T-LORAMIDS Tender | Updates & Discussion

[Safriz]

I think this is the answer for why Turkey didn't go for a western system.
Turkey had three criteria for this procurement,in addition to lowest price,the contenders had to fulfill these demands...

Turkey highly insisted on three points concerning the missile defense system project;
firstly, the system should not be placed against a certain country which means Iran or Syria should not be named;
secondly, it should cover all Turkish territory –
and thirdly, its components on Turkish territory should be operated by the Turkish military.

The Institute for Peace Research and Security Policy research institution at the University of Hamburg.

 

[ASQ-1918]

Congrats. Hayırlı olsun.

 

[Informant]

So much of your stealing and talking about inferior Chinese missile and cheap price tag. Sorry to burst your bubble. HQ-9 is chosen becos both Patriot and S-300 are crap.

********.com - Turkey decides to buy 4B USD worth of Chinese HQ-9 missile systems

NotsoGr8vision

 

[razgriz19]

everyone say copy, copy and copy.
Think about it for a second. US military and their technology was NOT the greatest.
They had a British Merlin "their" mustang. which they got TOT from Britain.
They didn't even make the first gas turbine, that tech was also transferred from Germany and again Britain.
Supersonic wing designs, rockets, etc, everything was COPIED, and improved as the time went by.

China is doing the same thing. Just because they copied a lot of things in the past DOES NOT mean they can't make something on their own.

I had a privilege of meeting the chief material engineer of Pratt & Whitney Canada. He told me that every "New" turbine is actually just an improvement over the older turbine.
so technically everyone copied the Germans and British

 

[zzzz]

So much of your stealing and talking about inferior Chinese missile and cheap price tag. Sorry to burst your bubble. HQ-9 is chosen becos both Patriot and S-300 are crap.

********.com - Turkey decides to buy 4B USD worth of Chinese HQ-9 missile systems

The Chinese looney who made up that BS story should have spent some time to research that Russia never offered S-400 for this tender. In that case he would not fail so miserably

 

[Beast]

The Chinese looney who made up that BS story should have spent some time to research that Russia never offered S-400 for this tender. In that case he would not fail so miserably

Luckily, S-400 never offer. I can be sure. It will still be rejected by Turkish. Face saving for Russian

 

[Sinnerman108]

Well,

The PRC, by definition, happens to be a special friend of Pakistan - our pillar friend and ally - Developing stronger mutual ties with the PRC is going to benefit both of KSA and Pakistan on whatever level you would think of, from trade to defense, to science and technology.

Here is an interesting article which briefs up how important China is to KSA these days.
China-Saudi Relations: Booming Trade

PRC is a friend of business ... no matter where it comes from.
when PRC will look for MORE business in GCC, how will your "friends" fare then ?

 

[zzzz]

Luckily, S-400 never offer. I can be sure. It will still be rejected by Turkish. Face saving for Russian

Nope, not luckily. Turkey's invitation was rejected. Russia is only accepting direct offers to buy S-400 (no tenders) and with delivery date after 2015. China currently is first in line.

 

[graphican]

yeah. %30-35 of Turkey's muslim population are practisers. Thank to "erdogan the magnificant", he'll bring seriat one day. He is a tall idiot...

I wonder what is your criteria to weigh value of countrymen. Practicing Muslims in your opinion are inferior to non practicing ones? If so, give reasons what makes people superior or better by not following laws of Islam.

 

[Rain]

Stunned

this news well shut many mouths who usually do a lot of blah blah on quality of Chinese equipment.... very sad.

 

[Rain]

Turkey Look East Policy is on work.

 

[Safriz]

yeah. %30-35 of Turkey's muslim population are practisers. Thank to "erdogan the magnificant", he'll bring seriat one day. He is a tall idiot...

Go protest in Gezi....Taksim.....again?
The idiot ''water gunned'' and gassed your type pretty bad... Still didnt learn the lesson?

