Sweden: "Turkey wants things we can't give"

[mike2000 is back]

No need visa to travel most of muslim Countries


btw There are around 5 million Turks in Europe .... Its enough for Turkiye
and Europe -USA has over $200 billion investment in Turkiye

They are so happy to work with Turkiye

Lol ok if you say so

 

[mike2000 is back]

Trading ethical goods is not haram (medicine, tech, food) trading for e.g alcohol would be.

Maybe you was being ironic

Of course not..but trying so hard to associate yourself with a grouping that has almost completely different beliefs/values with you is not haram? Especially when they are not trying as hard to do the same with other islamic countries, isnt that weird?
Moreover, opening themselves up completely (free trade and free movement) with this group will also allow more Haram things to move even more freely into Turkey than it does already(alcohol, prostitution, western values of liberalism etc etc). So I don't get their point.
If its just because they know joining the West will make them move forward, develop and prosper better with the West then it makes sense. However, some have been trying to potray it as something else, which i think that's the point i was trying to make.

 

[lightning F57]

Of course not..but trying so hard to associate yourself with a grouping that has almost completely different beliefs/values with you is not haram? Especially when they are not trying as hard to do the same with other islamic countries, isnt that weird?
Moreover, opening themselves up completely (free trade and free movement) with this group will also allow more Haram things to move even more freely into Turkey than it does already(alcohol, prostitution, western values of liberalism etc etc). So I don't get their point.
If its just because they know joining the West will make them move forward, develop and prosper better with the West then it makes sense. However, some have been trying to potray it as something else, which i think that's the point i was trying to make.

I think it's fair to say most states use religion when it helps and discard it when it doesnt.

 

[zectech]

You know what Erdogan did after the coup? He started sacking and arresting anyone he didn't like,accusing them of being FETO. Tens of thousands of military. Can tens of thousands be involved in a coup? It's ridiculous.

Some Turkish military officers and I think police too,fled to Greece and asked for political asylum. The Turkish government since then,has been demanding that we hand them over. They insist that they are "terrorists". it's ridiculous.

Going after the military for a coup against Turkey is one thing. Going after dissidents and free of speech is totally different. Kidnapping journalists over speech issues, often trumped up, is on the path to Russia and Putinism. In Russia, speak out and expose the corruption, and you are kidnapped. In Turkey, supporting minorities and you can get accused of things you never did. Both are totalitarian regimes.

Ferhat Parlak

Defendants: Ferhat Parlak Media Outlets and Positions: Silvan Mücadele newspaper - Owner, reporter Accusations: Membership of a terrorist organization Possible sentence: from 5 years to 10 years Court: Diyarbakır 11. High Criminal Court Case Background Ferhat Parlak, the owner of Silvan...

freeturkeyjournalists.ipi.media

I have no qualms about Lula or Erdogan going after the coup terrorists. Erdogan is after journalists and freedom of speech. If this forum was run by Erdogan, you would be banned and labeled a terrorist involved in some alphabet soup organization. Information and freedom of speech is one of the last thing the resistance has. Exposing the corruption of politicians and oligarchs. Erdogan going after dissidents and journalists is not democracy. There was a coup done with probable links to Washington. Since Washington had to have known about it, and the US failed to warn Erdogan, means Washington probably approved of the coup. The military that were part of the coup, not my problem. Journalists and freedom of speech is a global concern. Turkey is not a democracy. Sweden should be in NATO. Hopefully the Turkish elections in June provide Sweden its hope to join NATO.

Erdogan going after the military for coup is not in the same boat as trying to steal Greek Islands, land, ocean, economic zones, kidnap journalists.

 

[Foinikas]

Going after the military for a coup against Turkey is one thing.

Ah but here's the thing:

Who really deserved to be arrested and imprisoned? The core of high-ranking officers who planned the coup? All the officers under them too? All the soldiers who were just following orders?

