Taiwan's TSMC overtakes INTEL in chip density | Madison

[Martian2]

The two largest semiconductor logic-chip manufacturing companies in the world are Intel and TSMC.

Logic chips are the most technologically-challenging to fabricate and sophisticated in design.

Samsung is dominant in the simpler memory chips, but has only a small presence in logic chips.

Taiwan's TSMC will begin mass manufacture of 7nm logic chips for Apple's A12 Processor in the second quarter of 2018.

TSMC to Hold Supply Chain Forum This Week to Announce 7nm Manufacturing Process Schedule | CTimes (December 5, 2017)
"Currently TSMC has already obtained exclusive production orders for Apple's new generation mobile chips A series, which will drive TSMC's production of 7nm. TSMC first plans to commence mass production of 7nm in the second quarter of [2018]...."

Intel says its 10nm technology is almost ready.

Thus, we will compare TSMC's 7nm to Intel's 10nm technology.

In an apples-to-apples comparison, where both companies' technologies are used to produce the same product (in this case SRAM), TSMC's density is 14.7% higher than Intel's best upcoming technology.

A TSMC 7nm six-transistor SRAM bit cell measures 0.0272 square micrometers.
An Intel 10nm six-transistor SRAM bit cell measures 0.0312 square micrometers.

"According to an EE Times article, the Intel engineer who presented the details of the company's 10-nanometer SRAM bit cells at the ISSCC admitted that Intel's technology was 'within 15 percent of the smallest reported 7-nm cell.'" (See citation below)
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Intel Admits That Its 10-Nano Technology Is Behind the Competition | Madison (February 19, 2018)

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

*Yawn*

Meanwhile in Santa Clara.

https://www.globalfoundries.com/technology-solutions/cmos/performance/7nm-finfet

7LP 7nm FinFET semiconductor technology offers the latest scaling and performance for the next era of computing applications in cloud/data center servers, CPU/GPU for VR, high-end mobile processors, wired and wireless networking, automotive ADAS and AI - DNN/CNN.

This technology provides world-class performance, power, area and cost advantages from 7nm scaling. Based on 3D FinFET transistor architecture and optical lithography with EUV compatibility at key levels, 7LP technology delivers more than twice the logic and SRAM density, and either >40% performance boost or >60% total power reduction, compared to 14nm foundry FinFET offerings.

7LP technology is supported by a full platform of foundation and complex intellectual property (IP), and includes the FX-7 application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) offering.

 

[Menthol]

Where is China x86 processor to be made with 7nm production?

 

[Martian2]

Where is China x86 processor to be made with 7nm production?

It costs $271 million to design a new 7nm SoC (system on a chip).

China's 28nm Zhaoxin x86 processor will need many years of sales to generate the profit to pay for more advanced nodes.

28nm --> 20nm --> 14/16nm --> 10nm --> 7nm

10nm Versus 7nm | Semiconductor Engineering (April 25, 2016)
"In fact, it costs $271 million to design a 7nm system-on-a-chip, which is about nine times the cost to design a 28nm device, according to Gartner. 'Not that many people can afford to (design chips at 10nm and 7nm) unless they have a high-volume runner and can see a return-on-investment,' said Samuel Wang, an analyst with Gartner."

 

[Viva_Viet]

And then whats next ?? TW is not allowed to join TPP and can not sell chips to TPP nations, so what can TW do with that chip ??? Mix it with rice and eat ???

 

[Martian2]

And then whats next ?? TW is not allowed to join TPP and can not sell chips to TPP nations, so what can TW do with that chip ??? Mix it with rice and eat ???

TPP only provides more preferential tariff treatment.

Taiwan can sell whatever it wants to any nation in the world under the WTO.

The main trade treaty in the world is the WTO. The TPP would only act as a supplement.

 

[Viva_Viet]

TPP only provides more preferential tariff treatment.

Taiwan can sell whatever it wants to any nation in the world under the WTO.

The main trade treaty in the world is the WTO. The TPP would only act as a supplement.

TPP nations will put a double or triple tariff or even much higher on TW's chips cos TW use trick (lower currency value) to boost export untill TW cant sell anything to TPP nations.

For other none TPP, they just simply dont know what is the use of TWs ships for the benefit of their nations.

 

[Martian2]

TPP nations will put a double or triple tariff or even much higher on TW's chips cos TW use trick (lower currency value) to boost export untill TW cant sell anything to TPP nations.

For other none TPP, they just simply dont know what is the use of TWs ships for the benefit of their nations.

I don't think Taiwan cares.

