T-50 PAK-FA fighter jet project with Russia hits turbulence

[As is - where is]

I thought that the PAK FA's RCS was 0.1 m^2, not 0.01 m^2.

PAK FA stealth features patent published - IHS Jane's 360

Details of the Sukhoi Design Bureau's work on the stealthy aspects of the T-50 PAK FA fighter aircraft emerged in late December 2013, when the company's patents were published.
According to the patent paperwork, taken together, all of the stealthy measures offer significant improvements over legacy fighter designs. The papers claim that the radar cross-section (RCS) of an Su-27 was in the order of 10-15 m 2 , with the intention being to reduce the size of the RCS in the T-50 to an "average figure of 0.1-1 m 2 ".

IIRC the F-35 has an RCS of 0.01 m^2 and the F-22 has an RCS of 0.001 m^2.

Ofc they are all different in other aspects so the PAK FA is superior in other measurements. For example it has two engines compared to the F-35 that has only one. I'm sure that it would turn inside an F-35 in a dogfight. However in a BVR fight the F-35 should be superior due to its better electronics. The F-35 would see it first and fire first but if it missed (after all BVR missiles are never to be fully trusted) the PAK FA would dominate in a WVR fight.

The F-22 would smack them both in a WVR fight though imo. But the F-35 should still win over it in BVR fights.

 

[NKVD]

I thought that the PAK FA's RCS was 0.1 m^2, not 0.01 m^2.

PAK FA stealth features patent published - IHS Jane's 360



IIRC the F-35 has an RCS of 0.01 m^2 and the F-22 has an RCS of 0.001 m^2.

Ofc they are all different in other aspects so the PAK FA is superior in other measurements. For example it has two engines compared to the F-35 that has only one. I'm sure that it would turn inside an F-35 in a dogfight. However in a BVR fight the F-35 should be superior due to its better electronics. The F-35 would see it first and fire first but if it missed (after all BVR missiles are never to be fully trusted) the PAK FA would dominate in a WVR fight.

The F-22 would smack them both in a WVR fight though imo. But the F-35 should still win over it in BVR fights.

Don't worry we get everything better than pakfa with 45 improvement including stealth

 

[sancho]

@sancho correct me if I'm wrong Except 295 million for designing fgfa we not paid anything Contract is not even finalized yet.

That was the initial payment, but we did some changes in the meantime, by demanding the type 30 engine for example, so we surely paid something for that, but we don't know the last status, the media is pretty much guessing.

 

[NKVD]

That was the initial payment, but we did some changes in the meantime, by demanding the type 30 engine for example, so we surely paid something for that, but we don't know the last status, the media is pretty much guessing.

I mean without finalising contract how can budget is allowed for this project .except intial payment.
did we pay them after signing the contract. It's a query I want asked did we pay for development of pak fa or we pay it after the signing of the deal

 

[sancho]

I mean without finalising contract how can budget is allowed for this project .except intial payment.
did we pay them after signing the contract. It's a query I want asked did we pay for development of pak fa or we pay it after the signing of the deal

No we only pay for the development of FGFA and the necessary prototypes, but as said there were changes in the plans in the mean time, Russia still develops and goes for the early version of Pak Fa alone and we don't pay for that. But the latter version might be a joint project now and all work on that must be jointly funded.

 

[NKVD]

No we only pay for the development of FGFA and the necessary prototypes, but as said there were changes in the plans in the mean time, Russia still develops and goes for the early version of Pak Fa alone and we don't pay for that. But the latter version might be a joint project now and all work on that must be jointly funded.

Basically we paid 295 millions which less as for project which we know will go upto 50 billion by 2020. From 30 billion projected in 2011. still people hoping to get hand on Russian pak fa which belongs to Russians without paying singal penny

 

[sancho]

No Indian expert or pilot has had a long hard look at the PAK-FA jet to date.

Former IAF Air Chief Naik (2nd from left) next to Sukhoi Chief Pogosyan, visiting Russia in 2011, taking a closer look on upgraded Mig 29s and the T50 prototypes:

For instance, the Indian Air Force had made it clear last year that it was not satisfied with the engine of the new fighter

=>

23/09/2011

The Air Force has selected engines for India's promising fighter FGFA, produced jointly with the Russian design bureau "Dry" based on the T-50 (PAK FA) . What kind of power plants is in question did not specify. We know only that the selected engines will be more powerful than the AL-41F1 ("Item 117"), which will be installed on the Russian T-50 in the first stage.

India has chosen engines for fighter FGFA

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

The Russians are not allowing Indian pilots to fly the aircraft, claiming foreign pilots are barred from flying in their airspace.