You the ultra seculars are a minority,and as much as you want to think that your type,owns Turkey..........you dont.
Not anymore.
Taksim episode changed everything.
It showed the power of the ''Quiet majority'' .....the sub urban and village Turks...., who are also far more islamic and pro islam than you the Urban Turks ....These pro islam Turks erdogan ''the idiot'' represents...
They are the face of Turkey now...
They defeated you at Gezi and Taksim.

 

[Saithan]

Turkish selection of Chinese missile system angers US

NATO member Turkey's selection of a Chinese missile system for its long-term, long-range missile and aerial defense program, code-named T-Loramids, has highly irritated and frustrated the US, which has been advising Ankara not to opt for a non-NATO missile system that it said would cause interoperability problems, Western defense industry sources based in Ankara told Today's Zaman.

“The US is very, very unhappy about Turkey's selection of China [as their provider]. US President Barack Obama has twice taken up the missile issue with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan during their face-to-face meetings and reminded the Turkish prime minister about the interoperability problems that … a non-NATO system will create,” said a defense industry source in Ankara, quoting the US sources.

The result of the multi-billion dollar tender may further anger the US because state-run defense firm China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp. (CPMIEC), which made the winning bid, has been sanctioned by Washington.

In February, the United States announced sanctions on CPMIEC for violations of the Iran, North Korea and Syria Nonproliferation Act, Reuters reported on Sept. 26.

Turkey has decided to start contract negotiations with CPMIEC in its six-year project to acquire long-range missile and air defense systems.

“It has been decided to start contract talks with China's CPMIEC for the joint production of the missiles and their systems in Turkey,” said a statement released after a four-hour meeting on Sept. 26 of the Executive Committee (EC) of the Turkish Undersecretariat for the Defense Industry (SSM). The EC, chaired by the prime minister, includes the defense minister and the chief of the general staff.

Officials made no announcement to the press after the meeting apart from releasing a statement about the EC's decisions. However, local industry sources told Today's Zaman that the Chinese offer to co-produce the missiles with Turkey involved high-technology transfer to the Turkish defense industry, which played a role in Turkey's choice.

The systems competing in the T-Loramids surface-to-air missile (SAM) acquisition project were the Chinese HQ-9, the US Patriot, Europe's Aster 30 SAMP/T and the Russian S-300.

The tender envisioned the acquisition of 12 missile firing units for a cost of around $4 billion. But China priced their bid at about $3 billion, the sources said.

The project is intended to bridge Turkey's gap in missile defense. Turkey opened a contract in March 2007 for the acquisition of long-range missiles, at the time citing, though implicitly, an effort to deter a possible threat from neighboring Iran.
Why China?

Local defense industry sources close to the industry told Today's Zaman that CPMIEC's bid included a huge investment to build a technology park next to Turkey's Sabiha Gökçen International Airport on the Anatolian side of İstanbul. This was one of the demands Turkey made to bidding companies -- and China met it, according to the sources.

Erdoğan is known for his policy of building everything in Turkey, including weapons, a defense industry source said.

“China reduced the price of its T-Loramids bid to about $3 billion, while other three bidders were slightly over $4 billion. Erdoğan must have calculated that he could pay Turkish engineers to do some of the work in developing the missiles with the extra $1 billion that will be saved with the Chinese offer,” the sources said.

Analysts say Erdoğan was also making a political point to his European and NATO partners by choosing China for the long-range missile project -- that Turkey is dependent neither on Europe nor the US and can get what it needs in the East.

In fact, Turkey has a close defense relationship with South Korea. Seoul has been giving technical support to Ankara on its ambitious and controversial project of building its own fighter jet by 2023.

The US has good relations with South Korea, however.

Disappointing widespread expectations, Turkey did not finalize the six-year-old T-Loramids project tender at an EC meeting in January this year. Local and foreign defense industry sources told Today's Zaman at the time that at the meeting, Erdoğan used his influence to abandon the purchase of 12 SAM systems in favor of the development of an advanced SAM system between Turkey and one of the bidding companies.
US is upset at the moment

According to Western military officials in Ankara, Turkey choosing China has upset the US.

