Syrian Civil War (Graphic Photos/Vid Not Allowed)

[notorious_eagle]

Putin was tallking about Novorossia from Odessa to Charkiv (all orange territory), but all ended in that tiny piece near Russian border.

Intentions and reality. The Russians are happy with what they got, sizeable land and population to continuously destabilize Ukraine unless it falls back into the Russian Orbit. That's good enough for Russia.

Ukrainian army is very poorly trained. They had not any conflict in past 23 years so they did nothing.

Some of their Units were very highly trained, but were completely routed by the Rebels. Poorly Trained Overall yes but Under equipped, Hell No.

Outmanoeuvred and outfought by the enemy.

SAA are locals in Tartus and Latakia, not in Idlib and Aleppo.

True, but i have a hard time believing that Syria's once Secular People will be actively supporting Al Qaeda in Idlib. Last what i read, Aleppo is still very heavily contested and the Government holds the most important parts of the city. It appears to me that Assad's goals have changed to only holding the most important economic viable areas and letting the gutter go to the rebels.

Let's see how long these Rebels last against a Disciplined Foe. Let's see how many casualties they can sustain when upgraded infantry and armour are advancing in tight formations; artillery, gunships and flankers are pounding them with deadly accuracy. They have been encircled, and for once their enemy has reconned the entire area, thus no deadly surprises for the enemy. As i said before, the Rebels in Syria are yet to face a disciplined foe and this might just be about to change.

They have been advising since very beginning. Do u think Syria air force, for example would be still operable without massive Russian help?

Sir

Maybe on Technical Level but not on Operational Level. If the Russians were, i don't think SAA would perform as horribly as it has been. One only needs to look at their Infantry or Tanker Crews in action, the amount of indiscipline is simply astonishing.

I am talking about adding an Advisor on a Company Level, if that happens believe me the efficiency of SAA will improve by many folds.

Russia lost 12 thousand troops fighting in tiny 1 million encircled Chechnya. Eventually they bribed one of the Chechen commanders so he is doing there whatever he wishes.

Syria is 22 million country - 22 times more than Chechnya.

Sir

That is not a good comparison at all. Let me elaborate:

First of all, this is not the Russian Army of the 90's. The Army that fought in Chechnya was only a shadow of the Mighty Soviet Army. Russian Troops were selling their weapons to the Rebels to make a quick buck. Their Officer Corps was rotten to the stench. It was a Conscript Army, and not a Professional One. That is not the case now. This is by far the strongest Army we have seen Russia has fielded since the collapse of the Soviet Union. This was evident in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Their discipline, equipment and tactics were a testament to their reforms. The reason why i was impressed is because they learned from their mistakes in 2008, even though they won, they still went back to the drawing board and worked on their weaknesses. Now that is a sign of a Good Professional Army. The Russians might not make the best cars or food, but history is witness to the fact that they do make damn good Armies.

Second, Syria is not Chechnya. Syrians don't have the same stomach to fight a war like the Chechens were willing too. Not every civilian in Syria is a soldier unlike in Chechnya. Mothers are not willing to strap bombs on themselves and their kids to blow up the enemy. Also, i have not seen the FSA fight against the enemy with the same ferocity as the Chechens did. ISIS and Nusra might fight with the same ferocity but they lack the discipline the Chechens have. Some of the videos i have seen of Nusra and ISIS in action, they are simply spraying bullets up in the Air hoping one of them hits the enemy.

Thus, i believe this is not a correct comparison. Syria is not Chechnya, and this Russian Army is not the same you saw in the 1990's. I don't like Putin as a person, but he must be credited for the reforms he brought to the Armed Forces.

@Bratva Read Above

 

[ultron]

Russian satellite imagery giving SAA a boost. SAA captured Tal SyriaTel from ISIS.

Russian Satellite Imagery Helps the Syrian Army Progress in Palmyra: Tal SyriaTel Captured

Putin was tallking about Novorossia from Odessa to Charkiv (all orange territory), but all ended in that tiny piece near Russian border.

In the framework of the UN, such a move would for sure lead to WW3, not a good outcome for everyone. This tiny piece is not so tiny. Israel sized.

Russia lost 12 thousand troops

5,000 is a far cry from 12,000

Russian drones reported started hunting for Qaeda targets in Idlib

 

[500]

Intentions and reality. The Russians are happy with what they got, sizeable land and population to continuously destabilize Ukraine unless it falls back into the Russian Orbit. That's good enough for Russia.

