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Taliban Military Chief Mullah Baradar captured by Pakistan

What I find funny between the exchanges of some Americans and Pakistani members is that instead of just enjoying a joint victory the behavior is like:

1) I deserve more credit for this capture
2) You have created nothing but problems in the war
3) The above proves that you suck and I rule

Pretty much what the Taliban want us to be doing.
 
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"Taliban are survivors in the mountains, they don't need much to survive they can operate and wage pitched battles and ambushes in some of the most harsh conditions with little clothing and boots and only a hollow cave as shelter, they can brave the storms."

Not all is etched in stone-

You might read this.

Thanks.:usflag:


Interesting, I think that may have been an isolated incident. Though it doesn't come as a surprise that humans beings who have inadequate clothing and boots have frozen in the Afghanistan winter. Of course, one can expect some fighters to have succumbed to the natural elements as some may be new recruits or some may not have the experience to bear the winter cold. However, I understand some wish not to add understanding to their reading...

Nonetheless, Taliban fighters are still survivors and they can certainly brave the storm the fact they have been doing so for many years now isn't going to change this about them, simply because some of their troops fell to the winter... I doubt some NATO soldiers with the same inadequate clothing could survive so long in the Afghanistan winter. Some of them already complain about the winter cold in spite of the vast luxuries and advantages they have, no offense intended...
 
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The Taliban aren't like the New York Mafia, make a few big arrest here and the house of cards fall, you can arrest men but not ideas as Peter Bergen is fond of saying. Hence, an ideological campaign against the Taliban is an effective way to bring them down, however the US doesn't have an answer except Mr. Democracy Hamid Karzai and some questionable elections.

Also, I've seen several people cite examples of Afghan support for Taliban waning...Well what has that done? Sure maybe Taliban control or influence has waned in some villages and provinces, however it hasn't punctured the Taliban. Operation Marjah is an interesting event so let's wait and see how the Taliban react, because you can bet your last Kalashinkov there going to fight back.

I remember 6 something years ago when Khalid Sheikh Mohd. was arrested and how the anlysts and military experts were praising that arrest and the critical blow it was suppose to deliver to AQ. Intelligence wise CIA must've gotten great deal of information out of him but the critical blow to AQ obviously didn't occur. But then of course, things are very different now, there is a great deal of cooperation between the US and Pakistani forces and intelligence agencies, also a full fledged Pakistan army operation on a possible faction of AQ, a fresh US led NATO offensive on Afghan side, so hopefully things will be different this time around in the aftermath of this important arrest and we do see more AQ big fish being apprehended or killed.
 
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"I think that may have been an isolated incident."

Of course you do. It quite likely is isolated. You'd be speculating without certainty though.

"Of course, one can expect some fighters to have succumbed to the natural elements as some may be new recruits or some may not have the experience to bear the winter cold."

You didn't make that clear in your earlier comments.

"However, I understand some wish not to add understanding to their reading..."

There's a reason I provided this modest mitigation. Myth often exceeds simple human frailty. Beware of mantras and wholesale claims. Battle and the environment are a harsh arbiter that don't often provide "do-overs".

Thanks.:usflag:
 
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Hi,

Seems like it has been decided to tell the taliban that it is time to end the confrontation. I very much doubt that the second in command of taliban will be facing any torture b y the ISI or otherwise---I think it is just a gesture showing that the time is coming up to end hostilities---.

A way needs to be found to talk to other commanders to bring an end to the hostilities.
 
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Hmmm ....

February 17, 2010

Arrest of Taliban Chief May Be Crucial for Pakistanis

By CARLOTTA GALL and SOUAD MEKHENNET

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistan’s arrest of the top Taliban military commander may be a tactical victory for the United States, but it is also potentially a strategic coup for Pakistan, officials and analysts here and in Afghanistan said.

Pakistan has removed a key Taliban commander, enhanced cooperation with the United States and ensured a place for itself when parties explore a negotiated end to the Afghan war.

The arrest followed weeks of signals by Pakistan’s military chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani — to NATO officials, Western journalists and military analysts — that Pakistan wanted to be included in any attempts to mediate with the Taliban.

Even before the arrest of the Taliban commander, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, a senior Pakistani intelligence official expressed irritation that Pakistan had been excluded from what he described as American and Afghan approaches to the Taliban.

“On the one hand, the Americans don’t want us to negotiate directly with the Taliban, but then we hear that they are doing it themselves without telling us,” the official said in an interview. “You don’t treat your partners like this.”


Mullah Baradar had been a important contact for the Afghans for years, Afghan officials said. But Obama administration officials denied that they had made any contact with him.

Whatever the case, with the arrest of Mullah Baradar, Pakistan has effectively isolated a key link to the Taliban leadership, making itself the main channel instead.

