T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion
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cabatli_53
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Bayar gave a political signal to this question. He said "We have vision to fullfill our requirements with domestic systems/network. TF-2000 will also be operated under same network. It will be a serious platform."
Seyfullah
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Well thats the first time i am using this forum first time.
1- HQ 9 is good system because we dont have any long range AA Before 1 is better then 0
2- A Chinese Product for AA may be better then US system because US dont need AA they have superior air force and no one can match with them i think they have 12-13 aircraft in navy and only Navy air force much stronger then closest Airforce in the planet. My point is they dont need AA as China so Chinise Product may be better. I know Russia very well i dont think they can continue Produce advanced military technology. They Produce nothing and all country depends on natural recources.
3. Probably this weapons never be used in real war. So as tax payer Turkish Citizen i am happy to see paying lowest prize includes TOT may be in future we may Produce our own. And i will pay less
)
4. Turkey is part of NATO and not going any where being ally not means same Country or same interests. Of cource US companises will try to use some pressure on their goverment. It works same all over the world.
1- HQ 9 is good system because we dont have any long range AA Before 1 is better then 0
2- A Chinese Product for AA may be better then US system because US dont need AA they have superior air force and no one can match with them i think they have 12-13 aircraft in navy and only Navy air force much stronger then closest Airforce in the planet. My point is they dont need AA as China so Chinise Product may be better. I know Russia very well i dont think they can continue Produce advanced military technology. They Produce nothing and all country depends on natural recources.
3. Probably this weapons never be used in real war. So as tax payer Turkish Citizen i am happy to see paying lowest prize includes TOT may be in future we may Produce our own. And i will pay less
)4. Turkey is part of NATO and not going any where being ally not means same Country or same interests. Of cource US companises will try to use some pressure on their goverment. It works same all over the world.
he says TOT sharing. No country or company full TOT in their advanced technologic weapons. For example for HGK( it is known as Turkish JDAM) TÜBİTAK first developed termal batteries. Because if you buy it from another country you need to share information and it will end with JAMMING in battle field. So there is no full TOT in real life Probably TOT will be about missiles but thats only My personel comment.
Bismarck
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I dont really trust in this words. Maybe this could be the only way for Turkey, to appease the US that they can accept the decision.
These words most likely for PR of cource we will nothing share with China about NATO because our military based on NATO standarts it will be ilke shooting yourself. Ofcource we will not share with US what we will get from China it will be risc for security. And No country shares nothing with other wise all NATO members would have same weapons.
faithfulguy
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This sale is not going to happen. China is already celebrating but privately admit that Turkey will be pressured by US to withdraw.
For China, Turkey missile deal a victory even if it doesn't happen
HONG KONG, Oct 2 (Reuters) - Turkey's $4 billion order for a Chinese missile defence system is a breakthrough for China in its bid to become a supplier of advanced weapons, even though opposition from Washington and NATO threatens to derail the deal.
The winning bid from the China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) to deliver its FD-2000 air defence missile system in a joint production agreement with Turkey is the first time a Chinese supplier has won a major order for state-of-the-art equipment from a NATO member. U.S., Russian and Western European manufacturers were also in the fray.
The decision last week to award the contract to CPMIEC, a company that is under U.S. sanctions for dealings with Iran, North Korea and Syria, surprised global arms trade experts and senior NATO officials.
"It is quite significant I would say, if it materialises," said Oliver Brauner, a researcher on China's arms exports at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI)."It would certainly be a landmark deal."
Turkey signalled on Monday that it could back away from its decision after Washington said it had "serious concerns" about the deal with a sanctioned company for a system that would not be compatible with NATO's other weapons and networks.
And, in a reminder that Ankara faces stiff opposition from its alliance partners in Europe, a NATO official in Brussels said it was important that equipment ordered by member countries is compatible.
"It is premature at this stage to say whether Turkey's acquisition will be able to operate with the NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defence System," the official said.
NATO's disappointment with Turkey is heightened by the fact that the United States, Germany and the Netherlands each sent two Patriot batteries earlier this year after Ankara asked for help in beefing up its air defences against the threat of missiles from Syria.
Ankara could call off the air defence deal under pressure, but some Chinese and foreign commentators suggested it would still be a symbolic victory for Beijing.
They say Turkey's willingness to choose the FD-2000 over established rivals confirms the rapid technical improvement and competitiveness of China's missile and aerospace sector.
Chinese military experts say the system performed well in live tests for the Turkish Defence Ministry.
It also signals that China's sprawling defence industry is poised to become a low cost supplier of high technology weaponry alongside its rapidly expanding sales of basic military equipment including small arms, artillery, armoured vehicles, general purpose vehicles and older generation missiles.