Because there's a lot of footage where Turkish civilians grab poor conscripts and beat them or pull them out of the tanks and armored vehicles. I think some were lynched too?

Then the scenes of the police arresting soldiers.

Tens of thousands of military were arrested after the coup. It was Erdogan's chance to get rid of anyone he didn't like.

 

[zectech]

Ah but here's the thing:

Who really deserved to be arrested and imprisoned? The core of high-ranking officers who planned the coup? All the officers under them too? All the soldiers who were just following orders?

Because there's a lot of footage where Turkish civilians grab poor conscripts and beat them or pull them out of the tanks and armored vehicles. I think some were lynched too?

Then the scenes of the police arresting soldiers.

Tens of thousands of military were arrested after the coup. It was Erdogan's chance to get rid of anyone he didn't like.

The military did the coup. Typically those nations that are not aligned with Washington, especially in South America, have militaries that are used for coups against elected leaders. So I could care less about these elected leaders purging the entire ranks of the military that do not defend the elected leaders. Latin American leaders live in fear of their own military. Is that a democracy.?. Purge them.

Turkey is not a democracy because it attacks journalists and free speech. Going after the military, that is disloyal to elected officials and the constitution of that nation and loyal to foreign "governments", is democracy.

 

[Foinikas]

The military did the coup. Typically those nations that are not aligned with Washington, especially in South America, have militaries that are used for coups against elected leaders. So I could care less about these elected leaders purging the entire ranks of the military that do not defend the elected leaders. Latin American leaders live in fear of their own military. Is that a democracy.?. Purge them.

Turkey is not a democracy because it attacks journalists and free speech. Going after the military, that is disloyal to elected officials and the constitution of that nation and loyal to foreign "governments", is democracy.

Well first of all,Turkey has a history of coups and second a part of the military and the people were angry about Erdogan ruling for so long and finding excuses to change the constitution to stay in power even longer.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Right now - Erdogan's veto has some limited "practical" power in terms of his Veto and its affect on Sweden strategically. Yes - Turkey can delay or stop Sweden's entry into NATO - but can it or will it attempt to delay Finlands? Will it even dare to try and stop Finland ?

If both Finland and Norway are in NATO - then the security threat from Russia to Sweden goes down massively as Finland will have NATO protection and a land border attack on Sweden goes out of the window. That leaves the Russian Navy(rusting hulks they are - and lets not talk about old smokey...) and the Russian airforce (who cannot take on the Ukranian Airforce and beat them..) would have no chance against modernised Gripens operating under the Air-defence network of Russia, where Sweden have more experience of integrated aerial warfare with their datalinks and datafusion than anyone else right now.

Both Sweden and Finland have a defence pact with the UK aswell - so there are additional barriers to the Russians to over come before they can consider attacking Sweden.

So - Erdogan, is over playing his hand in practical terms as its impact to Sweden is not significant if Finland enters NATO successfully. Any Russian attack on Sweden will have to go via Finland - and right there - that is an attack on NATO.

Sweden can wait out Erdogan right now - and he will be forced to climb down.. it is obvious he is looking for political currency for himself to show back home how powerful he is and how "wins", rather than a practical diplomatic agreement to advance the interests of Turkieye as a whole.

I am not saying Turkey does not have a point. Turkey does have a point - but what he is asking for and doing - will be difficult for any democracy to agree to do "in the way he is doing it" - and instead should be using the opportunity to gain real "calibrated" long lived gains.

 

[BordoEnes]

 

[dBSPL]

On Dec 18, 2001: Ahmed Agiza & Muhammad Alzery were two Egyptian asylum-seekers who were deported to Egypt from Sweden apparently following a request from the USA. The deportations were carried out by the US military personnel on Swedish ground, with Swedish servicemen apparently as passive onlookers. According to Prime Minister Göran Persson, the USA would put a trade embargo on the European Union, if did not let the Americans pick up Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad al-Zery on Swedish soil.

