Taiwan can respond to assassination of unarmed fisherman by the Philippines

[sdjd2013]

when a fisherman has been identified as such, you do not use deadly force on high seas to capture him, but only necessary force. If you use a dangerous weapon intending to debilitate the boat's engine, then you had better be sure you are a good shot, otherwise, the shooter is responsible for any consequences resulting therefrom. You cannot shoot at a boat indiscriminately, knowing there are four passengers onboard, and later claim self-defense when in fact the boat was traveling away from the shooter, and not towards him.

 

[3310]

I think there was really no intention of killing someone in this incident.
The Philippines knows that it would lose more if they would kill foreigners unintentionally/intentionally.

 

[sdjd2013]

since the shooter in this case works for PH government, the government itself is vicariously liable for the deeds of its agents. It is, therefore, not unreasonable to demand an apology from the state of PH, which came much later after the deadline for the second round of sanctions. Furthermore, the apology was qualified by words such as "Financial Assistance," implying pan handling, and "unintended" which is conclusory without evidence, and even before the government had conducted and/or published its investigation. These niceties, when ill-performed, may be an incendiary to cause harm rather than good. So, Filipinos think about your actions and words. Stop the hateful acts and messages, b/c the world is watching.

 

[longyi]

Indeed the world is watching! First thing has to go is this sign:

It'll do more harm to Philippines than good.

 

[3310]

too much hate and pride from ultra nationalists in this thread.

that sign is also shameful.

 

[sdjd2013]

Indeed the world is watching! First thing has to go is this sign:

It'll do more harm to Philippines than good.

I absolutely agree. This is sign is a step in the wrong direction. It boils me to see stuff like this, pouring salt on the wound. But, hey, it is a true reflection of the author's character.

 

[filipino_american]

Taiwan didn't lie.

According to UNCLOS which gives some rules on the law of the sea ( signed by both Taiwan and the Philippines), territorial waters where the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource would cover only 12 nautical miles. I haven't calculated the distance from the Balintang Islands myself, but if effectively it is 43 NM, then the location of the incident is out of the territorial water, but inside
the Philippines exclusive economic zone (which is within 200 nm), where the coastal nation has sole exploitation rights over all natural resources. Unfortunately it seems it is also in Taiwan's exclusive economic zone because the two countries are so close, and this created the conflict.

Now you are talking about UNCLOS

Did you know that there is a provision in UNCLOS that is called Archipelagic DOCRINE?

What is ARCHIPELAGIC DOCTRINE?



(a) "archipelagic State" means a State constituted wholly by one or more archipelagos and may include other islands;

(b) "archipelago" means a group of islands, including parts of islands, interconnecting waters and other natural features which are so closely interrelated that such islands, waters and other natural features form an intrinsic geographical, economic and political entity, or which historically have been regarded as such.

The length of such baselines shall not exceed 100 nautical miles, except that up to 3 per cent of the total number of baselines enclosing any archipelago may exceed that length, up to a maximum length of 125 nautical miles.

Under UNCLOS, only 5 ARCHIPELAGIC states are recognized which are the Philippines, Indonesia, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, and the Bahamas.

The sovereignty of an archipelagic State extends to the waters enclosed by the archipelagic baselines drawn in accordance with article 47, described as archipelagic waters, regardless of their depth or distance from the coast.

"The waters around, between and connecting the islands of the archipelago, regardless of their dimensions, form part of the internal waters of the Philippines."

The WATERS in between YAMI Island (Philippines INTERNATIONALLY recognized NORTHERNMOST TIP), BATANES Islands, Babuyan Islands, and the Island of LUZON including the BALINTANG CHANNEL are PART OF THE PHILIPPINE INTERNAL WATERS.

The Philippines has also 12NM TERRITORIAL SEA in addition to its archipelagic waters (Internal Waters between the islands)

Then another 200 EEZ.


RE: Overlapping EEZ

When an overlap occurs, it is up to the states to delineate the actual maritime boundary. Generally, any point within an overlapping area defaults to the nearest state.

Very very clear......

The incident happened within the Philippine Jurisdiction

And yet, the VIOLATOR (TAIWAN) asked for an APOLOGY.

