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Their is only one "virus". The NATO. Our western defence system are full integrated in NATO system. Meanwhile, their is no way for western system to operate without NATO system. It would be very difficult to decouple the NATO system.
 
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Their is only one "virus". The NATO. Our western defence system are full integrated in NATO system. Meanwhile, their is no way for western system to operate without NATO system. It would be very difficult to decouple the NATO system.

As a German, are you against the NATO (excluding this case)?
 
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Greece can buy Russian, S.Korea can co-devolep and co-produce with Russia and yet suddenly when Turkey does this its directly a "Virus" for the NATO infrastructure. Pfff Dont make me laugh, what pathethic attemp by the media.
 
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Dont get these kind of articles serious. Reality is US cut budget defenses Europe almost spending zero only a few countries. With this articles they are trying lobbying thats. But one point is trues best anti missiles produced by Israil even they are catching 25 percent. For now anti balistic is a fairy tale. If you are under balistic thread.probaby attacker will launch more then one missiless.

One other fairy tale is x-band radar none of nato countries controls it only US that is undestandble.

Then you can ask why did we asked for patriots mostly political. It is a muscle show NATO declared if Turkey will under fire they will act as all countries attacked. Turkey is part of NATO hosting 90 b61 tactical nukes and only Turkish planes can capable of these bombs in Europe. I think it is clear what it means. These articles only for business. Dont underastimate Turkeys power Cyprus bought s300 we said no they deployed into greece.

Dont get these kind of articles serious. Reality is US cut budget defenses Europe almost spending zero only a few countries. With this articles they are trying lobbying thats. But one point is trues best anti missiles produced by Israil even they are catching 25 percent. For now anti balistic is a fairy tale. If you are under balistic thread.probaby attacker will launch more then one missiless.

One other fairy tale is x-band radar none of nato countries controls it only US that is undestandble.

Then you can ask why did we asked for patriots mostly political. It is a muscle show NATO declared if Turkey will under fire they will act as all countries attacked. Turkey is part of NATO hosting 90 b61 tactical nukes and only Turkish planes can capable of these bombs in Europe. I think it is clear what it means. These articles only for business. Dont underastimate Turkeys power Cyprus bought s300 we said no they deployed into greece.
 
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Copying a defence Product is normal if you dont copy it will be silly a few examples

German stg44-AK74
German V2- not even copy same rocket take first Photo of earth from space by US
MBT-70 evaulved two products US M1A1 and leopard Korean K1 evaulved from M1A1 K2 evaulved from K1. Altay MBT evaulved from K2
And long list continues.

This is defence industry No one cares Copyright. Probably because of live or death. I think Copyrights can be ignored. And i will say this again US have best dominant air force in the world they dont need AA missiles but China needs badly. Probably HQ9 better.
The problem is HQ-9 wasn't "copied" from S-300. HQ-9 in the middle, S-300 in the right:
16127404.jpg


Certainly some elements were borrowed from the S-300, but the tracker actually has more lineage with the Patriot.
 
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The problem is HQ-9 wasn't "copied" from S-300. HQ-9 in the middle, S-300 in the right:

Certainly some elements were borrowed from the S-300, but the tracker actually has more lineage with the Patriot.

I dont see a problem. Copy or not copy. If copied it is not a shame opposite it can be proud intelligance agencys spending billions of dollars and one of their job stealing schmatics and technology of other countries defence products. If some one build something you need and if you can reach tech it will fit your needs. And it will save time and fund. It is nature of defensive industry. Actually every nation puts a brick to civilizitation wall. We learned gun powder from Chinise. Used first guns and mortars in Europe. Europe learned guns and mortars from us. And they improved it. No one inventing whell every time :)
 
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The problem is HQ-9 wasn't "copied" from S-300. HQ-9 in the middle, S-300 in the right:
16127404.jpg


Certainly some elements were borrowed from the S-300, but the tracker actually has more lineage with the Patriot.

I dont see a problem. Copy or not copy. If copied it is not a shame opposite it can be proud intelligance agencys spending billions of dollars and one of their job stealing schmatics and technology of other countries defence products. If some one build something you need and if you can reach tech it will fit your needs. And it will save time and fund. It is nature of defensive industry. Actually every nation puts a brick to civilizitation wall. We learned gun powder from Chinise. Used first guns and mortars in Europe. Europe learned guns and mortars from us. And they improved it. No one inventing whell every time :)

I believe both of you basically are telling the same thing; the Chinese took the best they could from both worlds (S-300 & Patriot), thus didn't need to re-invent the wheel and could put all their efforts on improving what already was invented instead - something many industries has done for ages.
 