“We are after Mullah Baradar,” the Pakistani intelligence official said in an interview three weeks ago. “We strongly believe that the Americans are in touch with him, or people who are close to him.”

The official said the American action of excluding Pakistan from talks with the Afghan Taliban was making things “difficult.”

“You cannot say that we are important allies and then you are negotiating with people whom we are hunting and you don’t include us,” he said.

An American official in Washington who has been briefed on the arrest denied that there had been negotiations with the Taliban commander or that Pakistani intelligence engineered the arrest to ensure a role in negotiations. “That’s a conspiracy theory to which I give no credit, because it’s just not true,” the official said.

But whether or not that was Pakistan’s intention, it may be the effect.

The Taliban are longtime Pakistani allies in Afghanistan, and Pakistan has signaled its interest in preserving influence there.

Though the Obama administration has been divided on whether and how to deal with the Taliban, the Pakistani move could come at the expense of the Afghan government of Hamid Karzai and complicate reconciliation efforts his government has begun.

An American intelligence official in Europe conceded as much, while also acknowledging Mullah Baradar’s key role in the reconciliation process. “I know that our people had been in touch with people around him and were negotiating with him,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the issue.

“So it doesn’t make sense why we bite the hand that is feeding us,” the official added. “And now the Taliban will have no reason to negotiate with us; they will not believe anything we will offer or say.”

The arrest comes at a delicate time, when the Taliban are in a fierce internal debate about whether to negotiate for peace or fight on as the United States prepares to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan this year.

He is one of the most senior military figures in the Taliban leadership who is close to the overall Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, and has been one of the main Taliban conciliators, Afghan officials said.

It has been clear from interviews recently with commanders and other members of the Taliban in southern Afghanistan and in Pakistan that the notion of talks has divided the Taliban, but more and more want negotiations.

Some hard-liners are arguing to continue the fight. But in recent weeks the balance has been increasingly toward making peace, according to Hajji Muhammad Ehsan, a member of the Kandahar provincial council.

Officials in Kandahar, the former base of the Taliban government, have some of the closest links to the Taliban leadership, who are mostly from southern Afghanistan and are now living across the border in Pakistan.

“He was the only person intent on or willing for peace negotiations,” said Hajji Agha Lalai, former head of the government-led reconciliation process in the city of Kandahar, who has dealt with members of the Taliban leadership council for several years.

He and other officials in Afghanistan who are familiar with the Taliban leadership said Mullah Baradar’s arrest by Pakistani intelligence, and his interrogation by Pakistani intelligence officers and American agents, could play out in two ways. Mullah Baradar might be able to persuade other Taliban to give up the fight. Or if he is perceived to be mistreated, that could end any hopes of wooing other Taliban.

“Mullah Brother can create change in the Taliban leadership, if he is used in mediation or peace-talking efforts to convince other Taliban to come over, but if he is put in jail as a prisoner, we don’t think the peace process will be productive,” said Hajji Baridad, a tribal elder from Kandahar.

The Afghan government did not react to the news of Mullah Baradar’s arrest, an indication that it was upset at Pakistan’s action. Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the president, who has held indirect contacts with Mullah Baradar in the past, welcomed his arrest as serving a “death blow” to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

“We value the help of Pakistani officials in helping to arrest Mullah Baradar. This is actually a positive step, and we hope they will continue this kind of contribution,” he said.

But the former Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, who has led efforts on behalf of President Karzai to persuade the Taliban to negotiate an end to the war, attacked Pakistan’s action as destroying all chances of reconciliation with the rest of the Taliban leadership.

“If it’s really true, it could seriously affect negotiations and can gravely affect the peace process,” he said, speaking in Kabul, where he has resided since his release from the prison at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba several years ago. “It would destroy the fragile trust built between both sides and will not help with the peace process.”

Carlotta Gall reported from Islamabad, and Souad Mekhennet from Frankfurt. Taimoor Shah contributed reporting from Kandahar, Afghanistan; Sangar Rahimi from Kabul, Afghanistan; and Scott Shane from Washington.

Arrest of Taliban Chief May Be Crucial for Pakistanis - NYTimes.com

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Counterintelligence bust by the ISI vs joint ISI/CIA operation?
 
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Before I read the above article, I was going to comment that Pakistan should not turn over any Afghan Taliban leaders to the US or Afghanistan, and that interrogations should be held to the 'Geneva conventions' and the leaders should be treated well.

My first motive for the above was simply respecting our past allies with whom we had a strong relationship. The rise of the Taliban was because of Pakistan and so too shall their demise - no need to rub their face in the dirt.

My second motive was that through normal interrogations and arrests, Pakistan will have played its role in neutralizing these leaders and assisting the ISAF mission. By treating them well though, some influence might still be retained in terms of getting the Taliban to negotiate and lay down their arms.

