BronzePlaque
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well you said "Chinese crap" for HQ-9 in another thread..So one would assume that you have some knowledge about it as you claim its crap, right?
T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion
- Thread starter Lankan Ranger
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well you said "Chinese crap" for HQ-9 in another thread..So one would assume that you have some knowledge about it as you claim its crap, right?
atatwolf
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It is crap compared to western technology. You don't have to be expert to know this. Only people with thick skull and small brain can't understand this. haha. You don't need to be expert for this.
S10
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You have specification and test data to back that up? Only people with thick skull and small brain can't back up their claim. Your argument in a nutshell:
"This is crap. No proof needed because only stupid people will disagree with me."
I don't know if you're insulting Chinese weapon systems or the Turkish military minds behind the purchase.
atatwolf
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Turkish military wants to buy cheap Chinese .... not because of best tech but because it is dirt cheap, plus there are option for tech transfer that is it and everybody knows it. Just read the reports dummy. At least Turkey respects copyright and patents, that cannot be said of China, you just copy without shame. Look at this:
Don't you think Turkey can copycat like the Chinese do and still are doing? No **** you look the same. Turkey can copy too, but we don't for reasons you don't understand or don't want to understand. The F-35 and the Chinese dummy might look the same but do you think that the specs are equally high? Why do you think that Western countries don't want to do business with China? Because you don't respect copyright and patents.
S10
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Turkish military wants to buy cheap Chinese .... not because of best tech but because it is dirt cheap, plus there are option for tech transfer that is it and everybody knows it. Just read the reports dummy. At least Turkey respects copyright and patents, that cannot be said of China, you just copy without shame. Look at this:
Don't you think Turkey can copycat like the Chinese do and still are doing? No **** you look the same. Turkey can copy too, but we don't for reasons you don't understand or don't want to understand. The F-35 and the Chinese dummy might look the same but do you think that the specs are equally high? Why do you think that Western countries don't want to do business with China? Because you don't respect copyright and patents.
You still haven't provided anything substantial to back up your claim. Going off about copyright and patent will not distract anybody.
So what data do you have from Turkish military test? I am really interested.
atatwolf
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I don't have time to convince Chinese Chini that their copy and paste products are inferior to western products. Last time: Turkey didn't choose Chinese tech because it was topself but because it was cheapest.
T-123456
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So had it with your brain,you just dont get it do you?
The thing is not to fking make enemies or to bash/troll people or countries but to be realistic.
You should try to post with knowledge and be a bit rational.
Why you think you get banned all the time?
Birak artik negatief olmayi.
Baykuş
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The Patriot systems that's currently stationed in Turkey actually belongs to Germany and Netherlands (IIRC), so there's no guarantee that they are even willing to sell their own stuff to us. Besides, why should we buy Patriot systems when we have chosen the HQ-9 for our T-LORAMIDS project? How will it benefit us?
Saithan
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There is no need for that, besides those are from different countries and not US. As long as there is trouble in Syria they'll be positioned there and Turkey can continue with a stand-alone system like HQ9. I'm guessing we'll have 1-2 years to come up with something. We could use the present situation in Syria to speed up the process maybe.
Copying a defence Product is normal if you dont copy it will be silly a few examples
German stg44-AK74
German V2- not even copy same rocket take first Photo of earth from space by US
MBT-70 evaulved two products US M1A1 and leopard Korean K1 evaulved from M1A1 K2 evaulved from K1. Altay MBT evaulved from K2
And long list continues.
This is defence industry No one cares Copyright. Probably because of live or death. I think Copyrights can be ignored. And i will say this again US have best dominant air force in the world they dont need AA missiles but China needs badly. Probably HQ9 better.
Saithan
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Chinese air defenses in Turkey a ‘virus’ for NATO
Defense officials from NATO member states have described any potential Turkish effort to integrate China-made long-range air and anti-missile defense system into NATO’s overall air defense architecture as a “virus” within the allied system and a “possibly most futile effort.”
“NATO’s own command and control system that ‘mashes’ input from allied networks is far more important than a Chinese air defense system in Turkey,” said one defense attaché from a leading NATO member state. “There is no place for China within this critical system. We would not wish to see a virus in a complex system.”
A NATO ambassador in Ankara said Turkey was disillusioned with the idea of making the Chinese-built air defense architecture NATO-operable. “I have no idea why the Turks do not see the simple fact that the alliance’s security threat perception in the next 20 years is based on China. Air and missile defense will be the top defense issue in the foreseeable future, with China being under the magnifier.”
According to Western defense officials and analysts, the central problem will be the difficulty to connect the proposed Chinese air defense assets to NATO’s critical Identify Friend or Foe (IFF) system that operates on “Mode 5,” a code that enables allied radar systems and aircraft to recognize whether an unknown aircraft is friendly or an enemy.
“Turkey has its own efforts to build the transponder part of the entire IFF system, but a fully functioning system would require the interrogator part too. To make the Chinese system NATO-operable, the Turks would require Mode 5 codes and I see no reason why the [U.S.] National Security Agency should give a nod to this crazy idea,” said one U.S. defense official.
Top Turkish officials said the controversial air and missile defense system Turkey intends to buy from a Chinese manufacturer would be automatically integrated with NATO assets stationed in Turkey.
Turkish officials see no problem
When asked about possible NATO objection to the idea of any such integration, Turkish Defense Minister İsmet Yilmaz said “he sees no problem with this.”
