliban in his pursuit and had chased them for about half a kilometre.
 
^^^
Thanks a lot for the insightful information and hats off to the brave young man who was martyred for the cause of the nation....:tup::tup:
 
@nForce..... ur last para is bull crap... do u want us to BOMB populated areas? and jets cant do jack ... can they support troop movement and actions at high speed? by the time a jet reaches talis scatter and hide in caves in places and thus no effect frm jets... we need Combat helis to support our troops ,MINIMIZE THE life losses which we could have achieved earlier,,,, and engage these bastards.

Also note the recent ops was the biggest after vietnam, in which helis were extensively used to transport troops and other roles.

Sir, I agree that gunships in this case have a better use. The whole point of a problem to exist is that situation might not always be conducive to your convenience and therefore adaptation is the best in such a way that increases efficiency as much as possible. Now I take it that most of the Taliban are familiar with the terrain and therefore scatter soon into the caves as you say. But what I fail to understand is that a gunship is slower that a fighter in specifically this case and a fighter can conduct bomb runs in the blink of an eye.

Now as Kakgeta pointed out that you are not equipped with drones to instantly shoot the taliban down. The best way then is to maintain fighters on standby while the UAVs spot Taliban's location and once that is done, clear the armed fighter to take them out.


You see, there are very less options you have in this case. I know that some people live there and that they are susceptible to getting bombed, but there isn't any room exactly to maneuver here. Either your military sends agents in disguise to mark the houses that are of innocent civilians and unofficially evacuates them at the dead of night and immediately orders a strike, or you simple have to keep a stone on your heart and carpet bomb the whole region.

I know the latter sounds inhumane and I would never recommend it, but either way the loss of lives is not stemming at all be it men in uniform or men in casuals. Your military has been losing soldiers at such an alarming rate while Taliban seems to be like the heads of Hydra--you kill one, another two emerge. In such a case and a country with limited resources you have to take brutal actions that might otherwise be considered too violent or uncivilized.

United States and ISAF are also strung with their hands full in Afghanistan. They are as much in trouble as you are and the only difference is that they have a lot of money and firepower as compared to you. There's no point in demanding something the Americans won't give you. For example, in one another thread I read Pakistani members mentioning that how the funds that were supposed to be used against Soviets were put into your indigenous nuclear programme which was further highlighted with some good sources by a fellow countryman of yours.

If at all this has happened and the intelligence communities of both United States and yours know it, do you think that the Americans will make the same mistake twice? I doubt they would again even consider handing you critical technologies.

A more approachable solution for both you and the Americans would be on-field information sharing and combat coordination. Let the American drones and fighters operate in tandem arrangement of your own UAVs so that both get a real-time data on whether innocents were killed or Taliban were. This way, your citizens won't be needlessly incited by extremist preachers of fake killings and at the same time your country would be assured of getting rid of the militants.

Adversaries will always make your life difficult; it is upto you as to how you can reduce casualties and maximize gains through any form that is available at hand. When doors are closed, you have to consider something else and adapt fast.
 
let me tell you an incident I am witness to, a young man was posted to Bajaur, his name Lt. Jahangir Marri, we were out on patrol, the Taliban ambushed our convoy, they suffered losses and they ran back into the jungle, now Jahangir Marri was a Baloch tribal, fearless, iron hearted, he couldn't control himself and ran off after the Taliban alone, we chased him but he kept going, we would pass over dead talibs, killed by Marri himself, finally we heard many guns fire bursts and soon we found Marri lying dead, he had single handedly killed 10 Taliban in his pursuit and had chased them for about half a kilometre.

Salute to the Brave Sons of this motherland . and We all are indebted to these Brave Soliders they give there life so tht we are safe in our house ...........................

Long Live:pakistan:
 
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