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Take the War to Pakistan

ssheppard

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PRESIDENT OBAMA’S decision on a timetable for withdrawal of American troops only makes official what everyone here has known for a while: the clock is ticking in Afghanistan. The Taliban have long recognized this, and many captured militants have reminded their interrogators that “you have the watches, but we have the time.”

As we quicken the pace, the top American commander here, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has repeatedly noted that there are many issues to focus on: building more competent Afghan Army and police forces, adopting more effective anticorruption measures and reintegrating “moderate” Taliban and other insurgent fighters into Afghan society and politics.

But perhaps the most difficult issue is largely outside of General McChrystal’s control (and got short shrift in President Obama’s speech at West Point): undermining the Taliban’s sanctuary in Pakistan. Thus far, there has been no substantive action taken against the Taliban leadership in Baluchistan Province, south of the Pashtun-dominated areas of Afghanistan. This is the same mistake the Soviets made in the 1980s, when they failed to act against the seven major mujahadeen groups headquartered in Pakistan.

This sanctuary is critical because the Afghan war is organized and run out of Baluchistan. Virtually all significant meetings of the Taliban take place in that province, and many of the group’s senior leaders and military commanders are based there. “The Taliban sanctuary in Baluchistan is catastrophic for us,” a Marine told me on a recent trip to Afghanistan’s Helmand Province, across the border from Baluchistan. “Local Taliban fighters get strategic and operational guidance from across the border, as well as supplies and technical components for their improvised explosive devices.”

Like a typical business, the Taliban in Pakistan have an organizational structure divided into functional committees. It has a media committee; a military committee; a finance committee responsible for acquiring and managing funds; and so forth. The Taliban’s inner shura, or governing council, exerts authority over lower-level Taliban fighters. It is composed of the supreme Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, his principal deputy, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, his military commander, Abdullah Zakir, and roughly a dozen other key leaders. Many Taliban leaders have moved their families to Baluchistan, and their children attend Pakistani schools.

Mullah Baradar is particularly important because he runs many of the shuras involving senior Taliban commanders, virtually all of which are in Pakistan. “Omar is reclusive and unpolished,” one Taliban figure recently said to me, “and has preferred to confide in a small number of trusted advisers rather than address larger groups.”

Yet Pakistan and the United States have failed to target them systematically. Pakistani Army and Frontier Corps forces have conducted operations in Pakistan’s tribal areas to the north, and the United States has conducted many drone strikes there. But relatively little has been done in Baluchistan.

The United States and Pakistan must target Taliban leaders in Baluchistan. There are several ways to do it, and none requires military forces.

The first is to conduct raids to capture Taliban leaders in Baluchistan. Most Taliban are in or near Baluchi cities like Quetta. These should be police and intelligence operations, much like American-Pakistani efforts to capture Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and other Qaeda operatives after 9/11. The second is to hit Taliban leaders with drone strikes, as the United States and Pakistan have done so effectively in the tribal areas.

The cost of failing to act in Baluchistan will be enormous. As one Russian diplomat who served in the Soviet Army in Afghanistan recently told me: “You are running out of time. You must balance counterinsurgency efforts in Afghanistan by targeting the leadership nodes in Pakistan. Don’t make the same mistake we did.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/o...l=1&adxnnlx=1259903504-vzAbGdy+p/hDrLEZtlLUPA
 
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PRESIDENT OBAMA’S decision on a timetable for withdrawal of American troops only makes official what everyone here has known for a while: the clock is ticking in Afghanistan. The Taliban have long recognized this, and many captured militants have reminded their interrogators that “you have the watches, but we have the time.”

As we quicken the pace, the top American commander here, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has repeatedly noted that there are many issues to focus on: building more competent Afghan Army and police forces, adopting more effective anticorruption measures and reintegrating “moderate” Taliban and other insurgent fighters into Afghan society and politics.

But perhaps the most difficult issue is largely outside of General McChrystal’s control (and got short shrift in President Obama’s speech at West Point): undermining the Taliban’s sanctuary in Pakistan. Thus far, there has been no substantive action taken against the Taliban leadership in Baluchistan Province, south of the Pashtun-dominated areas of Afghanistan. This is the same mistake the Soviets made in the 1980s, when they failed to act against the seven major mujahadeen groups headquartered in Pakistan.

