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Syed.Ali.Haider and Murtaza

Are you a doctor?

What does it matter?

Dr. Ali Haider was actively involved in shia processions and a shia mosque etc....you know the kind of place where they say stuff on loud speakers....and then there's jawabi loud speaker karwai.....then things heat up and people from the weaker side end up dead.

Good thing loud speaker nonsense is now banned.

So much intolerance........

What does it matter what Ali did in private? Why should his, or anyone else's religious views, make them liable to be injured or killed? Why?

While this definitely can be argued as having been an important contributing factor but this is not the central cause.

The central cause is the existence and support for the ideology of Takfir. Even on this forum where almost every Muslim is supposedly educated and English speaking, the support for Takfir is very strong, whether directly or indirectly or whether of active or apologetic nature.

Unless and until Takfir is not countered straight on and without taking into consideration any "niceties" or "political/religious correctness", the problem will continue.

As is often the case whether in real world or here, it is the anti-Takfiris who are on defensive and have to explain themselves while the Takfiris roam around proud.........

It is not just takfir, but an overall environment of increasing intolerance, not just over religion, but politics as well, as the all of Pakistani society slowly drives itself ever madder.
 
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It is not just takfir, but an overall environment of increasing intolerance, not just over religion, but politics as well, as the all of Pakistani society slowly drives itself ever madder.

Intolerance exists everywhere. I do not see how for example some one like Trump symbolizes "tolerance". This is not a core issue. This is just semantics.

The core issue is Takfir. Because this gives the followers of a certain ideology, a powerful religious tool for justifying the killing of those whom the intolerant bunch see as their "oppressors". In societies where Takfir type of ideologies do not exist, intolerance does not give rise to killings but to a lively political life. In societies where Takfir rationalizes the reprehensible senseless killings of innocents, even ordinary and mundane "intolerance" which is part of human nature causes mass killings.

Until and unless the primary tumor of Takfir is not removed, worrying over the little ones like the "lack of education", "lack of tolerance", "poverty", "law and order" and etc is just palliative. It wont solve the problem.
 
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What does it matter what Ali did in private? Why should his, or anyone else's religious views, make them liable to be injured or killed? Why?

I just pointed out why I think militants must have targeted him...

Stop apologizing on behalf of Takfiris and their pathetic deeds.

Where did I apologize....?

And btw these shias are almost as intolerant when it comes to religion as sunnis...All religious people are extremely intolerant...

Perhaps practicing religion publicly should be banned until pakistanis can learn to tolerate other people.
 
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Intolerance exists everywhere. I do not see how for example some one like Trump symbolizes "tolerance". This is not a core issue. This is just semantics.

The core issue is Takfir. Because this gives the followers of a certain ideology, a powerful religious tool for justifying the killing of those whom the intolerant bunch see as their "oppressors". In societies where Takfir type of ideologies do not exist, intolerance does not give rise to killings but to a lively political life. In societies where Takfir rationalizes the reprehensible senseless killings of innocents, even ordinary and mundane "intolerance" which is part of human nature causes mass killings.

Until and unless the primary tumor of Takfir is not removed, worrying over the little ones like the "lack of education", "lack of tolerance", "poverty", "law and order" and etc is just palliative. It wont solve the problem.

Without trying to further one particular agenda against any one sect, let me just say that nobody does intolerance as well as Pakistanis these days.

I just pointed out why I think militants must have targeted him...
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As if they need any excuse to kill someone.
 
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Without trying to further one particular agenda against any one sect, let me just say that nobody does intolerance as well as Pakistanis these days.

There you go.

Where did I apologize....?

And btw these shias are almost as intolerant when it comes to religion as sunnis...All religious people are extremely intolerant...

Perhaps practicing religion publicly should be banned until pakistanis can learn to tolerate other people.

The worst kind of apology is trying to rationalize acts committed by a pathetic ideology. And the last time I checked it is not Shias who blow themselves up in markets, mosques and kill doctors and engineers of other sects.

You can not even ban Takfir which is just a small part of a small adherents of a few sects in Islam and you wanna ban all religions including Islam? The stuff you are smoking is really strong. You gotta be careful. The risk of brain damage is real.
 
