Taliban Military Chief Mullah Baradar captured by Pakistan

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It's the other way round dude. Now there is proof that there are terrorists in Cities liek Karachi, now "they" won't shut up for sure. Stop Dreaming!

Their 'presence' in Pakistan is a different argument than them being deliberately 'harbored'.

 

[fatman17]

This "peace" deal wasn't a failure of Pakistani intelligence; it was a failure of Pakistani governance. How poorly did the Pakistani government serve the people of Swat that so many were willing to give the Taliban a try, hoping it would be an improvement?

We're getting off-topic. For Afghanistan and the coalition, the arrest of the Taliban's top commander is very good news, of course. What has been the reaction on the streets of Pakistan to this?

nada, niente, zilch, zero - i think u get my drift!

 

[Solomon2]

Mullah Baradar arrest reports propaganda: Rehman Malik

ISLAMABAD: Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Tuesday branded as “propaganda” reports that the top Taliban military commander had been arrested in a joint Pakistani-US spy operation.

Speaking to reporters outside parliament in Islamabad, the cabinet minister stopped short of either confirming or denying the media reports.

The New York Times and other US media cited US government officials as saying that US and Pakistani intelligence services arrested Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in Karachi “several days ago”.

“We are verifying all those we have arrested. If there is any big target, I will show the nation,” Malik said.

“If the New York Times gives information, it is not a divine truth, it can be wrong. We have joint intelligence sharing and no joint investigation, nor joint raids,” Malik added.

“We are a sovereign state and hence will not allow anybody to come and do any operation. And we will not allow that. So this (report) is propaganda,” he added.

Pakistan's government is a close US ally in the war on Al-Qaeda and the eight-year conflict against the Taliban in neighbouring Afghanistan, but the relationship is controversial in an increasingly anti-American country.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

^^^^
now what the hell is this???

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...pakistan+capture+taliban+top+commander--bi-04

is he trying to say we are 'sovereign', He must not have said that, Even if it was propaganda then be it, Did that person 'really' worked for FIA

 

[S-2]

"Unless you can conclusive show that the PA/ISI knew where these individuals were all that time, there is no dissemblance and denial."

I'd consider this as strong indication that the PA/ISI know exactly where Haqqani is located-

"A NERVOUS-LOOKING Pakistani soldier pointed a rocket-propelled grenade at our pickup truck in late January. The Taliban guard beside me loaded his rifle and ordered me to put a scarf over my face. A group of Pakistani civilians standing nearby moved out of the way, anticipating a firefight.

In the driver’s seat of our vehicle was Badruddin Haqqani, a senior commander of the Haqqani network, one of the Taliban’s most hard-line factions and the group that was holding me and two Afghan colleagues hostage in Pakistan’s tribal areas.

Obeying the guard, I covered my face. The soldier was in the lead vehicle of a Pakistani Army supply convoy in North Waziristan. After surveying the road, the soldier got back in his truck, and the convoy rumbled forward.

I hoped that the Pakistanis might somehow rescue us. Instead, I watched in dismay as Badruddin got out of the truck and calmly stood on the side of the road. As trucks full of heavily armed government soldiers rolled by, he smiled and waved at them.

After the convoy disappeared, Badruddin seemed amused.

“Do you know who that was?” he asked me.

“No,” I said, trying to play dumb.

“That was the Pakistani Army,” he said.

He explained that under a cease-fire agreement between the Taliban and the army, all civilians were required to get out of their cars when an army convoy approached. For Taliban vehicles, though, only the driver had to get out. The practice, I realized, allowed the Taliban to hide kidnapping victims and foreign militants from the Pakistani Army.

That morning, Badruddin arrived at the house in Miram Shah where I was being held with Tahir Luddin, an Afghan journalist, and Asad Mangal, our driver. We had been taken hostage on a reporting trip south of Kabul, Afghanistan, in November 2008 and moved to Pakistan’s tribal areas.

Badruddin announced that he was taking us out of town to a snow-covered hillside to shoot the final scene of a video that would be released to the news media. He was determined to make it look as though we were being held in the frigid mountains of Afghanistan, not in a bustling city in Pakistan.