This sanctuary is critical because the Afghan war is organized and run out of Baluchistan. Virtually all significant meetings of the Taliban take place in that province, and many of the group’s senior leaders and military commanders are based there. “The Taliban sanctuary in Baluchistan is catastrophic for us,” a Marine told me on a recent trip to Afghanistan’s Helmand Province, across the border from Baluchistan. “Local Taliban fighters get strategic and operational guidance from across the border, as well as supplies and technical components for their improvised explosive devices.”

Like a typical business, the Taliban in Pakistan have an organizational structure divided into functional committees. It has a media committee; a military committee; a finance committee responsible for acquiring and managing funds; and so forth. The Taliban’s inner shura, or governing council, exerts authority over lower-level Taliban fighters. It is composed of the supreme Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, his principal deputy, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, his military commander, Abdullah Zakir, and roughly a dozen other key leaders. Many Taliban leaders have moved their families to Baluchistan, and their children attend Pakistani schools.

Mullah Baradar is particularly important because he runs many of the shuras involving senior Taliban commanders, virtually all of which are in Pakistan. “Omar is reclusive and unpolished,” one Taliban figure recently said to me, “and has preferred to confide in a small number of trusted advisers rather than address larger groups.”

Yet Pakistan and the United States have failed to target them systematically. Pakistani Army and Frontier Corps forces have conducted operations in Pakistan’s tribal areas to the north, and the United States has conducted many drone strikes there. But relatively little has been done in Baluchistan.

The United States and Pakistan must target Taliban leaders in Baluchistan. There are several ways to do it, and none requires military forces.

The first is to conduct raids to capture Taliban leaders in Baluchistan. Most Taliban are in or near Baluchi cities like Quetta. These should be police and intelligence operations, much like American-Pakistani efforts to capture Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and other Qaeda operatives after 9/11. The second is to hit Taliban leaders with drone strikes, as the United States and Pakistan have done so effectively in the tribal areas.

The cost of failing to act in Baluchistan will be enormous. As one Russian diplomat who served in the Soviet Army in Afghanistan recently told me: “You are running out of time. You must balance counterinsurgency efforts in Afghanistan by targeting the leadership nodes in Pakistan. Don’t make the same mistake we did.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/o...l=1&adxnnlx=1259903504-vzAbGdy+p/hDrLEZtlLUPA

Seems omnious..is it achievable ?
 
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Seems omnious..is it achievable ?

NO !.

One must stop and appreciate the organization of Talibans.
Even if you weigh in the knowledge and expertise ISI may have lent.
I am most impressed to see how Talibans are able to


  • Arrange funds
    Communicate
    Disperse funds
    Coordination

Take for example a cost of Talib
Shalwar Qameez = 2 USD
Shoes (Chappal) = 0.5 USD
One rifle = 150 USD
Ammunition = 50 USD ( this too is offered to SOME)
Transporation = by foot, or by motor cycle (70cc engine, 125 at best)

Cost of gear on a single US soldier = cost of whole battalion of Taliban.

YET
Taliban successfully kick the united *** of america.

No strategy or technology can beat that !

and while this remains unbeaten, so will be Taliban
 
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NO !.

One must stop and appreciate the organization of Talibans.
Even if you weigh in the knowledge and expertise ISI may have lent.
I am most impressed to see how Talibans are able to


  • Arrange funds
    Communicate
    Disperse funds
    Coordination

Take for example a cost of Talib
Shalwar Qameez = 2 USD
Shoes (Chappal) = 0.5 USD
One rifle = 150 USD
Ammunition = 50 USD ( this too is offered to SOME)
Transporation = by foot, or by motor cycle (70cc engine, 125 at best)

Cost of gear on a single US soldier = cost of whole battalion of Taliban.

YET
Taliban successfully kick the united *** of america.

No strategy or technology can beat that !

and while this remains unbeaten, so will be Taliban

I do not think any of these issues should be a prob.

Given how loosely the areas they operate in have traditionally been administered and are even now GOP & Af govt have not been able to establish their writ in the region who is there to stop them ?

Add to this the wheels within wheels that exist in the region & govt responsible for the regions on both sides of the Durand Line.
 
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Have they not already done so?

Well said, and it has just begun in a slow-motion, picture abhi baki hai...

Unkil plans to stay for a long time in this region. This region holds a lot of significance to Unkil, he can monitor and control China and India. He has a roadway to central asia and its resources. He can influence central asian nations and give mirchi to Russia. All the talk of 'Exit' is for the audience back home in america.