In reailty they could not capture much.

Some of their Units were very highly trained, but were completely routed by the Rebels. Poorly Trained Overall yes but Under equipped, Hell No.

No there is not a single well trained Ukrainian unit. Their best units in war are volunteer self made nationalist brigades like Azov

True, but i have a hard time believing that Syria's once Secular People will be actively supporting Al Qaeda in Idlib.

Idlib and especially Jabl Zavia is Nusra stronghold. They were one of he first to kick Assad forces out.

Besides after all Assad brutality you dont have to be Islamist to fight him. Any normal person would do anything to get rid of that bloody maniac.

Last what i read, Aleppo is still very heavily contested and the Government holds the most important parts of the city. It appears to me that Assad's goals have changed to only holding the most important economic viable areas and letting the gutter go to the rebels.

Assad keeps huge forces in semi encircled city. What he is hoping for - hell knows. Same he was keeping forces in Idlib for 3 years until it collapsed.

Let's see how long these Rebels last against a Disciplined Foe. Let's see how many casualties they can sustain when upgraded infantry and armour are advancing in tight formations; artillery, gunships and flankers are pounding them with deadly accuracy. They have been encircled, and for once their enemy has reconned the entire area, thus no deadly surprises for the enemy. As i said before, the Rebels in Syria are yet to face a disciplined foe and this might just be about to change.

Syria is like 22 Checnyas. It would be a total suicide for Russia to attack in these areas.

I am talking about adding an Advisor on a Company Level, if that happens believe me the efficiency of SAA will improve by many folds.

I repeat: all Russian force with all Russian officers and all Russian soldiers lost 12,000 fighting in tiny Chechna, what makes u think that putting Russian officer among Arab speakers will make magics and wonders? How they will communicate? Pantomime? And if Saudis offer 100,000$ for Russian officer how long it will take before they sell him to rebels?

First of all, this is not the Russian Army of the 90's. The Army that fought in Chechnya was only a shadow of the Mighty Soviet Army. Russian Troops were selling their weapons to the Rebels to make a quick buck. Their Officer Corps was rotten to the stench. It was a Conscript Army, and not a Professional One. That is not the case now. This is by far the strongest Army we have seen Russia has fielded since the collapse of the Soviet Union. This was evident in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Their discipline, equipment and tactics were a testament to their reforms. The reason why i was impressed is because they learned from their mistakes in 2008, even though they won, they still went back to the drawing board and worked on their weaknesses. Now that is a sign of a Good Professional Army. The Russians might not make the best cars or food, but history is witness to the fact that they do make damn good Armies.

In Second Chechen war they lost same amount as in first, although they bribed two large Chechen clans (Kadirov and Yamadaev).

Second, Syria is not Chechnya. Syrians don't have the same stomach to fight a war like the Chechens were willing too.

Where from u get that idea? Look how Syrians are storming Assad fortifications without artillery and tanks. Check Jobar or Daraya where they are completely encircled for over 2 years, barrel bombed as hell yet still hold their position. Or right now in small Zabadani, where Assad dropped 10 barrell bombs on each building and attacks with waunted hezbollah and Russian advisers.

 

[ultron]

Idlib and especially Jabl Zavia is Nusra stronghold. They were one of he first to kick Assad forces out.

SAA held Idlib for four years before they were kicked out. It's certainly not because of the population there, but because of Qaeda human wave attack which resulted in 100 Qaedas killed for every SAA. It's like what Chinese did in Korea. When they come running at your firing machine gun, stepping over the bodies of their fallen, you know you are in d s

Syria is like 22 Checnyas. It would be a total suicide for Russia to attack in these areas.

Russians do air strikes. There won't be anything rebels can do about that because they cannot take Latakia. Germany was crushed by Russian fire power. I'd be surprised if rebels can withstand it.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Putin was tallking about Novorossia from Odessa to Charkiv (all orange territory), but all ended in that tiny piece near Russian border.


Ukrainian army is very poorly trained. They had not any conflict in past 23 years so they did nothing.


SAA are locals in Tartus and Latakia, not in Idlib and Aleppo.


They have been advising since very beginning. Do u think Syria air force, for example would be still operable without massive Russian help?


Russia lost 12 thousand troops fighting in tiny 1 million encircled Chechnya. Eventually they bribed one of the Chechen commanders so he is doing there whatever he wishes.