As we continued our journey, we passed a half-dozen checkpoints that had been abandoned by the Frontier Corps, a militia that had been the Pakistani government’s primary security force in the tribal areas until 2001. Badruddin said that under the cease-fire agreement, only unarmed militia members could stand at the checkpoints.

As we drove, I occasionally saw members of the militia standing on the side of the road without guns. Some casually chatted with local tribesmen.

The trip confirmed suspicions I had harbored for years as a reporter. The Haqqanis oversaw a sprawling Taliban mini-state in the tribal areas with the de facto acquiescence of the Pakistani military. The Haqqanis were so confident of their control of the area that they took me — a person they considered to be an extraordinarily valuable hostage — on a three-hour drive in broad daylight to shoot a scene for a video outdoors.

Throughout North Waziristan, Taliban policemen patrolled the streets, and Taliban road crews carried out construction projects. The Haqqani network’s commanders and foreign militants freely strolled the bazaars of Miram Shah and other towns. Young Afghan and Pakistani Taliban members revered the foreign fighters, who taught them how to make bombs."

That was as of the early spring of 2009.

"Prime Minister Gillani has since reiterated, the Quetta Shura does not exist..."

I disagree. Abdul Ghani Baradur also disagrees.

Thanks.

 

[fatman17]

Mullah Baradar arrest reports propaganda: Rehman Malik

ISLAMABAD: Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Tuesday branded as “propaganda” reports that the top Taliban military commander had been arrested in a joint Pakistani-US spy operation.

Speaking to reporters outside parliament in Islamabad, the cabinet minister stopped short of either confirming or denying the media reports.

The New York Times and other US media cited US government officials as saying that US and Pakistani intelligence services arrested Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in Karachi “several days ago”.

“We are verifying all those we have arrested. If there is any big target, I will show the nation,” Malik said.

“If the New York Times gives information, it is not a divine truth, it can be wrong. We have joint intelligence sharing and no joint investigation, nor joint raids,” Malik added.

“We are a sovereign state and hence will not allow anybody to come and do any operation. And we will not allow that. So this (report) is propaganda,” he added.

Pakistan's government is a close US ally in the war on Al-Qaeda and the eight-year conflict against the Taliban in neighbouring Afghanistan, but the relationship is controversial in an increasingly anti-American country.

if u believe this guy, i got a bridge to sell u on the gobi desert. this stupid govt wont admit that 'joint-ops' r taking place - i've met a yank or two who when asked what are they doing in karachi give u a 'smile' back! you can put 2 and 2 i am sure!

 

[S-2]

"Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Tuesday branded as “propaganda” reports that the top Taliban military commander had been arrested in a joint Pakistani-US spy operation."

I've got to laugh...that or cry.

Amazing.

Thanks.

 

[S-2]

"if u believe this guy, i got a bridge to sell u on the gobi desert..."

Or ocean-front property in New Mexico!

Thanks.

 

[fatman17]

^^i mean these guys floating arnd karachi have crew-cuts and are completely 'buff' - i would not mess with these guys and the paks associated with them!

 

[Always Neutral]

"if u believe this guy, i got a bridge to sell u on the gobi desert..."

Or ocean-front property in New Mexico!

Thanks.

CAN YOU add my house Buckingham palace to the list.

Thanks

 

[kidwaibhai]

"No in pakistan the government still has legitimacy however scant its still there."

Unfortunately, that legitimacy is questioned by many right here every day. So too, I'm sure, the legitimacy of Afghanistan's government. However, in both cases the U.N., America, and the rest of the democratic world believe the evolving process of electoral democracy is more important than temporal matters such as who the respective presidents might currently be. Democracy provides for that possibilitiy of leadership change under an electoral mandate provided it's consistently exercised.

I would have believed that before the last election but everyone knows what happened in the recent one.

"In Pakistan we also have a pushtun party that is secular and can challenge the taliban and not fall into their nationalist trap that pushtuns are being ignored."

Here's a chart by ICOS identifying the 67 largest political parties in Afghanistan. Evidently, there are more than 100 total-

Afghan Political Parties-ICOS

Did you know that a member of Hezb-I-Islami sits in a cabinet position of Karzai's government? I also note that Afghan Milat is a licensed political party in Afghanistan. Finally, I know that you're aware that no element of the Afghan taliban have ever been elected to an office. Do you expect that the taliban would form a political party and compete through elections? I don't.