None of the current TPP nations can build a 7nm semiconductor logic chip. Japan's Fujitsu dropped out at 28nm, which was licensed from the United States and not indigenous Japanese technology.

Taiwan TSMC's main customers are Apple, Nvidia, HiSilicon, Broadcom, AMD, Qualcomm, etc. They are all located in the United States or China.

None of the TPP countries are major customers for TSMC's indigenous cutting-edge semiconductor technologies, which are all patented.

TSMC Ranked Top 10 U.S. Patent Assignee for 2nd Year (February 6, 2018)
"In terms of patent quantity, TSMC has accumulated over 30,000 patent grants worldwide as of the end of 2017. TSMC obtained an ever-increasing number of U.S. patents in 2017 and was ranked in the top 10 of U.S. patent assignees for the 2nd consecutive year."

 

[Viva_Viet]

I don't think Taiwan cares.

None of the current TPP nations can build a 7nm semiconductor logic chip. Japan's Fujitsu dropped out at 28nm, which was licensed from the United States anyway.

Taiwan TSMC's main customers are Apple, Nvidia, HiSilicon, Broadcom, AMD, Qualcomm, etc. They are all located in the United States or China.

None of the TPP countries are major customers for TSMC's indigenous cutting-edge semiconductor technologies.

US accuses TW for money manipulation, so Trump will force Apple to kill all TWs chips.

And if US rejoin TPP, then TWs chips are also dead in high tariff.

CN cant sell phones to TPP nations,then she also stop buying TWs chips .

 

[Martian2]

US accuses TW for money manipulation, so Trump will force Apple to kill all TWs chips.

And if US rejoin TPP, then TWs chips are also dead in high tariff.

CN cant sell phones to TPP nations,then she also stop buying TWs chips .

You can fantasize about any ridiculous scenario that you want.

Taiwan is in the WTO. Unless the United States pulls out of the WTO, Taiwan is in good shape.

Trump cannot force Apple to do anything. Trump is the President of the United States, but his authority primarily resides in foreign policy. Apple is a private corporation and protected by the US Constitution and the US Federal Court System.

If Trump tried to order Apple not to use TSMC chips, Apple can sue Trump at the US Supreme Court. Trump lacks the power to order any US company to do anything that they don't want to.

 

[Viva_Viet]

You can fantasize about any ridiculous scenario that you want.

Taiwan is in the WTO. Unless the United States pulls out of the WTO, Taiwan is in good shape.

Trump cannot force Apple to do anything. Trump is the President of the United States, but his authority primarily resides in foreign policy. Apple is a private corporation and protected by the US Constitution and the US Federal Court System.

If Trump tried to order Apple not to use TSMC chips, Apple can sue Trump at the US Supreme Court. Trump lacks the power to order any US company to do anything that they don't want to.
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Regarding foreign currency intervention by Taiwan's central bank, these allegations by the US against Taiwan began in the 1980s. It's just jaw-boning. Nothing has ever come of these complaints for 30 years.

Okay, but US accuses TW for money manipulation, so at least Trump can stop Apples products using TWs chips import to US.

 

[Martian2]

Okay, but US accuses TW for money manipulation, so at least Trump can stop Apples products using TWs chips import to US.

Regarding foreign currency intervention by Taiwan's central bank, these allegations by the US against Taiwan began in the 1980s. It's just jaw-boning. Nothing has ever come of these complaints for 30 years.

The United States recently removed Taiwan from the US currency manipulation watch-list.

U.S. Softens China FX Criticism, Cuts Taiwan From Watch List | Bloomberg (October 17, 2017)
"The department removed Taiwan from its watch list, citing a reduction in its currency intervention, but the U.S. will continue to urge the economy to increase transparency in its foreign-exchange interventions and reserve holdings."
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You still don't understand the US Constitutional form of government.

The United States is a country of laws. The US Constitution is the highest law in the country.

The Constitution specifically says that no person (or company) can be deprived of property without due process.

If Taiwan was manipulating its currency then the US government has limited options to address the issue that are within federal power.

Apple is a private company. The United States government CANNOT run a private company by ordering them to do anything. As long as Apple is not breaking the law, it can do whatever Apple wants. This is called the Business Judgment Rule.

Currency manipulation is completely unrelated to Apple's business decisions, which fall outside of the realm of federal power as defined by the US Constitution. The US president's powers are clearly delineated in the Constitution and has been clarified by rulings from the US Supreme Court and Federal Appeals Courts.

I can guarantee you that President Trump can't force Apple to make a specific business decision. That is Apple's right under the Constitution.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Regarding foreign currency intervention by Taiwan's central bank, these allegations by the US against Taiwan began in the 1980s. It's just jaw-boning. Nothing has ever come of these complaints for 30 years.