CHINESE MILITARY EXPORTS SOARING
China has displaced the United Kingdom as the world's fifth biggest arms supplier in the five years to 2012, according to SIPRI.
Chinese exports of conventional weapons increased 162 per cent in the five years from 2008 to 2012 compared with the five years from 2003 to 2007, the arms trade monitor reported earlier this year.
Sales to close ally Pakistan accounted for most of this but China is also expanding its deliveries to other markets, mostly in the developing world.
While almost three decades of double digit, annual increases in military spending has accelerated Beijing's ambitious military build-up, it has also allowed China's defence factories to boost the quality and performance of home-grown weapons and military hardware.
"There are good reasons for China to succeed in Turkey," says Vasily Kashin, an arms trade expert at Moscow's Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. "The key factors were price and the readiness to transfer technology."
CPMIEC, the marketing arm of China's missile manufacturing industry, outbid the Franco-Italian company Eurosam and its SAMP/T Aster 30 missile, Russia's Rosoboronexport's S-300 and Patriot air defence batteries from U.S. contractors Raytheon and Lockheed Martin.
Atilla Sandikli, the chairman of think-tank Bilgesam and a former high-level officer in the Turkish army, said an offer of technology transfer from China was decisive.
Turkey's NATO allies were less enthusiastic about co-production and technology sharing, he added.
"The only reason why Turkey didn't have them (the air defence systems) until now is because they wanted to achieve the technological information and know-how to produce these systems," Sandikli said."I think Turkey's choice is a message to its NATO allies in this sense."
Some analysts said Turkey's decision also reflected warming ties between Ankara and Beijing in recent years and a growing track record of defence cooperation.
Nihat Ali Ozcan, an analyst at Ankara-based think-tank TEPAV, said that Turkey and China already were in cooperation on short-range missile defence systems.
"Co-producing these systems also requires technology transfer, and China has no restrictions on it," he said.
Reports in China's state-run military press suggested the sale would open the door to further high technology orders in the West and other markets. Chinese military experts were quoted as saying that while price had been a key factor, the capability of the FD-2000 system also satisfied Turkey's demands.
China has been aggressively marketing this air defence system at arms exhibitions and air shows in recent years.
Military analysts familiar with the FD-2000 say it is a leading example of Chinese defence industry's capacity to absorb and adapt foreign technology, combine this with local innovation and ramp up low cost manufacturing.
Kashin said the Chinese missile system was partly based on Western technology obtained from Israel and also drew on Russian know-how.
It was possible that Russia supplied some of the components and technology under contracts with China, he said.
According to marketing material for the FD-2000 and reports in the Chinese military press, the missiles, launchers, radars, vehicles and support systems of the mobile FD-2000 are all designed and built in China.
It is reported to be effective in intercepting high performance strike aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), precision guided bombs and a range of missiles. It is also advertised that it remains effective during heavy air strikes and electronic interference.
For China, Turkey missile deal a victory even if it doesn't happen
HONG KONG, Oct 2 (Reuters) - Turkey's $4 billion order for a Chinese missile defence system is a breakthrough for China in its bid to become a supplier of advanced weapons, even though opposition from Washington and NATO threatens to derail the deal.
The winning bid from the China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) to deliver its FD-2000 air defence missile system in a joint production agreement with Turkey is the first time a Chinese supplier has won a major order for state-of-the-art equipment from a NATO member. U.S., Russian and Western European manufacturers were also in the fray.
The decision last week to award the contract to CPMIEC, a company that is under U.S. sanctions for dealings with Iran, North Korea and Syria, surprised global arms trade experts and senior NATO officials.
"It is quite significant I would say, if it materialises," said Oliver Brauner, a researcher on China's arms exports at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI)."It would certainly be a landmark deal."
Turkey signalled on Monday that it could back away from its decision after Washington said it had "serious concerns" about the deal with a sanctioned company for a system that would not be compatible with NATO's other weapons and networks.
And, in a reminder that Ankara faces stiff opposition from its alliance partners in Europe, a NATO official in Brussels said it was important that equipment ordered by member countries is compatible.
"It is premature at this stage to say whether Turkey's acquisition will be able to operate with the NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defence System," the official said.
NATO's disappointment with Turkey is heightened by the fact that the United States, Germany and the Netherlands each sent two Patriot batteries earlier this year after Ankara asked for help in beefing up its air defences against the threat of missiles from Syria.
Ankara could call off the air defence deal under pressure, but some Chinese and foreign commentators suggested it would still be a symbolic victory for Beijing.
They say Turkey's willingness to choose the FD-2000 over established rivals confirms the rapid technical improvement and competitiveness of China's missile and aerospace sector.
Chinese military experts say the system performed well in live tests for the Turkish Defence Ministry.