“But in the long term, it is not expected to affect overall relations between Turkey and the US, two close NATO allies, very badly. But there will be some concerns on the part of the US government as well as NATO regarding having the Chinese around the Turkish defense industry, which the US has been intensely involved in,” the sources said, citing Turkey's participation in the US' F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program.

In the long run, Turkey will pay the price in isolation, since NATO will not integrate Turkey's Chinese long-range missile systems with its own.

“This is the price Turkey will pay for choosing Chinese missile systems,” said a Western defense industry source in Ankara.

In the meantime, Turkey is seeking to keep NATO Patriot missiles deployed here to thwart ballistic missile threats from Syria for another year. The deployment ends in October. It remains to be seen how NATO -- and the US in particular -- will react to a Turkish request to keep the missiles on Turkish soil after the country chose China for its long-range missile defense project.

There have been speculations in Ankara that Erdoğan might have in mind enabling the transfer of NATO Patriots in the form of a grant to Turkey.

In the final analysis, Turkey's decision to co-develop high-tech missile systems with China to strengthen its relatively weak defense industry infrastructure will be more beneficial than buying these costly systems off the shelf from other bidders.

source: Turkish selection of Chinese missile system angers US - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

 

[Saithan]

The article above was posted here to keep you all informed, so we keep this topic alive and kicking.

I wasn't quite off with regard to the choice being a political one. I think the idea of spending 1 billion for R&D is very good, also I would like to point out to the other benefits of choosing HQ-9, The chinese have accepted to build a "industrial" zone near istanbul and that means work, of course I am quite sure that Turkey won't permit China to do like in Africa, Greenland etc. where they "import" chinese to work and then leave once they're finished.

The cities build and left empty are astounding in Africa.

Also the comment about Turkey being Isolated.. pfft... who the hell are they kidding, Turkey IS already alone in NATO, only muslim country.

When Turkey says, RIGHT, every other NATO country says LEFT. So who are they kidding.

We're quite lucky, NATO "Decided" to plant the PAC-3 batteries in Turkey, but I guess that was enough to open up the governments eyes to TOT and quick solution. +1 billion dollar to ensure a lasting AD solution (just my hope of course)

 

[Echo_419]

As you may have noticed, lately I had a change in my future strategic out look. I used to hold some hope for Japan and S. Korea, but with Shinzo Abe's recent move to forge closer defense and strategic ties with India, I have lost that hope. And South Korea always follow Japan.

So, my current thinking is that it is going to be a Sino-Muslim alliance (total about 3 billion people). We should be loyal to the Chinese and Chinese also should be loyal to us in return. But we have to go step by step, as US/EU/Japan still control large part of world economy about 40 trillion out of 70 trillion. China and Muslim nations together is just 13 trillion.

So both Chinese and Muslims need to work together to increase our share of the economic pie. We can do that by bringing in Chinese as much as possible to replace US/EU/Japan/S. Korea. Currently China do not have high quality products, but in a few years they will be able to match anyone in almost any field, so we should get ready for that time.

Once we have a good alliance going with the Chinese, the next step would be to extend that joint economic and strategic influence to other nations in our neighborhood: South East Asia, Central Asia and Africa.

And Iran can never match the influence of combined weight of majority Sunni Muslim nations of the world. They will be in our group, as they have good relations with China, but they will not be able to affect our relations with China, as our weight is at least 12-15 times their weight, in terms of population and their future productive potential.

Economy and industry is the final battlefield, defense equipment is just a by product.

Why would Muslim Nations [Excluding Pakistan & BD]
Will serve their Ties with Japan,South Korea[Mega Industrial Nations with lot of tech] just becauz they are strategic partners of India
Do please Explain me this Or is this one of your Wet Dreams

Infact i have met many members from Saudi Arabia & GCC they are very nice people
My earlier Views were totally wrong about them