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Defense tender shows allies’ unwillingness to share

Turkey's decades-old NATO allies are comparatively uninterested in sharing their defense technology with the country, a fact revealed in statements made by top Turkish officials in response to criticism from these allies over Turkey's pick of a Chinese company following a tender for the joint building of a missile defense system for Turkey.

“China made the best bid. Moreover, China agreed to co-production [of the missile system]. Other countries said no to co-production,” Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said on television at the beginning of the month in response to the criticism from the US and NATO.

Turkey announced at the end of September that it had selected the Chinese FD-2000 long-range missile defense system from the China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) in a tender in which firms from the US, EU countries, Turkey's allies in NATO and even a Russian firm also bid. The Chinese company not only agreed to a much lower price, but also to a generous sharing of technology, a condition Turkey, aiming to lessen its dependence on imports in the defense industry, had sought as part of the tender. The sharing of technology is also key to the country's plans to develop its own long-range missile defense system in the future.

Elaborating on the importance of this sharing of technology for Turkey, Erdoğan added: “We need to eliminate our deficiencies in this area. If we do, our deterrence capabilities will increase.”

Turkey based its selection in the tender on three major criteria: the sharing of technology, that is, co-production of the system in Turkey; the ability of the proposed system to meet Turkey's operational needs; and price. In addition to agreeing to co-production, the Chinese firm offered the best cost: around $3 billion. Other firms' offers are believed to be at least $4 billion, if not higher, with much less or even no sharing of technology.

US and NATO officials have repeatedly expressed concern over Turkey's choice, maintaining that the Chinese missile defense system will not be interoperable with NATO's collective defense capabilities. The US is seemingly also bothered by the fact that the Chinese company awarded the tender is under US sanctions for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act (INKSNA).

“We have conveyed our serious concerns about the Turkish government's contract discussions with a US-sanctioned company for a missile defense system that will not be inter-operable with NATO systems or collective defense capabilities,” Jen Psaki, spokesperson for the US Department of State, said at a press meeting at the beginning of October.

Other critical remarks were made by the head of NATO on Oct. 8. “What is important for us is that the system acquired by the individual country ... must be able to work and operate with the systems in other countries. I expect that Turkey will also comply with that,” NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen told Reuters.

Although both the US and NATO have been trying to keep pressure on Turkey to change its mind, the Chinese offer is notably better than those of the other participants in the tender. “The local contribution [to the production of the missile system in the Chinese offer] will be more than 50 percent, including offset agreements,” Murad Bayar, head of the Undersecretariat for the Defense Industry (SSM), stated at a press briefing at the beginning of the month.

The US was seemingly not generous in terms of sharing technology as a partner in the F-16 fighter project Turkey launched at the end of the 1980s, either. Until recently, Turkey had continued to buy new versions of F-16s from the US. “We just did the assembly [in the F-16 project],” Erdoğan Karakuş, a retired three-star general in the Turkish Air Forces (THK), told Sunday's Zaman.

Seemingly in an effort to appease its NATO allies, Turkish officials have stated on a number of occasions that its announced selection was not final but only an indication that the Chinese firm had taken first place in the tender and would therefore be the first firm with which Turkey would launch negotiations on a final contract.

“All three missile defense systems on the shortlist would meet Turkey's needs, but the Chinese offer is comparatively much better [in terms of price and the sharing of technology],” Bayar confirmed at the briefing at SSM headquarters.

Apparently disappointed by the lack of interest of Turkey's NATO allies in sharing their know-how in defense technology, Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said on a CNN Türk television program the previous week, “If our NATO allies would take these points into consideration, then there would be no problems.”

Dismissing claims that the choice for the Chinese systems also represents a change in Turkey's axis towards the East, Davutoğlu underlined the importance for Turkey to locally produce such systems, which explains why Turkey has been insistent on a substantial share for local companies in defense projects. “It's not possible to act independently for countries which haven't developed their own defense industry,” Davutoğlu said, also adding: “Turkey can no longer go on importing such systems.”