It also signals that China's sprawling defence industry is poised to become a low cost supplier of high technology weaponry alongside its rapidly expanding sales of basic military equipment including small arms, artillery, armoured vehicles, general purpose vehicles and older generation missiles.
CHINESE MILITARY EXPORTS SOARING
China has displaced the United Kingdom as the world's fifth biggest arms supplier in the five years to 2012, according to SIPRI.
Chinese exports of conventional weapons increased 162 per cent in the five years from 2008 to 2012 compared with the five years from 2003 to 2007, the arms trade monitor reported earlier this year.
Sales to close ally Pakistan accounted for most of this but China is also expanding its deliveries to other markets, mostly in the developing world.
While almost three decades of double digit, annual increases in military spending has accelerated Beijing's ambitious military build-up, it has also allowed China's defence factories to boost the quality and performance of home-grown weapons and military hardware.
"There are good reasons for China to succeed in Turkey," says Vasily Kashin, an arms trade expert at Moscow's Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. "The key factors were price and the readiness to transfer technology."
CPMIEC, the marketing arm of China's missile manufacturing industry, outbid the Franco-Italian company Eurosam and its SAMP/T Aster 30 missile, Russia's Rosoboronexport's S-300 and Patriot air defence batteries from U.S. contractors Raytheon and Lockheed Martin.
Atilla Sandikli, the chairman of think-tank Bilgesam and a former high-level officer in the Turkish army, said an offer of technology transfer from China was decisive.
Turkey's NATO allies were less enthusiastic about co-production and technology sharing, he added.
"The only reason why Turkey didn't have them (the air defence systems) until now is because they wanted to achieve the technological information and know-how to produce these systems," Sandikli said."I think Turkey's choice is a message to its NATO allies in this sense."
Some analysts said Turkey's decision also reflected warming ties between Ankara and Beijing in recent years and a growing track record of defence cooperation.
Nihat Ali Ozcan, an analyst at Ankara-based think-tank TEPAV, said that Turkey and China already were in cooperation on short-range missile defence systems.
"Co-producing these systems also requires technology transfer, and China has no restrictions on it," he said.
Reports in China's state-run military press suggested the sale would open the door to further high technology orders in the West and other markets. Chinese military experts were quoted as saying that while price had been a key factor, the capability of the FD-2000 system also satisfied Turkey's demands.
China has been aggressively marketing this air defence system at arms exhibitions and air shows in recent years.
Military analysts familiar with the FD-2000 say it is a leading example of Chinese defence industry's capacity to absorb and adapt foreign technology, combine this with local innovation and ramp up low cost manufacturing.
Kashin said the Chinese missile system was partly based on Western technology obtained from Israel and also drew on Russian know-how.
It was possible that Russia supplied some of the components and technology under contracts with China, he said.
According to marketing material for the FD-2000 and reports in the Chinese military press, the missiles, launchers, radars, vehicles and support systems of the mobile FD-2000 are all designed and built in China.
It is reported to be effective in intercepting high performance strike aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), precision guided bombs and a range of missiles. It is also advertised that it remains effective during heavy air strikes and electronic interference.
Neptune
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@cabatli_53 wasn't our naval AAW missile was chosen as SM-2 Block IV? Did Bayar meant that they'll use the same domestic network or will we develop it from HHQ-9?
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-SINAN-
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Maybe US can satisy itself.
On one hand ToT, co-production, investment on Technopark, cheaper price, on the other hand of the shelf sales.
If Turkish Officials decide to turn to US for this tender. It will be serving US interests instead of Turkish interest. In that case we would consider them as traitors.
faithfulguy
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don't be so harsh on your leaders. They are just looking out for the interest of Turkey. A small country like Turkey need to pick the right alliance. And US is still the best bet.
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Small country you call have the biggest economy in MiddleEast and have the NATO's second largest standing army.
You should choose your words carefully when talking about someone elses country. I think you don't know well Turks and Turkey.
faithfulguy
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The fact is that Turkey is in a neighborhood of small countries. So its a big country when compare to the middle eastern country. Also, compare European countries, its about the same size as Germany, France, Italy. And they are all small countries. When I think of big countries, I'm thinking of Russia, US and China.
So the world is consist of a few big countries that has disproportional amount of influence and then the small countries.
flamer84
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China has smaller influence than those countries you call small.When someone occupied a british island far ,far away (not close to the mainland like in the case of China) they've immediately sorted things out unlike the chinese who just mount annoying patrols to iritate other countries.Chinese "big influence",is just an illusion.For example,Turkey has much more influence in the ME then China.
faithfulguy
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Of course, Turkey has more influence in middle east. turkey probably has more influence than anyone besides Americans in its general vicinity and China actually do not have lots of influence other than its immediate neighbors. But big countries still has more resource to do things small countries cannot do. Such as sending people to space and build stealth fighters.
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