T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

[Seyfullah]

What’s important missing is PNVS equivalent independent system as in the US Apache’s for pilot rather than shared as present

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How do you know it is missing?

 

[Hexciter]

How do you know it is missing?

Show me then it is not

 

[Seyfullah]

Show me then it is not

that is the whole point that we do NOT know what ATAK 2 is going to have and what not!

 

[cabatli_53]

 

[neosinan]

@cabatli_53 we all know this is initial design, and final product gonna have change a lot along the way.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

This is all fine and dandy but the question I keep ending up asking myself is this: Do we really need a heavier gunship? Wouldn't it be better to just have a lot more Atak-1s and armed drones instead?

 

[revojam]

This is all fine and dandy but the question I keep ending up asking myself is this: Do we really need a heavier gunship?

Wouldn't it be better to just have a lot more Atak-1s and armed drones?

T-129 windows not resistant againts AK-47 bulllet you know that right? We certainly need heavier armored atack heli.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

T-129 windows not resistant againts AK-47 bulllet you know that right? We certainly need heavier armored atack heli.

How do you figure T-129 isn't resistant to 7.62?

 

[TheMightyBender]

This is all fine and dandy but the question I keep ending up asking myself is this: Do we really need a heavier gunship? Wouldn't it be better to just have a lot more Atak-1s and armed drones instead?

That is the grim reality of defence industry. You either keep going forward or you start going backward. In order to keep the defence industry alive you always need to have some projects, whether you need it or not. I am not saying we don't need atak-2, I don't have an opinion on that yet, I am jsut talking about the inevitable.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

That is the grim reality of defence industry. You either keep going forward or you start going backward. In order to keep the defence industry alive you always need to have some projects, whether you need it or not. I am not saying we don't need atak-2, I don't have an opinion on that yet, I am jsut talking about the inevitable.

Brother Bender, I understand the reflex to add a new/improved product but at the end of the day it has to make sense and serve a real need. Afterall, we're not the US, we have a limited amount of resources. We need to figure out how to best make use of our budget to maximize the capabilities gained per dollar spent. Certainly, this has to take into account the cost-benefit of any new tech gained and jobs created but these can also be gained by investing in products Turkey needs more.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that quantity has a quality of its own. More often than not, it makes more sense to have more of the same instead of spending a lot of money to introduce a marginally improved model. This can be better from a logistics/supply/training point of view too.

 

[TheMightyBender]

Brother Bender, I understand the reflex to add a new/improved product but at the end of the day it has to make sense and serve a real need. Afterall, we're not the US, we have a limited amount of resources. We need to figure out how to best make use of our budget to maximize the capabilities gained per dollar spent. Certainly, this has to take into account the cost-benefit of any new tech gained and jobs created but these can also be gained by investing in products Turkey needs more.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that quantity has a quality of its own. More often than not, it makes more sense to have more of the same instead of spending a lot of money to introduce a marginally improved model. This can be better from a logistics/supply/training point of view too.

You are absolutely right. From an economic standpoint that makes a lot of sense. However by producing more of the same design you are employing only the technicians and some manufacturing engineers that produce the airplane, not the design engineers. Even if you don't give R&D projects, the company will have to spend its earnings from sales of the existing design to fund new designs.
Simultaneously you need to keep your design and analysis engineers busy so that they stay sharp.
Indeed, if you are inevitably going to invest in new R&D project you have to invest in the ones that have the best cost/benefit ratio, but what I am trying to say is that sometimes you will have to buy products that you wouldn't normally buy just to keep your industry alive.
This is evident from SAAB, for example. The money they make supplying sweden with jets and marginal exports is not enough to keep them running, so sweden usually buys more airplanes than it needs to keep them alive.

 

[bedbin]

In opinion we should focus on UAVS, instead of wasting time and money on italian based design.
But.. I would respect them. If they were going to design something from scracht..with the needs of our army

 

[OguzSenturk]

T-129 windows not resistant againts AK-47 bulllet you know that right?

This is complete bullshit.

AK bullet is lucky enough if it could reach 2km altitute with any meaningful energy and collision with the windows, let alone penetrate it and then penetrate human flesh

 

[-------]

This is complete bullshit.

AK bullet is lucky enough if it could reach 2km altitute with any meaningful energy and collision with the windows, let alone penetrate it and then penetrate human flesh

Your both correct. The only bulletproof glass on T-129 are the forward facing ones. The side windows are acrylic. Same is true of AH-64 and Eurocopter.

 

[OguzSenturk]

According to google, ak-47's bullet can travel 800m before losing all the energy (it may be more if the rifleman is on the hill and fire down to the targets, but helicopter is flying above him). Let's say T129 flying around 500m-800m instead of 2+km next to PKK Terrorists

Even if PKK's ak-47 man is sooo lucky to hit helicopter's cockpit window while helicopter is moving, it will not has any meaningful energy to penetrate the window after 500m-800m travel of the bullet It would give a "rock hitting window" effect lol, probably pilot wouldnt even hear the sound of AK-47 bullet hitting window because of engine sound