SHAKE MY HEAD

 

[filipino_american]

when a fisherman has been identified as such, you do not use deadly force on high seas to capture him, but only necessary force. If you use a dangerous weapon intending to debilitate the boat's engine, then you had better be sure you are a good shot, otherwise, the shooter is responsible for any consequences resulting therefrom. You cannot shoot at a boat indiscriminately, knowing there are four passengers onboard, and later claim self-defense when in fact the boat was traveling away from the shooter, and not towards him.

As I've mentioned on my PREVIOUS POST,

the Philippines has arrested MANY MANY TAIWANESE and CHINESE illegal FISHERS without FIRING at them.

The Philippines can argue to the world that they PRACTICE Maximum Restraints based on the many accounts of PEACEFUL arrests of TAIWANESE and CHINESE proachers.

But this time, the VIOLATORS were VIOLENT, they tried to RAM the Philippine POLICE, then self-defense can be invoked.

Now what?

Still TAIWAN won't PLEAD that the VESSEL was in the Philippine waters.

Too much pride! SMH!

What if I say your opinion doesn't worth the paper it prints on. Condemn me to hell?

As long as my opinions hit your nerves (because they are true) then I'm happy.

 

[p3avi8tor69]

I absolutely agree. This is sign is a step in the wrong direction. It boils me to see stuff like this, pouring salt on the wound. But, hey, it is a true reflection of the author's character.

The kid who posted that ludicrous sign is a bot who never hesitates to lace his remarks with racial insults. His post are incomprehensible 95% of the time.

Such inflammatory rubbish only serves to isolate the Philippines even more. I am sure most Pinoys are good people but unfortunately here in PDF they are represented by morons who tarnish their country's reputation.

 

[sdjd2013]

As I've mentioned on my PREVIOUS POST,

the Philippines has arrested MANY MANY TAIWANESE and CHINESE illegal FISHERS without FIRING at them.

The Philippines can argue to the world that they PRACTICE Maximum Restraints based on the many accounts of PEACEFUL arrests of TAIWANESE and CHINESE proachers.

But this time, the VIOLATORS were VIOLENT, they tried to RAM the Philippine POLICE, then self-defense can be invoked.

Now what?

Still TAIWAN won't PLEAD that the VESSEL was in the Philippine waters.

Too much pride! SMH!



As long as my opinions hit your nerves (because they are true) then I'm happy.

There is no evidence of ramming. According to the "three-page" report from the coast guards onboard, they were chasing down the fishing boat, and shot at it b/c the boat had "tried to ram" the coast guard before the chase. First of all, "tried to ram" is a very subjective statement, and must be judged objectively by the video tape. Secondly, the shooting sounds more like retaliation than self-defense.

As I've mentioned on my PREVIOUS POST,

the Philippines has arrested MANY MANY TAIWANESE and CHINESE illegal FISHERS without FIRING at them.

The Philippines can argue to the world that they PRACTICE Maximum Restraints based on the many accounts of PEACEFUL arrests of TAIWANESE and CHINESE proachers.

But this time, the VIOLATORS were VIOLENT, they tried to RAM the Philippine POLICE, then self-defense can be invoked.

Now what?

Still TAIWAN won't PLEAD that the VESSEL was in the Philippine waters.

Too much pride! SMH!



As long as my opinions hit your nerves (because they are true) then I'm happy.

I am glad the Philippines has had a long track record of making arrests without a shooting incident before, but that does not justify, or excuse killing thereafter. Can you understand that?

There is no evidence of ramming. According to the "three-page" report from the coast guards onboard, they were chasing down the fishing boat, and shot at it b/c the boat had "tried to ram" the coast guard before the chase. First of all, "tried to ram" is a very subjective statement, and must be judged objectively by the video tape. Secondly, the shooting sounds more like retaliation than self-defense.



I am glad the Philippines has had a long track record of making arrests without a shooting incident before, but that does not justify, or excuse killing thereafter. Can you understand that?

Anyways, that is moot, b/c Taiwanese will fish where they like, as long as they are not within the economic zones of PH, whether disputed or not, and whether you guys like it or not.

 

[filipino_american]

The kid who posted that ludicrous sign is a bot who never hesitates to lace his remarks with racial insults. His post are incomprehensible 95% of the time.

Such inflammatory rubbish only serves to isolate the Philippines even more. I am sure most Pinoys are good people but unfortunately here in PDF they are represented by morons who tarnish their country's reputation.