Murad Bayar, head of the Undersecretariat for Defense Procurement, said full integration with NATO assets was an explicit condition in the contract for the planned air defense system.
“As part of this program, a Turkish defense company will be tasked with integrating the air defense system into a network operated by the Turkish Air Force. That integration will mean integration with NATO assets, too, since the Turkish system is fully integrated with the NATO system,” Bayar said.
The much-debated Chinese bid from China Precision Machinery Export-Import Corp. (CPMIEC), which won the tender Sept. 26, came in at $3.44 billion; the initial contract price was estimated at $4 billion.
The Chinese contender defeated a U.S. partnership of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, offering the
Patriot air defense system; Russia’s Rosoboronexport, marketing the S-300; and the Italian-French consortium Eurosam, maker of the SAMP/T Aster 30.
Under the program, dubbed T-LORAMIDS, Turkey will start contract negotiations with CPMIEC, the front-runner of the competition. If these talked fail, contract negotiations with the Eurosam consortium, the second best offer according to a grading of bids, will begin, according to Bayar. The U.S. Patriot system was ranked third. Bayar said the Russian option had been eliminated entirely.
Turkey’s own technological capabilities for air defense integration looks limited. Recently, a Turkish military software and electronics firm, Ayesas, failed to integrate about 14 Turkish radars into NATO’s Air Command and Control System. The job was later given to NAMSA, NATO’s procurement agency for allied requirements.
“Whether the Chinese air defense system can detect any ballistic missile coming from the enemy remains a big question mark,” a European defense analyst said. “Without tracking information coming from a NATO-U.S. radar like the X-band system in Kürecik, the Chinese system may either not detect a ballistic missile at all, or detect it when it is too late.”
Turkish officials say the primary function of the proposed air defense architecture would be air defenses, with an anti-missile defense coming as secondary.
DEFENSE UPDATE - Chinese air defenses in Turkey a
Defense officials from NATO member states have described any potential Turkish effort to integrate China-made long-range air and anti-missile defense system into NATO’s overall air defense architecture as a “virus” within the allied system and a “possibly most futile effort.”
“NATO’s own command and control system that ‘mashes’ input from allied networks is far more important than a Chinese air defense system in Turkey,” said one defense attaché from a leading NATO member state. “There is no place for China within this critical system. We would not wish to see a virus in a complex system.”
A NATO ambassador in Ankara said Turkey was disillusioned with the idea of making the Chinese-built air defense architecture NATO-operable. “I have no idea why the Turks do not see the simple fact that the alliance’s security threat perception in the next 20 years is based on China. Air and missile defense will be the top defense issue in the foreseeable future, with China being under the magnifier.”
According to Western defense officials and analysts, the central problem will be the difficulty to connect the proposed Chinese air defense assets to NATO’s critical Identify Friend or Foe (IFF) system that operates on “Mode 5,” a code that enables allied radar systems and aircraft to recognize whether an unknown aircraft is friendly or an enemy.
“Turkey has its own efforts to build the transponder part of the entire IFF system, but a fully functioning system would require the interrogator part too. To make the Chinese system NATO-operable, the Turks would require Mode 5 codes and I see no reason why the [U.S.] National Security Agency should give a nod to this crazy idea,” said one U.S. defense official.
Top Turkish officials said the controversial air and missile defense system Turkey intends to buy from a Chinese manufacturer would be automatically integrated with NATO assets stationed in Turkey.
Turkish officials see no problem
When asked about possible NATO objection to the idea of any such integration, Turkish Defense Minister İsmet Yilmaz said “he sees no problem with this.”
Murad Bayar, head of the Undersecretariat for Defense Procurement, said full integration with NATO assets was an explicit condition in the contract for the planned air defense system.
“As part of this program, a Turkish defense company will be tasked with integrating the air defense system into a network operated by the Turkish Air Force. That integration will mean integration with NATO assets, too, since the Turkish system is fully integrated with the NATO system,” Bayar said.
The much-debated Chinese bid from China Precision Machinery Export-Import Corp. (CPMIEC), which won the tender Sept. 26, came in at $3.44 billion; the initial contract price was estimated at $4 billion.
The Chinese contender defeated a U.S. partnership of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, offering the
Patriot air defense system; Russia’s Rosoboronexport, marketing the S-300; and the Italian-French consortium Eurosam, maker of the SAMP/T Aster 30.
Under the program, dubbed T-LORAMIDS, Turkey will start contract negotiations with CPMIEC, the front-runner of the competition. If these talked fail, contract negotiations with the Eurosam consortium, the second best offer according to a grading of bids, will begin, according to Bayar. The U.S. Patriot system was ranked third. Bayar said the Russian option had been eliminated entirely.
Turkey’s own technological capabilities for air defense integration looks limited. Recently, a Turkish military software and electronics firm, Ayesas, failed to integrate about 14 Turkish radars into NATO’s Air Command and Control System. The job was later given to NAMSA, NATO’s procurement agency for allied requirements.
“Whether the Chinese air defense system can detect any ballistic missile coming from the enemy remains a big question mark,” a European defense analyst said. “Without tracking information coming from a NATO-U.S. radar like the X-band system in Kürecik, the Chinese system may either not detect a ballistic missile at all, or detect it when it is too late.”
Turkish officials say the primary function of the proposed air defense architecture would be air defenses, with an anti-missile defense coming as secondary.
DEFENSE UPDATE - Chinese air defenses in Turkey a
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