The United States recently removed Taiwan from the US currency manipulation watch-list.

U.S. Softens China FX Criticism, Cuts Taiwan From Watch List | Bloomberg (October 17, 2017)
"The department removed Taiwan from its watch list, citing a reduction in its currency intervention, but the U.S. will continue to urge the economy to increase transparency in its foreign-exchange interventions and reserve holdings."
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You still don't understand the US Constitutional form of government.

The United States is a country of laws. The US Constitution is the highest law in the country.

The Constitution specifically says that no person (or company) can be deprived of property without due process.

If Taiwan was manipulating its currency then the US government has limited options to address the issue that are within federal power.

Apple is a private company. The United States government CANNOT run a private company by ordering them to do anything. As long as Apple is not breaking the law, it can do whatever Apple wants. This is called the Business Judgment Rule.

Currency manipulation is completely unrelated to Apple's business decisions and falls outside of the realm of federal power as defined by the US Constitution. The US president's powers are clearly delineated in the Constitution and has been clarified by rulings from the US Supreme Court and Federal Appeals Courts.

I can guarantee you that President Trump can't force Apple to make a specific business decision. That is Apple's right under the Constitution.

Okay, so only rejoining TPP can help Trump kill TWs chips cos other TPP nations speciall JP will sue Apple for using none TPP's products.

Okay, thanks for your reply. I guess, under the greater and greater pressure of many Americans who wanna joinTPP, Trump will overthrowed soon if he doesnt join TPP .

At least Apple will not able to sell any products using TWs chips to TPP nations specially JP cos JP want TPP use her chips instead.

 

[Martian2]

Okay, so only rejoining TPP can help Trump kill TWs chips cos other TPP nations speciall JP will sue Apple for using none TPP's products.

Okay, thanks for your reply. I guess, under the greater and greater pressure of many Americans who wanna joinTPP, Trump will overthrowed soon if he doesnt join TPP .

At least Apple will not able to sell any products using TWs chips to TPP nations specially JP cos JP want TPP use her chips instead.

No. You keep pretending that the WTO doesn't exist.

The WTO sets a maximum tariff that is permitted.

The TPP says let's set a lower maximum tariff within our smaller exclusive club.

The TPP nations would have to withdraw from the WTO. Also, Apple is a US company. If Apple wants to employ TSMC's services, there is nothing that you can do. You would have to create a rule of 100% content within TPP nations. This is easily solved by TSMC setting up a manufacturing plant within the United States.

Finally, TSMC is a Taiwanese company but its majority stock owners are foreigners (probably US mutual funds). The US and European investment funds will not allow you to politically attack TSMC, because the western investors are the primary economic beneficiaries of TSMC's success.

Ready for a Clean Break with TSMC | Commonwealth (February 9, 2018)
"CommonWealth: TSMC’s management team does not hold a lot of the company’s stock, while foreign investors hold about 80 percent of the shares. After you retire, if a private equity company or some other entity wants to acquire a stake in TSMC or buy it outright, what will happen?

Morris Chang: If the price is good, then sell the stake to them. I feel this is another of Taiwan’s [bad] cultures, holding on at all costs."

 

[Viva_Viet]

No. You keep pretending that the WTO doesn't exist.

The WTO sets a maximum tariff that is permitted.

The TPP says let's set a lower maximum tariff within our smaller exclusive club.

The TPP nations would have to withdraw from the WTO. Also, Apple is a US company. If Apple wants to employ TSMC's services, there is nothing that you can do. You would have to create a rule of 100% content within TPP nations. This is easily solved by TSMC setting up a manufacturing plant within the United States.

Finally, TSMC is a Taiwanese company but its majority stock owners are foreigners (probably US mutual funds).

Ready for a Clean Break with TSMC | Commonwealth (February 9, 2018)
"CommonWealth: TSMC’s management team does not hold a lot of the company’s stock, while foreign investors hold about 80 percent of the shares. After you retire, if a private equity company or some other entity wants to acquire a stake in TSMC or buy it outright, what will happen?

Morris Chang: If the price is good, then sell the stake to them. I feel this is another of Taiwan’s [bad] cultures, holding on at all costs."

Sure,TPP dont break WTO rules, but we can make more policy, more rules to stop importing products from none TPP nations.

VN just created new vehicle import policy ( we call it 116 decree) . That decree doesnt break WTOs rule, but it immediately stop all cars imported from Indonesia to VN .

JP and other TPP nations can make the same decree like VN 116 decree that will stop all TWs chips but doesnt break WTOs rules, so that JP can sell her chips to make money.