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That's easy to explain. Because they have inside help and because there is widespread support for them.

Precisely why the long term outlook for tolerance and stability remains hopeless.
 
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Precisely why the long term outlook for tolerance and stability remains hopeless.

Not only that. But even the eradication of polio is facing hopelessness. The same Takfiris are doing their best to save the polio virus from extinction. They say it is their religious duty to promote conservation of an infectious virus in the wild, by killing vaccination personnel.

You gotta love these guys and their apologists. If it was not for their thirst of human blood, they would be comically hilarious.


polio-map_1988-2014_616x312px.jpg


You have to kill the Ideology.

Bingo. Now the problem is how to kill a Takfiri ideology which is supported by Saudis and whose core values include but does not limit to "Boko-haram" meaning: Book is Haram?
 
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My dear Ali: Many still miss you and all that you represented. Rest in peace, my dear friend. May God bless you. ______.




Murtaza Haider is dead, does anyone care? - Blogs - DAWN.COM


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He was only 12-years old, full of life and promise. But that was on Sunday. Monday morning Murtaza Haider and his father, Dr Syed Ali Haider, were shot dead in a targeted attack by militants in an elite neighbourhood of Lahore.

Dr Ali Haider was a professor and the chair of the Ophthalmology Department at Lahore General Hospital. He was shot six times in the face, head, and other parts of his body. The learned doctor and his family had no enemies, yet the father and son were guilty of a cardinal sin in Pakistan. They were Shias.

Dr Haider was driving Murtaza to school Monday morning when two armed militants intercepted their vehicle and sprayed it with bullets. The police believe that their unprovoked murders were carried out by sectarian extremists.

This is what has become of Pakistan: Shia doctors, lawyers, parliamentarians, and children are being hunted down in the streets of large urban centres like Lahore, Karachi, and Peshawar. At the same time, Shia labourers, daily wage earners, street hawkers, and pilgrims travelling to Iran are taken off buses and shot in cold blood. And then there is indiscriminate bombings of Shia mosques and other gathering places.

In Quetta’s Hazara town, fear rules the streets. Mothers do not want their children to leave homes. Wives dread the thought of their husbands becoming another statistic in the never ending sectarian warfare declared on Shia Hazaras. I spoke with my cousin in Hazara Town and asked about how people were coping. He told me of a community under siege and numb by fear and pain.

Those who work for the government and live in Hazara Town do not go to work anymore. They are confined to their homes. The admin staff drops files at their homes in the morning and collects the same files later in the afternoon. Hazara Town has in fact become an open prison for many. The less fortunate ones still have to venture out of the town and risk death at every corner.

Needless to say, Pakistan can use some doctors, especially surgeons. Every doctor counts in Pakistan where there is less than one doctor per 1,000 people. Thus, killing them in cold blood does not make much sense for the welfare of ordinary Pakistanis. Dr Ali Haider was a renowned eye surgeon whose skilled and compassionate hands had restored the vision of countless patients. Dr Ali Haider had an unrivalled medical pedigree. He was the only son of another renowned surgeon and a professor of King Edward Medical University (KEMU), Dr Syed Zafar Haider. Dr Tahira Haider, his mother, also taught at KEMU, and his sister is also a medical doctor and an academic.

Dr Zafar Haider in his old age has to mourn the death of his son and grandson. While some may try to create doubts about the motives of the killers, Dr. Zafar Haider has no doubts. “My son has been killed for being a Shia and a dedicated follower of the Holy Prophet,” the grieving doctor told Dawn.

Earlier in the week, I wrote in the same space urging Shias of Quetta and Peshawar to either relocate to Lahore and Karachi, or better to seek asylum abroad. Many in their comments on Dawn’s website disagreed and accused me of caving in to the terrorists. Many expressed their commitment to strike back at the sectarian murderers. I am neither that naive nor that brave. The murder of Dr Haider and young Murtaza in fact further reinforces my belief that the life and property of Shias in Pakistan is no longer safe.

