Here again you are wrong!
Ya the Army is very discipline but that doesn't mean that their seniors make them do 'wrong' things!
And yes in Army people do make their own decision!!
Thats how the Army works, military is all about "decision making"
No thats wrong. The soldiers don't make their own decisions. They do what they are told to do. Thats what discipline is. Thats why Army is organized, because there are no Ifs and Buts, its all "Yes Sir". And I am not contesting how army works, I am contesting why such decisions have been made on the instigations of the master in the west?
Would you like to define 'elite"
What do yiu mean by that!!!
do you think those 'elite' of yours are just elites because they were born with silver spoon in their mouth??
Dude they have earned it. And they not banks VPs and others who earn 6 figure salaries and spend a healthy wealthy life with their families for ever and enjoy their lives as if they are Kings.
I think you have some severe problems with comprehending english. The elite does not mean people born with silverspoon in their mouth. Check the meaning again of the elite. People who can be super poor, can get to elite positions and status. e.g. politicians, most of them became elite after super corruption.
Moreover I guess you haven't seen lives of retired/active Army elites have you that you are contesting they have no perks privileges etc.?
Many of the Army Officers ( to include Officers of other services) are "chosen". By this i mean they are selected through a very tough process. Had they been not in the Army i can assure you they would have been on other much better jobs as regards to pays and perks and privileges!!!
I also have many family and friends in Army, on very elite positions. I know how the selection is made. There's no tough process if you are get beyond colonel post (as much I have seen it), it's all politics. How good you are in politics and how excellently you can handle and execute orders and how many people you know. And talk about Perks and privileges, I guess you don't know how much privileges Army elite has? I guess you don't see all the latram patram provided to elite on duty and after retirement. (Tho I am not saying its not a good thing, I guess they deserve it, but you are posing them as they come out some sort of beggers from Army, which is incorrect).
But why would you care!! getting everything in your mouth, living and having a wonderful life, why would you think about that soldier who is sitting at 20000 Ms above the sea level and people like you are enjoying in Fortress Lahore, Jinnah Super in Islamabad or Tariq Road karachi!!,
You don't know me Enigma. I don't live in fortresses or Jinnah Super, or Islambad or Lahore or Karachi. I am from a small town, who had seen the worst from last 60 years. You should not be asserting things about others and make claims. Its irrational on your part.
or for that matter who thinks about soldier who is fighting in Wana and Swat and watching is comrades being killed on daily basis. He doesn't sleep well not because he is afraid but because he is awake so people like you can sleep!!
You didn't read my earlier comments I guess. Nobody is blaming the soldiers, but the people who are ordering them for such things. Why it is so hard for you to argue on intellectual bases than twisting and fabricating things on your own out of the context?
And dude there is NO elite in the Army. They all are f*** through out their youth and then reach the top brass just after being filtered, rubbed and polished through out their carrier.
Only if you knew what elite means. For you elite is someone who is born in a super rich family. I guess dictionary.com would do the trick to understand what Elite means and how does the word interpret in our official diaspora.
[/QUOTE]Oh wow!
i have now serious doubts that you are a Pakistani!
Please specify me some one who has been doing corruption! yes black sheep are always there, but it is 0ne in thousands![/QUOTE]
Oh now I am not even a Pakistani? very nice. Is that all you got to argue? shout and blame others by forcing your opinions? wow.
And wake up, the entire world knows how corruption works and how many corrupt officials we have in almost every institution. One in thousand... my foot. How old are you again?
And BTW, what kind of corruption can an Officer do..??
Depends on what the officer is doing. I guess you forgot military officers controlling public offices and budget in past 8 years? I guess you are telling me no corruption was done? If you arrogantly deny that, there's no contest. You win hands down if you think Pakistani officials are not corrupt.
Would he sell Artillery Shells to people like you who have not even seen an artillery gun, or would they sell DMS shoes which people like you usually make fun of, or would he sell Tank Ammo to people like you who dont even know their names, or would that officer sell the Ration of soldiers, which in total do not cost more than a few thousand rupees. Just tell me who idiot will do your so called corruption just for the sake of a few thousand bucks!!!???? and kick his 'rozi roti'.
No, not really that, you are just making no sense with this, maybe you don't know about our country and I doubt if you are a Pakistani or live in Pakistan?.
They make money off the civilian offices they control and the military budget along with weapons buying program, where they get huge kick backs. Again, I am not talking about soldiers, but the military elite, which controls the army.