It would appear from the article above that fair treatment to retain possible utility in future negotiations with the Taliban is the route that will be taken.
 
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On the 'joint operation':

I would be surprised if the 'jointness' went beyond intelligence gathering and sharing.

I do not think that the cooperation has reached levels where CIA teams would be operating under Pakistani command, and I do not believe Pakistan would allow an ISI team to operate under US command, on Pakistani soil at least. Having two teams under different sets of leadership on the same operation would appear to be highly dangerous and counterproductive.

The presence of CIA officials as observers is more likely though.
 
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Hmmm ....

February 17, 2010

Arrest of Taliban Chief May Be Crucial for Pakistanis

By CARLOTTA GALL and SOUAD MEKHENNET

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistan’s arrest of the top Taliban military commander may be a tactical victory for the United States, but it is also potentially a strategic coup for Pakistan, officials and analysts here and in Afghanistan said.

Pakistan has removed a key Taliban commander, enhanced cooperation with the United States and ensured a place for itself when parties explore a negotiated end to the Afghan war.

The arrest followed weeks of signals by Pakistan’s military chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani — to NATO officials, Western journalists and military analysts — that Pakistan wanted to be included in any attempts to mediate with the Taliban.

Even before the arrest of the Taliban commander, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, a senior Pakistani intelligence official expressed irritation that Pakistan had been excluded from what he described as American and Afghan approaches to the Taliban.

“On the one hand, the Americans don’t want us to negotiate directly with the Taliban, but then we hear that they are doing it themselves without telling us,” the official said in an interview. “You don’t treat your partners like this.”


Mullah Baradar had been a important contact for the Afghans for years, Afghan officials said. But Obama administration officials denied that they had made any contact with him.

Whatever the case, with the arrest of Mullah Baradar, Pakistan has effectively isolated a key link to the Taliban leadership, making itself the main channel instead.

“We are after Mullah Baradar,” the Pakistani intelligence official said in an interview three weeks ago. “We strongly believe that the Americans are in touch with him, or people who are close to him.”

The official said the American action of excluding Pakistan from talks with the Afghan Taliban was making things “difficult.”

“You cannot say that we are important allies and then you are negotiating with people whom we are hunting and you don’t include us,” he said.

An American official in Washington who has been briefed on the arrest denied that there had been negotiations with the Taliban commander or that Pakistani intelligence engineered the arrest to ensure a role in negotiations. “That’s a conspiracy theory to which I give no credit, because it’s just not true,” the official said.

But whether or not that was Pakistan’s intention, it may be the effect.

The Taliban are longtime Pakistani allies in Afghanistan, and Pakistan has signaled its interest in preserving influence there.

Though the Obama administration has been divided on whether and how to deal with the Taliban, the Pakistani move could come at the expense of the Afghan government of Hamid Karzai and complicate reconciliation efforts his government has begun.

An American intelligence official in Europe conceded as much, while also acknowledging Mullah Baradar’s key role in the reconciliation process. “I know that our people had been in touch with people around him and were negotiating with him,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the issue.

“So it doesn’t make sense why we bite the hand that is feeding us,” the official added. “And now the Taliban will have no reason to negotiate with us; they will not believe anything we will offer or say.”

The arrest comes at a delicate time, when the Taliban are in a fierce internal debate about whether to negotiate for peace or fight on as the United States prepares to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan this year.

He is one of the most senior military figures in the Taliban leadership who is close to the overall Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, and has been one of the main Taliban conciliators, Afghan officials said.

It has been clear from interviews recently with commanders and other members of the Taliban in southern Afghanistan and in Pakistan that the notion of talks has divided the Taliban, but more and more want negotiations.

Some hard-liners are arguing to continue the fight. But in recent weeks the balance has been increasingly toward making peace, according to Hajji Muhammad Ehsan, a member of the Kandahar provincial council.

Officials in Kandahar, the former base of the Taliban government, have some of the closest links to the Taliban leadership, who are mostly from southern Afghanistan and are now living across the border in Pakistan.

“He was the only person intent on or willing for peace negotiations,” said Hajji Agha Lalai, former head of the government-led reconciliation process in the city of Kandahar, who has dealt with members of the Taliban leadership council for several years.

He and other officials in Afghanistan who are familiar with the Taliban leadership said Mullah Baradar’s arrest by Pakistani intelligence, and his interrogation by Pakistani intelligence officers and American agents, could play out in two ways. Mullah Baradar might be able to persuade other Taliban to give up the fight. Or if he is perceived to be mistreated, that could end any hopes of wooing other Taliban.

“Mullah Brother can create change in the Taliban leadership, if he is used in mediation or peace-talking efforts to convince other Taliban to come over, but if he is put in jail as a prisoner, we don’t think the peace process will be productive,” said Hajji Baridad, a tribal elder from Kandahar.