Bayar of the SSM made clear at the meeting that failure in negotiations for the drawing up of a final contract with the Chinese firm does not seem to be very likely. “Most probably, a contract will be signed with the first firm [on the shortlist],” Bayar said, while adding a cautious note: “But this is a sophisticated project. Problems may also arise.”

A total of four missile defense systems, which equals a total of 288 missiles in 12 firing units, will be obtained by the deal, through which the missiles will be jointly produced in Turkey thanks to the transfer of technology. Underlining the importance of the transfer of technology, Bayar said at the press meeting, “We will be locally producing almost the whole missile in the project.”

The Chinese offer is also the best on the delivery time front. All the four systems will be delivered to Turkey within four years of signing the contract. Bayar expects the process to be completed quite fast. “In the coming six months, the process [leading to the signing of the contract] may be completed [with the Chinese firm] and the project can get started,” the SSM head said.

Turkish officials dismissed comments that the Chinese system will not work in harmony with NATO radar in Turkey. “We don't have any misgivings regarding interoperability of the Chinese system with our joint operations in NATO,” Bayar said, affirming that the interoperability issue would be settled thanks to an integration server to be produced by a local company.

US and NATO objections, on the grounds of the interoperability problem, to Turkey opting for a Chinese missile defense system are not well founded, either, as Turkish officials have repeatedly emphasized that there will be no problems in that regard. Furthermore, as noted by Bayar, not only Greece, also a NATO member, but also some former Soviet-bloc countries which are present-day NATO members already have in place Russian missile defense systems such as the S-300.

The fact that the Chinese CPMIEC is under US sanctions is not a great issue for Turkey, as it concerns the US's own policy and is not something all countries need to respect as a binding measure. “This is not a NATO or UN criterion, not part of international law,” said Bayar, who underlined, to alleviate concerns in NATO, that no information about the alliance's defense systems would be communicated to China through Turkey's use of the Chinese missile system.

Should contract negotiations fail, Turkey would take on negotiations with the second company on the shortlist, Eurosam, an Italian-French consortium, which is in the game with the SAMP/T Aster 30. Raytheon and Lockheed Martin of the US were in third place in the tender with its Patriot missile system, while Russia's Rosoboronexport with its S-300 system was eliminated due to the very high price.

source:Defense tender shows allies
 
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The Queen Elizabeth, Bill Clinton and President Ataturk died and went all to hell. The Queen Elizabeth said: "I miss England. I wanna call England and see how everybody is doing there"....She called and talked for about 5minutes...then she said: "Well, Devil, how much do I owe you???? the Devil goes: Five million dollars...five million dollars!!! she made him a check and went to sit back on her chair....
Bill Clinton was so jealous; He starts screaming: me too; I wanna call the United States; I wanna see how everybody is doing too...He called and talked for about 2 minutes; then he said: well, Devil how much do I owe you???? the Devil goes: ten million dollars.....ten million dollars!!!!!! He made him a check and went to sit back on his chair.....
Ataturk was extremely jealous too...he started screaming and screaming: I wanna call Turkey too, I wanna see how everybody is doing there too, I wanna talk to the pashas,to the Talat pasha and others, I wanna talk to everybody.....He called Ankara Turkey and he talked for about twenty hours. He was talking and talking and talking....then he said: well, Devil how much do I owe you???? the Devil goes: one dollar.....only one dollar!!!!! the Devil goes: well, from hell to hell it's local.
 
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NATO concerned over technical misfit in Turkey's Chinese missile deal


22 October 2013 /MUSTAFA EDİB YILMAZ, BRUSSELS
NATO spokeswoman Oana Lungescu signalled on Monday that the organization could not be more worried if the Chinese-made air defense system Turkey ponders to purchase is "interoperable" with the Alliance's integrated defense capabilities.

At a press conference before a meeting of defense ministers from NATO countries, the official was asked to rate NATO's concern about the prospect of Turkey acquiring a Chinese air- and missile-defense system on a scale of one to five. Lungescu, after explaining that all NATO member states are sovereign in such decisions, said: "It is a decision for Turkey to make. What matters to us is the interoperability of this [Chinese] equipment with NATO's connected defense system. And in that regard, that number is five."

Turkey announced on Sept. 26 that it had chosen the FD-2000 missile-defense system from China Precision Machinery Import-Export Corporation (CPMIEC) over rival systems from Russian, US and European firms. However, the Chinese firm is under US sanctions for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act.

