T-129 - Pakistan signs biggest ever defence exports deal of Turkish history

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

How is a line of credit different from a loan? Or are they the same thing? Pardon my ignorance on the subject.

It's a loan, but it'll go to TAI (etc) to get the work started for the industry. The actual delivery to Pakistan would be contingent on repaying the Turkish Gov't. If not, then the Turks will keep the aircraft for themselves or sell it to someone else. It's risky for the Turks, but I don't think the T129 would be unwanted inventory for them (they could exercise their optional orders).

 

[IceCold]

It's a loan.

Thanks. Just another quickie is Turkey in a position to offer us a Line of credit with all that is going on there?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Thanks. Just another quickie is Turkey in a position to offer us a Line of credit with all that is going on there?

I think so. Unlike us they're an OECD state (and a Newly Industrialized Country or NIC), so the capital and stakes they work with are much bigger than ours. Also, it's the Turkish Gov't that's giving the loan out of its own budget, not some bank.

Practically, this money isn't going to Pakistan, it's heading straight to the Turkish industries to get work started for Pakistani orders. The main risk for Turkey isn't Pakistan repaying them (they'll only deliver when we pay), but having unwanted inventory. I don't think the T129 would be an issue for them though.

 

[Asian.Century]

Wow great!

But so expensive $1.5 billion for 30 helicopters = $50 million per helicopter.

What US Apaches would have been cheaper.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Wow great!

But so expensive $1.5 billion for 30 helicopters = $50 million per helicopter.

What US Apaches would have been cheaper.

Apaches are not on offer

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Available options on Table

Z-10 (China)
Z-19 (China)
Mi-35M (Russia)
T129 (Turkey)
Augusta (Italy) - Transport/Gunship

 

[Muhammad Omar]

After T-129 Pakistan should also try to get this helicopter from China specially for border patrolling and patrolling areas of Balochistan

Z-11 WB

 

[Malik Alashter]

After T-129 Pakistan should also try to get this helicopter from China specially for border patrolling and patrolling areas of Balochistan

Z-11 WB

View attachment 475739 View attachment 475740

For a billion and a half pakistan could get 100 of this z-11 with ToT plus at least 16 z-10

 

[jupiter2007]

For a billion and a half pakistan could get 100 of this z-11 with ToT plus at least 16 z-10

It’s easy to write BS because it doesn’t cost anything. You are comparing Nissan Datsun to BMW...well maybe not Datsun but not even close to BMW.
Chinese are your chacha’s friend that they will give TOT just because you want it. It ain’t cotton candy . We have strong friendship with China but they don’t give anything for free.

Available options on Table

Z-10 (China)
Z-19 (China)
Mi-35M (Russia)
T129 (Turkey)
Augusta (Italy) - Transport/Gunship

These options for different role..
Pakistan chose Turkish T129 which was developed based on Agusta A129 Mangust.
Chinese z-10 came as second option. If T129 deal have failed, Pakistan would have gone for Z-10. Chinese z-19 is lighter helicopter and does not fit the current requirement.
Mi-35M is for different role.

 

[帅的一匹]

For a billion and a half pakistan could get 100 of this z-11 with ToT plus at least 16 z-10

Brother, Z10 will come when push comes to shove.

 

[PAR 5]

The Turks are providing a line-of-credit for the T129 and MILGEM.

My guess is that the actual production of both is staged 2-3 years from now - i.e. will only start when we complete the first required installments. As the Turkish industry is busy with fulfilling domestic orders, they're in no rush to get to Pakistan.

If that is indeed the case, then this may just work

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Since budget for the fiscal year 2018-19 has been announced just recently, deal will now be announced as well but current Govt tenure is coming to an end so we may see further delay of few months.

 

[Signalian]

The Mi-28 is simply overkill and will be more expensive to run, plus has lower service and hover ceiling, so not ideally suited for Pakistan's COIN needs.

Lower Hover ceiling as in operation in high altitude?

Because if thats the case, then bear in mind that IAF couldnt use Mi-24 in Kargil war at high altitude. And Pakistan got Mi-35 for COIN war which might be at high altitude in northern KPK regions.

Your statement is about Mi-28 i know, but then Mi-35 doesnt also add up to high altitude COIN war.

 

[bsruzm]

Z-10? Never heard of her.

 

[Shabi1]

Lower Hover ceiling as in operation in high altitude?

Because if thats the case, then bear in mind that IAF couldnt use Mi-24 in Kargil war at high altitude. And Pakistan got Mi-35 for COIN war which might be at high altitude in northern KPK regions.

Your statement is about Mi-28 i know, but then Mi-35 doesnt also add up to high altitude COIN war.

You can check wikipedia for ceilings both Mi-24 and Mi-28 have lower figures than T-129, AH-1Z and WZ-10.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24#Flight_characteristics

Mi-28 high altitude performance was one of it's drawbacks highlighted in the Afghan war. Mi-35 addresses this issue with weight reductions (notably smaller wings and fixed landing gear), better main rotor, X shaped tail rotor (better survivability for hits) and optimization in power plant for hot and high conditions.

Wikipedia ceiling for Mi-24 is 4900meter and below link shows 5700m for Mi-35

http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/mi_35m.htm
"The Mi-35M has a number of improvements. It differs from the basic model by main rotor system of the Mi-28 and X-shape tail rotor. Main rotor's fiberglass blades have new aerodynamic profile. These are lighter but stronger due to titanium details. Helicopter also has upgraded turboshaft engines. Flight performance such as altitude and maneuverability improved due to these changes. Stub wings were shortened in order to reduce weight. Wings have a number of hardpoints for weapons and other uses.
Electronic core of the helicopter underwent fundamental modifications. A whole spectrum of new electronic systems were adopted in the cockpit. The Mi-35M is fitted with upgraded avionics and improved sensor package, including night vision system. Helicopter is also fitted with electro-optical rangefinder/targeting system with thermal imaging guidance channel, satellite positioning and navigation system, electronic multifunction displays, onboard computer and new generation jam-proof communications equipment."