And mind it i can name hundreds in the Army who are position holders in the pre-Army studies, had been doing jobs or had been studying in the elite colleges and universities of Pakistan. They just join the Army because of their motivation despite of the fact the Army has nothing to offer them execpt BLOOD, SWEAT and TOIL!!!
I love army, the powers drips from their every pour. No one in entire country can question what they are doing. They are beyond law. The uniform is so powerful, that makes one drool. I guess money is not everything at all, when rich people have that already. It's the power my friend, that makes the man head spin.
Wrong again!
BTW they will kick you if you will finger them!!!
Why would I finger them? why would I see them even? they belong to borders or barracks. Not in streets and government offices, where I had been seeing them for past 8 years alone, and making decisions for which they do not even qualify. Don't you know how coup de-etat works? Don't you know Army controlled every civilian office for past 8 years? Don't you know they made decisions for public that they were not qualified for? Thanks to General Kiyani, who made the perfect decision to take them out of civilians offices so civil society can grow again.
Well please it is a serious request can you recommedn me with a few option that the Army can do in order to prevent the drone attacks withoput putting the security of you people at stake. i'll be looking forward for your eply in this regards, and i'll pray that you raech the top brass of the govt to implement it.(please don't tell me stupid things which are NOT possible). Talking is easier than doing!!!
I am not a Military strategist. I know one thing, they are there to protect me, not destroy me or let others destroy me. I know I live ina country where people have honour, dignity and self respect, which had been ruined by these drone attacks, that the army is accompliced with. I know that the drone attacks on civilians are not for achieving terrorism shield, but to create civil war and creating gap between civilian society and Army, by stopping army from taking action, or they will stop the money on the army.
I know one thing, I don't live on my knees with my head in America's feet. I'd rather prefer dying on my feet. And I see that you don't support this notion, but I know large majority in Pakistan does. Hence our army must protect the dignity of the country.
America will come today or tomorrow with an open attack, mark my words. These attacks are preliminary actions. They already started hitting Bannu (a settled area for God's sake) and our army with all the foo faa, couldn't do anything. (I guess they have signed an agreement for letting americans kill their own citizens?)
And you have no idea how bad these attacks are. (not physical damage wise) but politically. It's very hard for us (pakistan lovers) to control the sentiments of the masses against these attacks. People are already questioning if Army can't protect them when drones are attacking, and when India threatened, the entire army was high alert on eastern border, then they think they are considered as second class getaway citizens, on which Army is making the money. People are already thinking that from west ameircans are hitting them and form east their own army.
Do you know what this can lead to? a civil war, which will give our enemies a chance to annex NWFP from Pakistan. In either cases, its a bad omen to not stop the drone attacks. If we can't militarily want to engage them, then we should stop supplies to them, call our ambassador (that 2# unelected guy) from america. We should lodge and international protest in the U.N. and then make a clear cut case to engage them militarily. Trust me, out military is capable of engaging America on the west.
We have loads of assets inside Afghanistan that will make their lives living hell. The entire western nation (our nation) will rise against them if Army decides to take on US, and then let us deal with them, we can deal with an emey better than anyone can think. Army will be free to engage on Eastern Border.
Did you forget, that when General Kiyani said, we will protect our soverignty at all costs, how did our tribes responded, they sworn to protect the border with their lives and chanted Pakistan Zindabad. The result - within hours another attack, by butchslapping out General's commitment to protect the soverighnty.
If we can't live with dignity, we don't deserve to live at all. Our reputation is at risk. People in entire world already calling us faggots. They are already saying Pak has no balls to protect its keep. You may be able to live with that, but I love my country and I can't see people passing such comments, when I know we have the capability to drill any intruder.
YES!! they will hit you from there where you would never expect, when you will ask for it!!!! Why were you mongering the other day that the Army is not doing 'much' to stop militancy!!
Idiot do you think the militancy will stop while initiating a request to the hardcore killers, who you are so afraid that you have ran away from your homes and sh** in your pants while sleeping when they chop off a head of someone!!! You really are lost!!!
So when you lose an argument, you start abusing others? I see what your family have taught you. I see the caliber already. I see why you are *****ing in your pants on drone attacks. That explains why you are so scared of other countries and want to live with your head on their feet.
NO! you don't pay them.
You pay taxes like every other citizen of any other country!!
BTW the ARMY Officers pay MORE taxes than YOU!!! i can bet on that !!!!!
The rule of tax is, you pay as much you earn. So if an Army officer is earning 10 times more than me, than of course he will have to pay more taxes, if he pays at all that is. We all know, its the poor citizens that gets to pay all the taxes, everyone else gets away with it by paying to the inspector. Hallelujah to the system we have.