T-50 PAK-FA fighter jet project with Russia hits turbulence

[hkdas]

I am not underestimating, but looking at things in a more rational way. Yes we have gained good know how in certain areas, which will help us in Nirbhay development for example, but that doesn't make us able to develop a Brahmos on our own. We even have gained some good knowledge in the LCA project on materials, coatings and avionics, but still are far away from having designed, developed and inducted a modern fighter. So we have to put things in perspective!
We can't design FGFA, since we still have huge problems in basic aircraft design in India. Be it Saras, IJT or LCA, all suffering from design issues, which makes it a simple fact, that we can't contribute to FGFA design more, than designing the twin seat cockpit (now at a later stage). That however doesn't mean that we can't replace airframe parts that the Russians initially designed, with parts that includes other materials in FGFA, nor that we can't integrate Indian displays into the FGFA cockpit for example.

yes, that is why india need JV with russia... india have both financial capability and some technical capability to be a partner in this FGFA project. russian want only financial supporter. india wants to gain experience in designing a modern fighter to build AMCA by their own. but russian wants to hold their technology, and don't want to share it. which is not acceptable in a JV.

 

[sancho]

yes, that is why india need JV with russia... india have both financial capability and some technical capability to be a partner in this FGFA project. russian want only financial supporter. india wants to gain experience in designing a modern fighter to build AMCA by their own. but russian wants to hold their technology, and don't want to share it. which is not acceptable in a JV.

Russia needs our money, but they also know they need India as a long term market for their defence products, even if they are jointly developed. That's why they have an interest in joint developments and are offering it in nearly all areas (FGFA, MTA, Brahmos, AESA radar, helicopter, MBT, nuclear carrier...), but at the end of the day, they still are far beyond our capabilities and we simply can't contribute too much on such high end developments.
Btw FGFA and AMCA has nothing in common, since HAL is the main Indian development partner on the one side, while ADA / DRDO are on the other.

 

[rcrmj]

Doesn't that depend on the Russian requirements? They didn't demanded new engines but want to use the 117S, AESA is ready developed and integrated, electro optics and EW further developed from latest Flanker and Mig versions and integrated, weapon upgrades going on, LDP under development for some time now. So what actually is limiting them to induct the fighter in 2016, if it fulfills their requirements?

well, so far there are no official pics of them testing weapon bay``do you have any reliable photos?

 

[sancho]

well, so far there are no official pics of them testing weapon bay``do you have any reliable photos?

No (at least not from the T50), but logically that would be done after the external weapon carrying tests anyway, so that's not a big deal either.

 

[qwerrty]

No Indian expert or pilot has had a long hard look at the PAK-FA jet to date. The Russians are not allowing Indian pilots to fly the aircraft, claiming foreign pilots are barred from flying in their airspace.

The Indian work share in the venture is a paltry 13 per cent though it is paying 50 per cent of the projected cost of $10.5 billion agreed on in 2011. In terms of work, India's state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will contribute only tyres, basic navigational instrument VOR-DME, coolant for the radar, laser designation pod and heads-up display.

Even within this 13 per cent, the actual indigenous items will be in single digits and the rest will be procured from abroad. The programme has been plagued by difficulties right from the start.

not surprised

 

[NKVD]

well, so far there are no official pics of them testing weapon bay``do you have any reliable photos?

there is video

 

[kurup]

there is video

It's a CGI .

 

[rcrmj]

No (at least not from the T50), but logically that would be done after the external weapon carrying tests anyway, so that's not a big deal either.

not very russian style, they'd love to show their fancy stuff to anyone even the system itself is 30% on its maturity

there is video

all i have to say is````lol

 

[sancho]

not very russian style, they'd love to show their fancy stuff to anyone even the system itself is 30% on its maturity

You think so? Compare the "show off" of the T50 and the J20 prototypes, where the fighters are basically presented to everybody who wants to take a picture. And when you follow the T50 prototype tests, you will see that it's a very logical and rational approach. First once only flight tests, slowly expanding the limits, later induction of first internal systems. Different prototypes for tests of different systems, first mid air refulling test, slide external modifications, first flights with external pylons and now flight tests with external weapon configs. So they are following a constant plan, while the next batch of prototypes might show more changes and will reveal more about the internal weapon bays.

 

[IND151]

Nonsense article, since when does HAL produce tires or LDP's? IAF did not complaint about engines last year (Ajay Shukla did) but some years ago, which resulted in the development of the Type 30 engine, that is now in production for the next batch of Pak Fa and FGFA prototypes. And that the demand of a new engine costs extra, should be logical or? UAE must pay extra if they want higher thrust engines on Rafale, Boeing offered us EPE engines for F18 SHs, if we pay extra, Kuwait paid extra for higher thrust engines in their Hornets..., nothing unusual.

We must get rid of the notion that we are an equal partner in the development of the fighter, we are not! Not because the Russians treat us bad, but because we lack the know how to contribute more! That's why crying foul everytime the Russians play things in their favour, because we are the weak partner is silly and wasted time, while we have to focus on improving our capabilities to contibute more or to change things in our favour.
We still don't know the details of the contract, but IF we compromised on a single seater Pak Fa / FGFA at first to keep costs in check, imo we must insist on the Russians buying their fighters with avionics made by HAL or Samtel too, to have one common layout that reduces costs. We have certain areas where we have the capability like avionics and it is in our interest to get the Russians to buy more of our stuff too!

Thanks for info.

based on current Russia's ability on developing modern cutting edge weapon systems, Su-35 will be their finally star of their decade long show, they will never make T-50 a true 5th gen stealth fighter, even if they did it, by the time, the sky could be dominated by Chinese and Americans sixth gen fighters.

sounds funny isnt ? but it is the truth

A casual look at the powerplants of J-31, Jf-17...........hmm.

 

[he-man]

Is India handing over Blank Cheque to Russia for Pak-Fa Project ? | Page 3