Swedish PM & FM Anna Lindh had to choose between standing up for human rights and supporting trade relations with the US. They chose the latter in 2001 as they could not resist the pressure from NATO member. The two men were arrested on the Swedish streets & were driven to the airport within few hours & given over to a group of American & Egyptian personnel who flew them out of the country within minutes. No questions were asked! At that time, Sweden was not even trying to join NATO!

***

Today, the same Swedish state wants to join NATO, but is actively protecting and patronizing organizations that are actively engaged in terrorist activities with a country with which it will be allied.

On the one hand, there is the US, whatever they order, Sweden obeys unconditionally.

On the other side, there is their self-righteousness and inability of Sweden mindset, to accept Turkiye's much more legitimate and justified expectations. Once you get past blaberring of words and the pseudo-democratic posturing, all that remains is Sweden's pathetic behavior. With all due respect to the Swedish prime minister, no matter how much you cry, you will not be able to make any progress on this issue as long as you protecting terrorists.

 

[Oublious]

On Dec 18, 2001: Ahmed Agiza & Muhammad Alzery were two Egyptian asylum-seekers who were deported to Egypt from Sweden apparently following a request from the USA. The deportations were carried out by the US military personnel on Swedish ground, with Swedish servicemen apparently as passive onlookers. According to Prime Minister Göran Persson, the USA would put a trade embargo on the European Union, if did not let the Americans pick up Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad al-Zery on Swedish soil.

Swedish PM & FM Anna Lindh had to choose between standing up for human rights and supporting trade relations with the US. They chose the latter in 2001 as they could not resist the pressure from NATO member. The two men were arrested on the Swedish streets & were driven to the airport within few hours & given over to a group of American & Egyptian personnel who flew them out of the country within minutes. No questions were asked! At that time, Sweden was not even trying to join NATO!

***

Today, the same Swedish state wants to join NATO, but is actively protecting and patronizing organizations that are actively engaged in terrorist activities with a country with which it will be allied.

On the one hand, there is the US, whatever they order, Sweden obeys unconditionally.

On the other side, there is their self-righteousness and inability of Sweden mindset, to accept Turkiye's much more legitimate and justified expectations. Once you get past blaberring of words and the pseudo-democratic posturing, all that remains is Sweden's pathetic behavior. With all due respect to the Swedish prime minister, no matter how much you cry, you will not be able to make any progress on this issue as long as you protecting terrorists.

Thats a solid argument, @A.P. Richelieu why acting hypocrite against us when America order you to do so?

In other hand Sweden is playing 3 monkey against Turkey, but if we look in ther hatred against real assylum seeker. They send them away, but when it comes to Pkk and Feto they loving them. Why are Fetp and Pkk welcome and other assylum seeker not?

Idris' tale: Deported from Sweden to Sicily

Idris Hassan is an Iraqi Kurd. He arrived in Sicily in July 2022. Before that, he claims never to have been to Italy. He was living and working in Sweden, as a chef, before he was deported to Italy. His story is not the only case like this, say those who work at the reception center where he is...

www.infomigrants.net

 

[dBSPL]

Thats a solid argument, @A.P. Richelieu why acting hypocrite against us when America order you to do so?

In other hand Sweden is playing 3 monkey against Turkey, but if we look in ther hatred against real assylum seeker. They send them away, but when it comes to Pkk and Feto they loving them. Why are Fetp and Pkk welcome and other assylum seeker not?

Idris' tale: Deported from Sweden to Sicily

Idris Hassan is an Iraqi Kurd. He arrived in Sicily in July 2022. Before that, he claims never to have been to Italy. He was living and working in Sweden, as a chef, before he was deported to Italy. His story is not the only case like this, say those who work at the reception center where he is...

www.infomigrants.net

This is the mentality I am talking about, please read the news below. When you get to the root of these behavioral tendencies, you mostly find an orientalist arrogance that is actually racist reflexes, contemptuous of the east and cannot stomach negotiating even the slightest legitimate demand on equal terms.