India and China both support US in this present phase of taking war to Pakistan. India plays the bad cop and China plays the good cop. Of course, the clash of interests will start once this phase is over...
 
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If there was a Taliban Problem in Balochistan we would be focusing our efforts there instead of FATA. There is some degree of militancy there but it belongs to a whole different class of militants.

Some in Pakistan may argue they want to expand the war into Balochistan so its locals rise up against Pakistan to execute their plans of dismembering Balochistan as per that wretched American war school map of Pakistan?

Honestly when we hear of so little (relatively speaking) activity in Balochistan with concerns to Taliban (who are more focused upon getting from FATA to NWFP), it makes little to no sense to expanding the war beyond manageable terms. Its crazy, its stupid and without infinite resources, its unachievable.
 
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dont be surprised if there is an announcenent of JOINT DEVELOPMENT of newly found resources in pakistan by pakistan and america... americans are just bloodsuckers.....i think india has played it quite well till now to have good relation with america and still maintaining its relations with russia... and i dont think india would allow america to dictate it like they are doing pakistan... pakistan politicians should stand up now for their own good...
 
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Taking the war to Pakistan is simply not possible unless America thinks it can commit another 20 years to this war.

What needs to be done is this. America needs to send in more surges to Afghanistan and for once cease control of the entire territory. It needs to establish enough forces to police it and fight the Taliban at the same time. Afghanis cannot be expected to do it, till there isn't total calm in Afghanistan.

From the Pakistani side, we need some sort of separation between Afghanistan and Pakistan, free flowing of people (which includes terrorists) should not be allowed. No more refugees (through non-designated port/gateway areas). At the same time we need to keep hunting (as we very successfully are) the terrorists in all regions (from Quetta to Islamabad, from Muzaffarabad to Karachi).

America cannot come into Pakistan and do it for us nor would anyone trust it. Everybody in Pakistan would leave the fight with Taliban and start fending off against American forces. Already with the drone attacks there was extreme pressure on the government of Pakistan to treat it as an act of War from America. American narrowly dodged a bullet there. Putting boots on the ground or using its Airforce or missile attacks in urban areas would swing TV channels like Geo TV, Aj, Dawn into action and it won't take very long for the public opinion to turn very hostile.

Anyone who is suggesting this really does not have an understanding of Pakistanis.

I'm surprised that America is focusing so much about Taliban in Pakistan, but roots of the organization are in cities like Kandahar. America has not been able to claim its writ on any of the key Afghan cities for long. The Taliban terrorists that are caught in Pakistan are mostly from Afghanistan, like the chap from Paktia caught after the attack on the Lahore Police academy. The recruits from Pakistan are much less in numbers than from Afghanistan and other central asian states.

Then why are American analysts giving a wrong picture to their public by channeling focus on to Pakistan. To me, it seems like they need an excuse for their failure and they are gonna pin it all on Pakistan when they leave.

Pakistan has taken by Swat and several Tribal agencies and is holding it for 6 months now and is by all indications gaining more ground. We are doing well in the war. The only side under performing is America's side. They are not winning. We are.

The thing is, since Kayani came on, he figured one thing. Fight the war on your terms not the Talibans. Keep it manageable. He brought the Taliban's fight to Swat. Then the to the surrounding agencies and now for the Waziristans. The Taliban are desperately trying to do the same as what America wants. They are suicide bombing all over Pakistan in h opes that we'd refocus here n there. The Taliban then probably wants to see the war envelope expanded.

That alone should tell us all that we should not do what the Taliban want. America should follow the Pakistani model and take one Afghani province at a time, then commit long term forces to hold it. They should have done this since 2001, but even if they start doing things right, right now the same Pakistani successes can be mirrored in 5 more years (Afghanistan is a much larger zone).

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

Bottom line, America needs to stop telling us what to do, but ask us "What to do?"
 
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don,t these people learn from the past.
Obama has announced an extra 30,000 troops but at the same time announced 2011 as a date for pulling out troops (about election times), you don,t have to be a military strategist to understand what he is doing, trying to overwhelm the taliban with numbers, if it works then great, if it dosen,t then start pulling them out and put forward a rag-tag afghan army of iliterates and drug pushers and blame the failure on them and bush,s bit..h karzai.
History speaks for it self, embassy roof tops is where the departure will be.
inshallah!
 