Syria is 22 million country - 22 times more than Chechnya.

What Russia wanted was Crimea the rest was not Russian intention that was something just happened.

 

[ultron]

What Russia wanted was Crimea the rest was not Russian intention that was something just happened.

Crimea was a part of Russia until it was illegally transferred to Ukraine by Krushev as a gift. Russia got it back just like Germany got Sudetenland back from Czechoslovakia.

Assad missile attack killed at least 18 people in rebel held part of Aleppo

Activists say missile attack kills 18 in northern Syria city - Yahoo News

 

[notorious_eagle]

In reailty they could not capture much.

They wanted Crimea, and enough land in Ukraine to destabilize Ukraine. They got both.

No there is not a single well trained Ukrainian unit. Their best units in war are volunteer self made nationalist brigades like Azov

That is not correct Sir. The 1st and 17th Armoured Brigade are quite decent, and their Special Forces are very well equipped and trained. You cannot dismiss the Ukrainians like that.

Idlib and especially Jabl Zavia is Nusra stronghold. They were one of he first to kick Assad forces out.

Besides after all Assad brutality you dont have to be Islamist to fight him. Any normal person would do anything to get rid of that bloody maniac.

Its a no brainer, compare what Syria is now and what it was before the war, i am sure everyone will take Syria before the war. No matter what you say about Assad, Syria was a prosperous and a stable nation compared to what it is surrounded by. Al Nusra are a bunch of fanatics, killers. They cannot govern or deliver basic services to the masses, they can only deliver war and bloodshed.

Assad keeps huge forces in semi encircled city. What he is hoping for - hell knows. Same he was keeping forces in Idlib for 3 years until it collapsed.

As i said before, horrible tactics and strategy. If the Russians join the party, this will change.

Syria is like 22 Checnyas. It would be a total suicide for Russia to attack in these areas.

So far from what we have seen, your assessment is wrong. Syria hasn't come close to being something like Chechnya.

I repeat: all Russian force with all Russian officers and all Russian soldiers lost 12,000 fighting in tiny Chechna, what makes u think that putting Russian officer among Arab speakers will make magics and wonders? How they will communicate? Pantomime? And if Saudis offer 100,000$ for Russian officer how long it will take before they sell him to rebels?

Russian Army of the 1990's, not of 2015. Russian Officers commanding and leading SAA will make for a very formidable enemy. As i said before, what SAA is lacking is leadership and trained Officers and this is where the Russians will excel in.

In Second Chechen war they lost same amount as in first, although they bribed two large Chechen clans (Kadirov and Yamadaev).

Militarily, they stood victorious in the Second War although at a Great Cost but as i said before, this is not the Russian Army of the 1990's. This is the Russian Army of 2015, you're comparing Apples to Oranges.

Where from u get that idea? Look how Syrians are storming Assad fortifications without artillery and tanks. Check Jobar or Daraya where they are completely encircled for over 2 years, barrel bombed as hell yet still hold their position. Or right now in small Zabadani, where Assad dropped 10 barrell bombs on each building and attacks with waunted hezbollah and Russian advisers.

You just validated my argument. The SAA has been horribly lacking in strategy and tactics, this is where the Russians will fill in. They will not do the door to door fighting, but they will advise them on a Company Level. SAA should be able to blast the Rebels attacking them without any artillery or tanks, but they are not which clearly means they lack the leadership.

This fighting is still not on the same level that we saw in Chechnya. We don't see Mothers strapping themselves with bombs, we don't see kids being strapped with bombs. Not every civilian is a soldier, 11 million Syrians have left Syria because they don't want to fight. That was not the case in Chechnya where every civilian wanted to kill Russians.

 

[ultron]

Syria is no Chechnya, and Nusra is no SS. Russian satellite intel and air power are going to make a huge difference, essentially tip the balance. Let's not forget Assad has some of the biggest cities like Damascus, western Aleppo, the coast, Homs, Hama, Daraa, Deir es Zor, Hasakah, Qamishli. Rebels only have Raqqah, Palmyra, Idlib, eastern Aleppo.

Let's not forget SAA is 200,000 strong, half of which are hardcore NDF. This is several times the size of the USSR allied Afghan army during the Afghanistan war. On top of this, Mahdi Army and Hezbollah are fearsome allies of SAA.

Russians won't be doing ground warfare. They'll only do air strikes. Rebels have nothing that can hit Russian aircraft. This is going to be extremely demoralizing for rebels.