The Afghan government did not react to the news of Mullah Baradar’s arrest, an indication that it was upset at Pakistan’s action. Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the president, who has held indirect contacts with Mullah Baradar in the past, welcomed his arrest as serving a “death blow” to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar.

“We value the help of Pakistani officials in helping to arrest Mullah Baradar. This is actually a positive step, and we hope they will continue this kind of contribution,” he said.

But the former Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, who has led efforts on behalf of President Karzai to persuade the Taliban to negotiate an end to the war, attacked Pakistan’s action as destroying all chances of reconciliation with the rest of the Taliban leadership.

“If it’s really true, it could seriously affect negotiations and can gravely affect the peace process,” he said, speaking in Kabul, where he has resided since his release from the prison at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba several years ago. “It would destroy the fragile trust built between both sides and will not help with the peace process.”

Carlotta Gall reported from Islamabad, and Souad Mekhennet from Frankfurt. Taimoor Shah contributed reporting from Kandahar, Afghanistan; Sangar Rahimi from Kabul, Afghanistan; and Scott Shane from Washington.

Arrest of Taliban Chief May Be Crucial for Pakistanis - NYTimes.com

============

Counterintelligence bust by the ISI vs joint ISI/CIA operation?
I think this is the most important article posted on the subject from the Pakistani point of view.

Was Baradar a reconciliatory Taliban? Pakistan stuck its leg into American reconciliation process with the Taliban by arresting him? If we hold him and not hand him over to the Afghans or Americans then it would seem so, since he could be used as our ticket to earn a seat on the Afghan - American - Taliban conference table.

On the other hand is he Mullah Baradar (as in Brother) or Bara Dar. These Mullahs are keeping weird names these days so either is likely. Will need to check out the Urdu spellings to be sure.
 
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I think this is the most important article posted on the subject from the Pakistani point of view.

Was Baradar a reconciliatory Taliban? Pakistan stuck its leg into American reconciliation process with the Taliban by arresting him? If we hold him and not hand him over to the Afghans or Americans then it would seem so, since he could be used as our ticket to earn a seat on the Afghan - American - Taliban conference table.

On the other hand is he Mullah Baradar (as in Brother) or Bara Dar. These Mullahs are keeping weird names these days so either is likely. Will need to check out the Urdu spellings to be sure.

Your meddling may cost my countrymen their lives, if it does don't come crying when that chicken comes home. If this arrest prevents peace there will be a lot more drone strikes and arms deals with India.
 
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Your meddling may cost my countrymen their lives, if it does don't come crying when that chicken comes home. If this arrest prevents peace there will be a lot more drone strikes and arms deals with India.

If Gall's theory is correct, the US should have taken Pakistan along to begin with, instead of working behind our backs, implying duplicity, especially given the US-Pak trust deficit.
 
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This is indeed a significant catch that has exposed our denials about the presence of the Taliban leadership on our soil. I wonder how could we deny the existence of Quetta Shura anymore. i am quite certain ever since the collapse of taliban that top leaders are hiding in Pakistan helped by our own intelligence agencies or their former agents who were fell victim to reverse brainwashing. this is impossible that our agencies didnt know about Mullah Biradar.
i am pretty sure Mullah Omar and others are also on our soil.
Biradar used our soil for eight years to kill hundreds of people and lead an insurgency in Afghanistan. The fact is we are responsible for whosoever uses our soil for criminal, terror, or illegal activities in other countries.
I agree with some writers here that Biradar's arrest was an indication from Pakistan to be given the right to say in the future political dispensation of Afghanistan. A kind of goodwill gesture.
 
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I think this is the most important article posted on the subject from the Pakistani point of view.

Was Baradar a reconciliatory Taliban? Pakistan stuck its leg into American reconciliation process with the Taliban by arresting him? If we hold him and not hand him over to the Afghans or Americans then it would seem so, since he could be used as our ticket to earn a seat on the Afghan - American - Taliban conference table.

On the other hand is he Mullah Baradar (as in Brother) or Bara Dar. These Mullahs are keeping weird names these days so either is likely. Will need to check out the Urdu spellings to be sure.

We used to call him Mullah Biradar. Biradar means brother.
 
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Your meddling may cost my countrymen their lives, if it does don't come crying when that chicken comes home. If this arrest prevents peace there will be a lot more drone strikes and arms deals with India.
First of all there is little possibility of peace with the Taliban, we've been there, done that.

Drone strikes Pakistanis have stopped caring about them, I think they are doing a good job, and killing the right sort of people. Civilian casualties have been kept at a controlled level now and the US is attacking Pakistan's enemies as well as its own.

Arms deal with India... well are you saying you'll cancel your nuclear deal, your F-18 proposal, your F-35 proposal if we help you make friends with the Taliban? Is that now on the table or just tantrums?
 
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