Swedish professor punishes Turkish student over Sweden’s NATO bid​

• 13 HOURS AGO

A Turkish psychology student who applied for an internship at Stockholm University received a shocking response from one of its professors.​

A Stockholm University professor barred a Turkish student from attending an internship programme, claiming he cannot host her since Türkiye has been blocking Sweden’s entry into NATO.

TRT World was given access to the email sent by Professor Per Carlbring, who leads a clinical psychology research group at the university.

Fatma Zehra S., a third-year undergraduate studying in the Department of Psychology at Ibn Haldun University in Istanbul, was accepted by an Erasmus+ fund for a summer 2023 internship at a university of her choosing.

One of the internships she applied for was at Stockholm University in Sweden. In an email she sent on November 23, 2022, Fatma outlined her interest in being considered for a research project led by professor Carlbring.

A few hours later, Carlbring replied: “I would love to host you. However, since Turkey does not allow Sweden to join NATO, I have to decline. Sorry!”

“After getting this answer, I was simply shocked," Fatma tells TRT World. "It took me a long time to process it."

The email response Fatma received regarding her application from Professor Per Carlbring on November 23, 2022. (Fatma Zehra S.)

Finland and Sweden formally applied to join NATO in May, abandoning decades of military non-alignment, a decision spurred by Russia’s war against Ukraine.

But Türkiye – a NATO member for over 70 years – voiced objections, saying the two countries have been tolerating and supporting terrorist groups.

In June 2022, Türkiye and the two Nordic countries signed a memorandum at a NATO summit to address Ankara’s security concerns, paving the way for their eventual membership in the alliance. Seven months have passed since the signing of the memorandum and Sweden it yet to fulfill the agreed recommendations.

Fredrik Jonsson, head of the Department of Psychology at Stockholm University, tells TRT World in a statement that: “We receive many inquiries from students who are interested in visiting us as research interns. We are unable to receive them all, but expect that any request is responded to in a professional manner. In this case, as soon as we learnt about this issue we acted and have handled it according to our routines.”

Professor Carlbring did not respond to TRT World’s request for comment.

Fatma thought her experience could just be the “tip of the iceberg” and was serious enough to register a formal complaint. “If he did this to me, he would do this to other students with different racial backgrounds who apply to the university,” she says.

She proceeded to file a discrimination complaint report with the university on December 5, describing the professor’s response as being “based on political considerations” and “discriminatory if not completely racist”.
“Mixing a simple citizen and student – who wishes to pursue her studies in the best conditions possible – with the political stance of the government of the country she’s from, is an infamous way of thinking and judging one’s skills and character,” she wrote in her complaint.

Fatma Zehra S. filed a complaint report with Stockholm University, describing Professor Carlbring’s response being “based on political considerations” and “discriminatory if not completely racist.” (Gokhan Deniz / TRTWorld)

She received a response from the deputy head of the psychology department, Torun Lindholm Ojmyr, on December 6 apologising for the incident. Ojmyr claimed Professor Carlbring admitted that his behaviour was inappropriate and wrong, and that “several active measures are planned at the department going forward,” including “training on equal terms and the Swedish Discrimination Act”.

However, Fatma feels those statements don’t go far enough. “What I wanted them to do is to take active measures about his behaviour,” she said. Discrimination training is fine, but how can it be measured, she wondered, questioning whether it will be sufficient so that such incidents do not occur again in the future.

Nor has she received a formal apology from the professor directly. “At this point, I am hoping that he would send me an apology, but he has not, and I am disappointed about it.”

“I think this behaviour is childish, racist, and really inappropriate. I am mentally strong, but other students who have insecurities about applying to different programmes, will not be able to recover from such an answer.”

Despite the negative experience, Fatma says her application was accepted by a different professor in the psychology department at the same university, and she plans to go ahead with the internship this summer.