 

[ultron]

Breaking: SAA captured Al Kassarat near Damascus with the help of Russian satellite imagery.

Syrian Army Recaptures Al-Kassarat Near the Syrian Capital

 

[500]

They wanted Crimea, and enough land in Ukraine to destabilize Ukraine. They got both.

Not sure where from u have intel info, but i've seen Putin himself talking about Novorossia from Odessa to Kharkiv.

That is not correct Sir. The 1st and 17th Armoured Brigade are quite decent, and their Special Forces are very well equipped and trained. You cannot dismiss the Ukrainians like that.

This is how Ukrainian tankers were training:

Its a no brainer, compare what Syria is now and what it was before the war, i am sure everyone will take Syria before the war. No matter what you say about Assad, Syria was a prosperous and a stable nation compared to what it is surrounded by. Al Nusra are a bunch of fanatics, killers. They cannot govern or deliver basic services to the masses, they can only deliver war and bloodshed.

Before Assads came to power governments in Syria were changing every weekend and there was no problem. But Assad decided to stay in power at all cost, even literally drowning whole country in blood. So first it was revolution for better life and freedom, now its simply about removing bloody psychopath maniac.

As i said before, horrible tactics and strategy. If the Russians join the party, this will change.

Russia joined the party since the beginning. If you think Russians are going to fight in Idlib mountains, you are wrong and if u think that Russians are some kind of magic you are even more wrong.

So far from what we have seen, your assessment is wrong. Syria hasn't come close to being something like Chechnya.

You are right. Judging Jobar and Daraya performance Syria is far more than Chechnya.

Russian Army of the 1990's, not of 2015. Russian Officers commanding and leading SAA will make for a very formidable enemy. As i said before, what SAA is lacking is leadership and trained Officers and this is where the Russians will excel in.

I am talking about second Russian war Chechna which was in 2000-es. They lost 6000 soldiers in tiny country, destroyed it totally killing tens of thousands civilians and then paid billions of bribe to Chechen warlords which killed Russians.

Militarily, they stood victorious in the Second War although at a Great Cost but as i said before, this is not the Russian Army of the 1990's. This is the Russian Army of 2015, you're comparing Apples to Oranges.

See above.

You just validated my argument. The SAA has been horribly lacking in strategy and tactics, this is where the Russians will fill in. They will not do the door to door fighting, but they will advise them on a Company Level. SAA should be able to blast the Rebels attacking them without any artillery or tanks, but they are not which clearly means they lack the leadership.

As I said Russia performed very poorly in Chechnya. Why do u think that one Russian soldier in company talking pantomima language with Arabs around him will turn them into Rambos - I really dont know.

This fighting is still not on the same level that we saw in Chechnya. We don't see Mothers strapping themselves with bombs, we don't see kids being strapped with bombs. Not every civilian is a soldier, 11 million Syrians have left Syria because they don't want to fight. That was not the case in Chechnya where every civilian wanted to kill Russians.

These are myth. In 1 million Chechnya there ere some 20 k active fighters.They were very poorly armed and mostly poorly trained as well.

 

[ultron]

Not sure where from u have intel info, but i've seen Putin himself talking about Novorossia from Odessa to Kharkiv.

Do you have a source? From what I read, Putin clearly stated he would not take any other Ukrainian land beyond Crimea. Can't find the article anymore

 

[500]

Do you have a source? From what I read, Putin clearly stated he would not take any other Ukrainian land beyond Crimea. Can't find the article anymore

 

[Kebapçı Erhan]

+1

Russia is shooting themselves in their own foot again.

Afghanistan 2.0.

We have enough minorities in Turkey who are not integrated, can't speak propper Turkish. No offense but I wouldn't want more minorities who wouldn't want to integrate and just be a drag on our economy without being one of us. Sen Turk musun?

I am a Turk.

 

[ultron]

well, looky here

Yea right. Taking over a part of a country is absolutely insane in this day and age. Israel only annexed Golan after the Arab Israel wars. What right does Russia have to annex part of Ukraine? Then again, the Ukraine story is not over. It remains to be seen what happens in the future.

 

[xenon54 out]

Yea right. Taking over a part of a country is absolutely insane in this day and age. Israel only annexed Golan after the Arab Israel wars. What right does Russia have to annex part of Ukraine? Then again, the Ukraine story is not over. It remains to be seen what happens in the future.

One question, have you been living under a rock the past 2 years?