T-625 & Turkish Utility Helicopter Programs

[T-SaGe]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1386433604738236418

• The Gökbey is currently on civil aviation certification flights.
• Deliveries begin in 2022.
• Next year, the first 3 helicopters will be delivered to the Gendarmerie General Command.
• 2 helicopters will roll out of the production line every month.
• The 4th helicopter is in the completion phase right now.

(Also in the program, Kotil talks about the domestic design and production of powertrain; gearbox, shaft, hub etc, and rotor blades. It is stated that advances in this area will make TAI a global player in rotary wings area.)

 

[aziqbal]

Very good news

When Turkish lost a rescue helicopter and Turkish were killed during the 2005 Muzafrabad earthquake the Turkish leader said it was a small price to pay for sacrifices of the Muslim support for the Ottoman Empire

May Allah increase the Turkish capability in the helicopter field

I have great hope for Pakistan and Turkish brotherhood, allied forces brothers in arms

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Enlarged T625?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Enlarged T625?

no, just the color is different

 

[xbat]

Enlarged T625?

no, sliding door is open, look carefully

 

[aziqbal]

has T625 flown with the TS1400 engine yet?

and TS1400 is to be used on T129 is well right?

and does Turkey have indigenous engine development for ATAK II if so whats it called?

and just to make it more complicated what engine is being used fro T70? Turkish or indigenous

 

[merzifonlu]

has T625 flown with the TS1400 engine yet?

Yes and no. The Gökbey helicopter flew with the TS-1400 engine and the domestic transmission paired with it. The T625 will use the core Gökbey infrastructure. There isn't a T625 flying around yet. After Gökbey is delivered, they will decide for the T625. For Turkey, T625 is not a priority project.

However, if T625 will be sold to Pakistan or another country in 30-40 units, the production will be decided. The Turkish Army does not want the T625, They wants the heavy class Atak-2.

and TS1400 is to be used on T129 is well right?

No. The engine to be used is specified in the license agreement with Italy. Unless the agreement is renewed, the TS-1400 cannot be used on the T129 Attack Helicopter. In addition, the TS-1400 and the domestic transmission that will come with it must also prove itself. That's why their performance in Gökbey Helicopter is very important and everyone is looking forward to the result.

and does Turkey have indigenous engine development for ATAK II if so whats it called?

İt's called TS-3000. 3000 HP But there is no urgency. Ukrainian engine will be used instead. The urgent tasks for TEI are small-scale ammunition engines and, most importantly, the engines of TFX.

and just to make it more complicated what engine is being used fro T70? Turkish or indigenous

It's US designed GE T700 series engines. They are produced in Turkey under a GE license. However, the most important point is that the hot parts of this engine are also produced in Turkey! For this reason, they can be considered as a Turkish engine in a way.

 

[hyperman]

No. The engine to be used is specified in the license agreement with Italy. Unless the agreement is renewed, the TS-1400 cannot be used on the T129 Attack Helicopter.

I thought the only restriction on the T129 was that it couldn't be sold in the UK or Italy, where did you read about the engine restriction? sounds like a pretty big problem as it would negate the ability to independently export the helicopter.

 

[merzifonlu]

I thought the only restriction on the T129 was that it couldn't be sold in the UK or Italy, where did you read about the engine restriction? sounds like a pretty big problem as it would negate the ability to independently export the helicopter.

No engine restrictions by Italy. However, the transmission elements of the helicopter are purchased from Italy and they are adapted to the USA engine.

If you are going to install a new engine, it means you will get permission for a new transmission from Italy. If you say that you will use my own transmission, you have two options: a) Agreement with Italy. b) You do not agree and Italy will sue you in the international court.

Also, remember, even if an agreement is made with Italy, the compatibility of the new engine and new transmission will take a lot of time and money. And the T129 contract expires in 2028. It's not worth it.

Instead, "Let's design and manufacture the Gökbey Helicopter with new domestic engine and new domestic transmission. In this way, the necessary infrastructure for the T629 will be established." they said.

 

[hyperman]

Instead, "Let's design and manufacture the Gökbey Helicopter with new domestic engine and new domestic transmission. In this way, the necessary infrastructure for the T625 will be established." they said.

Isn't the Gokbey called the T625? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_T625_Gökbey

or you mean the TAI T629? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_T629

 

[aziqbal]

Isn't the Gokbey called the T625? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_T625_Gökbey

or you mean the TAI T629? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_T629

I think he meant T629

No engine restrictions by Italy. However, the transmission elements of the helicopter are purchased from Italy and they are adapted to the USA engine.

If you are going to install a new engine, it means you will get permission for a new transmission from Italy. If you say that you will use my own transmission, you have two options: a) Agreement with Italy. b) You do not agree and Italy will sue you in the international court.

Also, remember, even if an agreement is made with Italy, the compatibility of the new engine and new transmission will take a lot of time and money. And the T129 contract expires in 2028. It's not worth it.

Instead, "Let's design and manufacture the Gökbey Helicopter with new domestic engine and new domestic transmission. In this way, the necessary infrastructure for the T625 will be established." they said.

also I thought TS1400 was a home grown Turkish design engine and nothing to do with Italy ?

 

[merzifonlu]

Isn't the Gokbey called the T625? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_T625_Gökbey

or you mean the TAI T629? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_T629

Correction, T629. Sorry for mistake.

also I thought TS1400 was a home grown Turkish design engine and nothing to do with Italy ?

Thats true. But let's not forget, every engine needs a transmission. The transmission of the T129 Atak helicopter is also purchase from Italy in accordance with its contract. If you want to use the TS-1400 engine in T129 Atak helicopter, you have to agree with Italy for transmission.

 

[aziqbal]

Correction, T629. Sorry for mistake.


Thats true. But let's not forget, every engine needs a transmission. The transmission of the T129 Atak helicopter is also purchase from Italy in accordance with its contract. If you want to use the TS-1400 engine in T129 Atak helicopter, you have to agree with Italy for transmission.

does Turkey have programme to build its own transmission ?

also thats Italy and not US, the chances of Italy refusing to supply transmission to Turkey for a Pakistan deal is quite low as Pakistan has good relations with Italy

I mean if Turkey gets the TS1400 certified on the T625 Gokbey and then surely they wont have reinvent the entire wheel and they could fit it to the T129 attack helicopter and still source the transmission from Italy they could offer the T129 for export without US approval, T129 + TS1400 + Italian transmission

but as someone said in another thread would all this work be feasible for just 30 x T129 to Pakistan

 

[merzifonlu]

does Turkey have programme to build its own transmission ?

Of course, there is! Otherwise, there would be no point in developing the TS-1400 engine. Every engine needs a transmission. Because they are like conjoined twins.

If Pakistan still wants to buy light attack helicopters from Turkey, the model that Turkey will offer from now on will not be the T129. It will be the T629 instead. For this, first of all, the domestic TS-1400 engine and its domestic transmission need to prove itself.