Relations between Türkiye and Sweden continue to be tense. New evidence of PKK and YPG terror supporters organising in the heart of the Swedish capital Stockholm emerged on January 12. Scores of terror supporters gathered outside the historical City Hall and raised anti-Türkiye slogans. They also hung an effigy of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, shouting racial slurs and making threats of violence against Türkiye.

Since the Swedish government has failed to crack down on the PKK/YPG safehouses, allowing their supporters to freely organise and conduct numerous anti-Türkiye and pro-terrorism demonstrations in the country, Ankara refuses to yield to such provocations and continues to hold its ground on barring a terror-friendly country from entering NATO.

Amidst this toxic environment, Turkish nationals in Sweden are feeling vulnerable to PKK/YPG attacks. According to Turkish Ambassador to Sweden Hakki Emre Yunt, the Turkish mission has been attacked several times in Stockholm and with every passing day the PKK/YPG supporters are getting emboldened to unleash more violence on Turkish assets and nationals living in the country.

The case of Fatma Zehra S is another addition to the rising intolerance Sweden has been displaying toward Türkiye.



Since then, Professor Carlbring has taken down his Twitter account, and there has not yet been any further communication from the professor or the university.

Swedish professor punishes Turkish student over Sweden’s NATO bid

A Turkish psychology student who applied for an internship at Stockholm University received a shocking response from one of its professors.

www.trtworld.com

 

[zectech]

Well first of all,Turkey has a history of coups and second a part of the military and the people were angry about Erdogan ruling for so long and finding excuses to change the constitution to stay in power even longer.

Then have the Turks vote out Erdogan. You do it with democracy. Couping your opponents opens a the door to them couping you. I am going to enjoy Erdogan losing in June. Getting popcorn ready. Sweden into NATO. If Turks cannot handle nationalism, then liberal Kemelists is better for Turkey.

Use some logic. Promoting LGBTQ and pro-minority and pro-liberty among oppressors is about the safety and security of you. You don't back a military coup. That is wrong. Turkey needs LGBTQ and so does Russia. This is a buffer from the spread of crazy totalitarians threatening global peace. If you cannot live in peace with conservative traditional values and instead threaten your neighbors; spread neo-liberalism to those dangerous conservative nations so they are no longer a danger to themselves and those around them.

Sweden needs to appeal to NATO about Turkey blocking them, Sweden is a democracy, not a colony of Turkey.

Those that have extradition treaties with the USA are defacto colonies of the USA, because political enemies of the USA can be kidnapped and sent back. A literal no-escape zone. Turkey wants this in Sweden, that journalists cannot escape Erdogan and flee to Sweden. We need less totalitarian regimes, not more. Turkey wants to go to the path of Russia and Trump. Read above, this is why Liberalism needs to be in the schools of these bad regimes, to reject authoritarianism, Liberalism is the defense against indoctrination of radical terrorists. If Russia was leftist - care about anybody, they would not invaded Ukraine. If Turkey was Liberal, they would want peace and reciprocity with Greece. Not simply the present situation of Turks: "Me! What I want! To heck with Greece and neighbors! Me! Nationalism!". For Turkish neighbors, dealing with caring gays and lesbians is preferable.

To outsmart your aggressive neighbors, you can use Liberalism to temper their quest to invade and burn your cities and villages.

Georgians get to be nationalist and traditionalist, because they are kind to neighbors and guests. Oppressors need to accept leftist caring ideology because these are a danger to themselves and those around. If Turkey is not man enough to want peace and civilization and no war, then Turkey needs to be leftist. Which is Kemelist, UK-owned. Not my problem.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

He's a spammer who avoids to reply serious questions and goes on tantrums about the superiority of Turkey. However,some mod or admin protects him or else he'd have flown a long time ago.

But Turkiye is superior to Greece.

That is the truth.

I could not agree more with @MMM-E

 

[Foinikas]

But Turkiye is superior to Greece.

That is the truth.

I could not agree more with @MMM-E

Of course you agree with him,your IQ is similar.