The main competitors for the tender were the Patriot missile long-range air-defense system, produced by US partners Raytheon and Lockheed Martin; Russia's Rosoboronexport with its S-400 system; China's HQ9, exported as the FD-2000; and the Italian-French Eurosam and its SAMP/T Aster 30.

Washington recently expressed its concerns to Turkey, an ally and NATO member, over its decision to opt for the Chinese system. China dismissed the West's concerns, saying in early October that the US and others were needlessly politicizing a purely commercial deal.

Following criticism of its decision, Turkey had said it will likely sign the deal with the Chinese firm, though its decision is not yet final. Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç said the main reason Turkey chose the Chinese bidder was its bid, which undercut all others, and the company's willingness to co-produce the missile systems in Turkey. China's bid stood at $3.4 billion.

On mid-October Defense Minister İsmet Yılmaz said that Turkey's interests are the government's priority. Out of the offers made by the four firms bidding in the tender, he said, China's bid better suited Turkey's needs: technology transfers, co-production, quick delivery and a reasonable price. The defense minister claimed that the ministry chose China and that the decision was not the business or problem of any other country.

source: NATO concerned over technical misfit in Turkey's Chinese missile deal - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news
 
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I'm thinking... "seriously how come they mention S-400 it's not even offered, how can a bloody NATO official be so misinformed!"
 
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Turkish PM rebukes NATO over China missile deal criticism

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan rebuffed intensified international criticism over Turkey’s choice to agree a missile defense deal with China, a day after NATO declared that it wanted a say in the decision-making process.

“Nobody has the right to overshadow our understanding of independence,” Erdoğan said Oct. 23 before departing for Kosovo.

The prime minister’s statement came a day after NATO Chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen’s remarks expressed the hope that NATO’s reaction would be taken into account before Turkey makes its final decision over the long-range anti-missile system.

Rasmussen stressed that NATO was completely aware that deciding which equipment to purchase is a national decision, but also stressed Turkey’s international commitments. “It’s of utmost importance that the system that a nation plans to acquire can work and operate together with similar systems in other Allied nations,” he said.

However, ignoring NATO’s stance on the issue, Erdoğan said there was no problem with the deal in terms of Turkey’s national preferences.

President Abdullah Gül also said Oct. 23 that Turkey gave utmost importance to its relations with allies, but also it was “natural to consider national interests in such decisions.”

“There are many technical issues here, they were all calculated and this result came out,” Gül told reporters in Ankara. “The missiles to be bought and their integration are technical issues. No one should misinterpret it. Besides, there are similar applications in other NATO member states.”

Erdoğan said Turkey and China had already conducted an exercise with NATO’s knowledge and everything is proceeding by the book, adding that many points, including the operational capabilities of the missiles, the price and the option of joint production, had been taken into consideration when making the decision.

“The joint production clause is rated highly by us. All offers [in defense tenders] are studied on a points system, and I, my Chief of General staff and my Defense Minister look at them, we are briefed and then make a decision,” he said.

The decisions are mostly about authorizing the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) for talks, the prime minister added.

“We tell the undersecretariat to start negotiations on certain conditions, and then we make the final decision based on the talks. Currently the Chinese offer has the highest points. Undersecretariat officials and China are currently working on it,” Erdoğan said, adding that comments by NATO or any country would not have effect on the decision.

“Many NATO member states have Russian weapons in their inventories. If NATO is so sensitive about the issue it would remove the weapons from Russia in NATO’s own inventory,” he said.

The Turkish government’s decision to start negotiations with a Chinese firm for the co-production of the $3.4 billion missile defense system has triggered serious concerns from NATO and among member countries, particularly the United States. The fact that the Chinese company, China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp’s (CPMIEC), is under U.S. sanctions also complicates the situation.

Source: POLITICS - Turkish PM rebukes NATO over China missile deal criticism

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I was personally waiting for this day. Now the Sultan has talked, it's over now.
 
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As an independant country, Turkey shall have right to buy what he wants. If USA offers Patriots system with 3 billions USD and TOT, they might be the winner. Turkey is not a vessel state do what Nato tells. USA is acting like high school bully in this one, make me wanna throw up. It's like you have to pay Mercedez Price to get a Ford becasue you have a very close relationship with the Ford franchiser.
 
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