I also know that the State apparatus, including the police, intelligence agencies, and the courts, is incapable of arresting and convicting those involved in the guerilla warfare against the State using Shias as a target. Even when they are arrested, the courts failed to convict the sectarian terrorists. And while valiant police officers, such as SSP Ashraf Marth, laid their lives in pursuing militants, the courts could still not convict the alleged. Why? The three key eye witnesses in SSP Marth’s case, all police officers, recanted their earlier statements that implicated the accused. It is therefore, no surprise that some elements of the State have capitulated and were subsidising the families of the alleged sectarian militants while they were under arrest.

A few hours earlier at Toronto’s Nathan Phillips Square, I joined a few dozen protesters who had gathered yet again to protest the recent murder of Shia Hazaras in Quetta. It was only last month that a similar impromptu protest brought several hundred Pakistanis in Toronto to the same place where they protested the death of Shia Hazaras who were killed on January 10. Unlike the last time, the crowd in Toronto was much smaller and the sloganeering had a distinct defeatist tone. It appears that many had resigned to the fact that sectarian terrorism cannot be stopped in Pakistan.

Dr Syed Ali Haider spent his life restoring vision to those who could not see. In the end, he and his son, Murtaza Haider, were murdered by those blinded by sectarian hatred. Now it is up to the State to prove that it can deliver justice to the grieving family. Otherwise, the Haider family has no reason to stay in Pakistan and cure the very people who want to murder them.

Hi,

It has been over a year that you posted this news and started the thread----. With so much happening in the last 2 months and new evidence coming out----we are finding out that if we can commit to the cause and take a strong stand----sectarian terrorism can be negated----.

But it needs strength courage and determination----.

If I had the power---I would appoint the man known as Rahmat Hussein Jaffery as the chief judge to overlook the punishments of the killers and pass the judgement.
 
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While this definitely can be argued as having been an important contributing factor but this is not the central cause.

The central cause is the existence and support for the ideology of Takfir. Even on this forum where almost every Muslim is supposedly educated and English speaking, the support for Takfir is very strong, whether directly or indirectly or whether of active or apologetic nature.

Unless and until Takfir is not countered straight on and without taking into consideration any "niceties" or "political/religious correctness", the problem will continue.

As is often the case whether in real world or here, it is the anti-Takfiris who are on defensive and have to explain themselves while the Takfiris roam around proud.



Stop apologizing on behalf of Takfiris and their pathetic deeds.

What happens if someone start praising Muawviya Abu Bakr, Umar and start abusing Ali in tehran or in major shia areas through loud speakers ? Will it arouse people emotions or not ? or similarly start praising and circumambulating Yazeed grave like Shia does to Abu Lulu grave ?

Takfir exist because you never put end to abusing spree you started. Throwing stones at others but not circumspecting your own actions.Wow totally not a biased analysis.

What Islam need is to put down both Sunni and Shia takfiris in ground. This way Islam will see a peaceful century
 
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Hi,

It has been over a year that you posted this news and started the thread----. With so much happening in the last 2 months and new evidence coming out----we are finding out that if we can commit to the cause and take a strong stand----sectarian terrorism can be negated----.

But it needs strength courage and determination----.

If I had the power---I would appoint the man known as Rahmat Hussein Jaffery as the chief judge to overlook the punishments of the killers and pass the judgement.

It is too soon to tell whether the gains over the last few months will endure or not. I do not know about this man you mention, and would appreciate details if you can share them.
 
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Rest in peace .. This is tiny compared to what happened in karachi .. Shias were butchered here , and its done in a very calculated manner ... Professionals esp doctors missing the count but a very very high no of them were murdered , govt employees, business owners .. Political personalities & any one who is a little prominent in any way was murdered ... One can clearly see the pattern it was done to weaken the entire community .. No idea as in how many left the country but the numbers must be in thousands.. And not many are caught the ratio in my opinion 100:1
 
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What happens if someone start praising Muawviya Abu Bakr, Umar and start abusing Ali in tehran or in major shia areas through loud speakers ? Will it arouse people emotions or not ?

We should never be so quick to take offence, no matter who says what.
 
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