I understand that the ANP holds considerable sway in NWFP. However, I don't see how negotiating with Omar increases the prospects of Pashtun participation in Afghan electoral politics unless he renounces violence and embraces an electoral pathway.

That would be immensely helpful. The biggest deterrant to pashtuns engaging their considerable electoral weight in Afghanistan has been terror enforced by a gun. In the absence of such, I'd fully expect that pashtun participation would dramatically rise.

"As much as possible so that we dont have a hostile neighbor on our western flank"

Involvement in each other's internal affairs might not be possible. Engagement as a diplomatic responsibility of each country's Ministry of Foreign Affairs should happen continuously. Would you find that satisfactory?

Thanks.

I did not know that Hizb-ul-islami guy was in the cabinet maybe they are trying to tear haqqani away from the insurgency. The taliban is a political movement and if we start talking to them that will help calm the situation down .We can see how participating in the election process actually moderates political parties the two best examples of that would be the MQM that started violently but now is a mainstream party. The same thing can be seen with the ANP who in the eighties actually got training from the afghan government to sabotage Pakistan

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[Solomon2]

It was the Judges of the Shariah courts really bombarded the TTP for their previous highhandedness and started giving bold decisions in favor of public against TTP. This eventually irked the TTP and TNSM so much that they demanded their own people as judges, this is what started the rift.

The events that unfolded after the peace deal was enacted ended up turning the tide of the war against the Taliban as public support swung the other way -

I see nothing in these responses to contradict my assertion that what happened was a failure of Pakistani governance. All the ruling class has to offer is that they are better than the Taliban. That's a pretty low bar. No redress of grievances, no reduction in corruption, no improvement in justice from before the Taliban took over. Do you think the people of Swat will forget that forever?

now what the hell is this???

Yet another indication of Malik's integrity, I suppose. Very like Saddam's last information minister.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I'd consider this as strong indication that the PA/ISI know exactly where Haqqani is located-

No, that indicates that the PA may have known where Badruddin Haqqani was - I see no mention of the presence of Sirajuddin or Jalaludin Haqqani in that article.

Secondly, as pointed out in the article, and in my post, there have been large stretches of time when peace deals with both Afghan focused and Pakistan focused Taliban have been enacted, and the TTP leadership have done much the same - flout their presence in front of camera's and in front of military officials.

Once peace deals end, they go back into hiding.

So that little anecdote is no indication of 'duplicity and dissemblance' - we have a peace deal with the Tribes in that region to control the Taliban (flawed as it is), until the GoP has enough resources to spare to open another front if need be.

"Prime Minister Gillani has since reiterated, the Quetta Shura does not exist..."

I disagree. Abdul Ghani Baradur also disagrees.

Thanks.

Ghani Baradur was not in Quetta now was he ...

And your argument is fallacious - the lack of control over cross-border movement on the Pak-Afghan border has been well documented, with Pakistani officials complaining about Afghan guards ripping up Pakistan issued ID's and performing little to no checks on people coming through. With that little control over the border, no conclusive claim can be made about when someone came to Pakistan and for how long.

Just because XYZ gets arrested in Pakistan somewhere does not, by any yardstick, establish the existence of the 'Quetta Shura'. You can disagree as much as you want, but without evidence you continue to make an unsubstantiated claim, much as the US government and military do.

 

[S-2]

'Tis a rich day for "thank-yous"!

Everybody's got something fun to say and S-2 is buying!

Thanks.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I see nothing in these responses to contradict my assertion that what happened was a failure of Pakistani governance. All the ruling class has to offer is that they are better than the Taliban. That's a pretty low bar. No redress of grievances, no reduction in corruption, no improvement in justice from before the Taliban took over. Do you think the people of Swat will forget that forever?

You usually don't see anything to counter your blinkered view my friend.

My comments were very specific to the actual enactment of the Swat peace deal, in terms of being an action that was in consonance with the overwhelming public and political opinion at the time.

You have chosen to move on from that to a wider argument of whether the GoP can provide good governance - that it is too early to tell, since this is but early years in the return of elected government, and still early days in terms of restoring order, infrastructure and facilities to a violence wracked region.