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As much as some Pakistanis believe American butting out would be good for Pakistan, thats unlikely to happen. The Taliban know that they now have the ability to maintain their presence like roaches. No matter how many you zap, there will always be more of them.

It is going to be VERY easy for America to leave. Since 9/11 they have averted any terrorist attack on them. They have the infrastructure in place to prevent terrorists from crossing over. It is my guess that a terrorist is going to think like "Ok we can't get to the Americans, what the next best thing?" Kill the Pakistanis.

Pakistan's best strategy is to somehow make Americans in Afghanistan some sort of terrorist lightning rod and keep pushing the Americans to do more and win off the fight somehow. Our recent wins are only there since we are fighting on home ground and the Taliban have a hostile home territory as well.
 
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If there was a Taliban Problem in Balochistan we would be focusing our efforts there instead of FATA. There is some degree of militancy there but it belongs to a whole different class of militants.

Some in Pakistan may argue they want to expand the war into Balochistan so its locals rise up against Pakistan to execute their plans of dismembering Balochistan as per that wretched American war school map of Pakistan?

Honestly when we hear of so little (relatively speaking) activity in Balochistan with concerns to Taliban (who are more focused upon getting from FATA to NWFP), it makes little to no sense to expanding the war beyond manageable terms. Its crazy, its stupid and without infinite resources, its unachievable.

Asim,

the belief in US strategy circles is that though the war is being fought in FATA, NWFP..etc and also on the other side of Durand, they believe that the instructions come from Balochistan, more specifically Quetta, the famous Quetta Shura. Thus, it is obvious that sooner than later, the US will be under pressure to take the war to Balochistan(Quetta) and from there to Karachi.

Of course, you might not agree with the american assessment, but does that matter? US will do what it believes to be right.:usflag:
 
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Asim,

the belief in US strategy circles is that though the war is being fought in FATA, NWFP..etc and also on the other side of Durand, they believe that the instructions come from Balochistan, more specifically Quetta, the famous Quetta Shura. Thus, it is obvious that sooner than later, the US will be under pressure to take the war to Balochistan(Quetta) and from there to Karachi.

Of course, you might not agree with the american assessment, but does that matter? US will do what it believes to be right.:usflag:
American allegations in Balochistan have not been proven with evidence. It's just hearsay and till date Americans provide such information months after the fact.

Quetta is an urban city very much under the control of Government of Pakistan. If there was ever any intel provided Pakistan totally has the ability to cease control of the situation in Quetta. We haven't ruled out military action in any part of Pakistan where actionable intelligence may take us. But this has to be done by Pakistani forces without continuing the practice of "keep shooting till you hit one". The collateral damage in an urban area would be very high and an uprising similar to the one we saw in FATA, would be unstoppable in Balochistan. Quetta, IS one of the major cities of Pakistan, with a lot of urban population, educated folk who goto work for a living and not wield weapons.

If the Taliban are involved in Quetta, they are doing so covertly. American overt actions won't yield any benefit, intelligence would be poor and not to mention the Sardars would finally get the ammo they need to prove that Pakistanis are ready to hang the Balochis high n dry to an American onslaught.
 
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American allegations in Balochistan have not been proven with evidence. It's just hearsay and till date Americans provide such information months after the fact.

Quetta is an urban city very much under the control of Government of Pakistan. If there was ever any intel provided Pakistan totally has the ability to cease control of the situation in Quetta. We haven't ruled out military action in any part of Pakistan where actionable intelligence may take us. But this has to be done by Pakistani forces without continuing the practice of "keep shooting till you hit one". The collateral damage in an urban area would be very high and an uprising similar to the one we saw in FATA, would be unstoppable in Balochistan. Quetta, IS one of the major cities of Pakistan, with a lot of urban population, educated folk who goto work for a living and not wield weapons.

If the Taliban are involved in Quetta, they are doing so covertly. American overt actions won't yield any benefit, intelligence would be poor and not to mention the Sardars would finally get the ammo they need to prove that Pakistanis are ready to hang the Balochis high n dry to an American onslaught.

I agree that if they have intelligence then they can provide it to PA first, if they do not have intelligence what are they going to attack from drone.

There can be another case where they might have provided intelligence and no action was taken, in that case they are justified after few attempts.
 
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