Putin lets Russian airlines hire foreign pilots| Reuters

 

[HariPrasad]

Another Western Propaganda Based Article.Nice try . Whats your views @sancho @Abingdonboy @HariPrasad @sreekumar @Star Wars @gslv

We witness this sort of news too often. Russia has abide by agreement and always provided TOT. There is a lots of odd is written in media about FAGFA also. However Russia just declared that design of front potion of FAGFA is coplete. Middle part design will began soon. Media keeps on writting anything. In LRSAM project, a lots of odd was written but the project is in final stage and final trial are there this month.

 

[rcrmj]

Russian version Induction is in December 2016 As for your Poor IQ

yeah,sure 2016, lol```come here again in Dec 2016, will always be a laughing stock

 

[cirr]

Simple facts

1. India has no capability to manufacture a quality 4.5++ let alone a 5th generation aircraft.

2. Russia knows this so they will make us pay more and give less workload. This is logical like someone paying money while other person assembles science project.

3. Pakfa will come 3rd after f 22 and f 35 respectively as one of the best 5th gen fighters of next decade. J 20 does'nt count as so far it brings nothing new to the table in terms of 5th gen.

Pakfa gives 240 degree AESA and 3d Tvc as well as rcs of 0.01 msq.

4. Even J 20 had a system failure if you google it.This is a common thing in fighter development. Less said about F 35 the better.

6. The program is very much on track and a 100% mature PAKFA will be available for IAF by 2022.

 

[sancho]

yeah,sure 2016, lol```come here again in Dec 2016, will always be a laughing stock

Doesn't that depend on the Russian requirements? They didn't demanded new engines but want to use the 117S, AESA is ready developed and integrated, electro optics and EW further developed from latest Flanker and Mig versions and integrated, weapon upgrades going on, LDP under development for some time now. So what actually is limiting them to induct the fighter in 2016, if it fulfills their requirements?

 

[Omega007]

If its true We need to know it and hence good News, We Need to try To built Design Only Design For Fifth Gen for bigger fighter than AMCA What to say? Might be there is flame out of Engine but if reply is this We are Concerned. Though I am optimistic about its success, as Russia is always come with extraordinary, but now time to in together not alone.

Not possible with the level of experience (or the lack of it) of our country in this particular field.

based on current Russia's ability on developing modern cutting edge weapon systems, Su-35 will be their finally star of their decade long show, they will never make T-50 a true 5th gen stealth fighter, even if they did it, by the time, the sky could be dominated by Chinese and Americans sixth gen fighters.

sounds funny isnt ? but it is the truth

Another one of those nincompoops who were fed with a truck load of rat serum in his infancy.

 

[hkdas]

Which however is not our doing but of the Russians, since Brahmos is based on their Yakhont P800. We jointly developed an upgraded version of that missile, where our contribution lies in some of the fields you mentioned, mainly the software. So just as in FGFA, we co-own both, we implement things that we have, we apply both according to our needs, we can modify both if we want, we have access to techs and we jointly further develop both to the next level!
So without the Russians, no Brahmos and not 5th gen fighter development for us.

bro, don't underestimate our R&D. the navigational systems, software, material used by that missile is developed by us. the the ability of brahmos to strike the targets hidden behind a structure is developed by our scientists. india never says they will give the already developed systems to pak fa/fgfa. they want to jointly develop the technology for FGFA. they want to change the structure of pakfa and make FGFA more stealthier and more advance in avionics also. russia is not allowing indian scientist in designing the fighter, but we are providing funds for the fighter.

 

[sancho]

bro, don't underestimate our R&D. the navigational systems, software, material used by that missile is developed by us. the the ability of brahmos to strike the targets hidden behind a structure is developed by our scientists. india never says they will give the already developed systems to pak fa/fgfa. they want to jointly develop the technology for FGFA. they want to change the structure of pakfa and make FGFA more stealthier and more advance in avionics also. russia is not allowing indian scientist in designing the fighter, but we are providing funds for the fighter.

I am not underestimating, but looking at things in a more rational way. Yes we have gained good know how in certain areas, which will help us in Nirbhay development for example, but that doesn't make us able to develop a Brahmos on our own. We even have gained some good knowledge in the LCA project on materials, coatings and avionics, but still are far away from having designed, developed and inducted a modern fighter. So we have to put things in perspective!
We can't design FGFA, since we still have huge problems in basic aircraft design in India. Be it Saras, IJT or LCA, all suffering from design issues, which makes it a simple fact, that we can't contribute to FGFA design more, than designing the twin seat cockpit (now at a later stage). That however doesn't mean that we can't replace airframe parts that the Russians initially designed, with parts that includes other materials in FGFA, nor that we can't integrate Indian displays into the FGFA cockpit for example.