So what is the difference of his post from your posts? Or the people in Taiwan yelling at and beating Filipinos?

China and Taiwan keep BLAMING the Philippines BUT they fail to realize that they are also to be blamed.

again,

If only CHINA/TAIWAN HAD ONLY educated their people about FOLLOWING INTERNATIONAL LAW then the incident wouldn't have happened.

I am not saying the poster is right or wrong, but

Make Sure Your Hands Are Clean Before You Start Pointing Fingers.

 

[sdjd2013]

I have heard isolated incidents of harassment and prevalent racial discrimination in Taiwan against Filipinos as a result of the shooting incident, but I can assure you that they are isolated incidents, b/c unlike China Taiwan actually respect human rights.

 

[filipino_american]

There is no evidence of ramming. According to the "three-page" report from the coast guards onboard, they were chasing down the fishing boat, and shot at it b/c the boat had "tried to ram" the coast guard before the chase. First of all, "tried to ram" is a very subjective statement, and must be judged objectively by the video tape. Secondly, the shooting sounds more like retaliation than self-defense.



I am glad the Philippines has had a long track record of making arrests without a shooting incident before, but that does not justify, or excuse killing thereafter. Can you understand that?



Anyways, that is moot, b/c Taiwanese will fish where they like, as long as they are not within the economic zones of PH, whether disputed or not, and whether you guys like it or not.

The Philippines tried to ARREST the Taiwanese vessel peacefully but the vessel tried to evade INTERNATIONAL LAW. The vessel even tried to ram the Philippine vessel. Then SELF DEFENSE was JUSTIFIABLE. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

and also,

the TAIWANESE vessel was in the Philippine Waters. But TAIWAN WONT ADMIT. Can you understand that?

 

[sdjd2013]

The Philippines tried to ARREST the Taiwanese vessel peacefully but the vessel tried to evade INTERNATIONAL LAW. The vessel even tried to ram the Philippine vessel. Then SELF DEFENSE was JUSTIFIABLE. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

and also,

the TAIWANESE vessel was in the Philippine Waters. But TAIWAN WONT ADMIT. Can you understand that?

I am sorry, your statements are not supported by any evidence, and therefore your conclusions are obviously self-serving. So, I cannot agree with you.

I am sorry, your statements are not supported by any evidence, and therefore your conclusions are obviously self-serving. So, I cannot agree with you.

As far as trespassing, I believe Taiwan has rights over 200 nm south of its southern most tip, which includes part of the territory claimed by PH, so I don't understand why ppl like you unilaterally insist on trespassing?

"Because we committed an internationally wrongful act, we have the obligation under international law to apologize and provide compensation to the victim. This, though, is the full extent of our liability. Taiwan’s demand that in addition, we enter into a fishing agreement with it is bereft of legal merit."

Lessons learned from the Taiwan shooting incident

All of you missed the point. Trespass, if one in fact has occurred, does not justify killing. The quote from Attorney Roque, Jr.'s article is very clear on that, but he also misses the point that a fish treaty is necessary, whether warranted by law or not, to ensure the safety of fisherman everywhere. Without an agreement, Taiwan will have no choice but to continue to use military forces to protect the lives of its citizens. I don't understand why that is hard to digest for the Filipinos, majority of whom seem to support the shooting, apparently more out of hatred for the Chinese race than any protection of sovereignty rights.

I AM REPOSTING THE ABOVE

 

[filipino_american]

I am sorry, your statements are not supported by any evidence, and therefore your conclusions are obviously self-serving. So, I cannot agree with you.



As far as trespassing, I believe Taiwan has rights over 200 nm south of its southern most tip, which includes part of the territory claimed by PH, so I don't understand why ppl like you unilaterally insist on trespassing?



I AM REPOSTING THE ABOVE

Oh, also based on MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY occasions of ARREST of illegal TAIWANESE proachers

it is very safe to say that:



1. Taiwanese people DO NOT FOLLOW INTERNATIONAL LAW

2. Taiwanese Government DO NOT EDUCATE her people where to FISH LEGALLY

3. Taiwanese people has a LONG HISTORY of violating and NOT respecting other NATION'S SOVEREIGNTY

AND YET THEY BLAME THE PHILIPPINES FOR EVERYTHING


ENOUGH SAID